[POLL] Removing planning mode

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vultraz
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[POLL] Removing planning mode

Post by vultraz » March 5th, 2016, 9:27 am

Hello, forum.

We (the dev team) are debating removing Planning Mode during the 1.13 cycle. There are a multitude of issues and crashes related to its use, and it's dubious just how useful it is to players anyway. However, we'd like to see how often you guys use it, and what your thoughts on its removal are.

If you would rather see it stay, what kinds of improvements would you like to see to make it more usable?

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Creator of Shadows of Deception (for 1.12) and co-creator of the Era of Chaos (for 1.12/1.13).
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Ravana
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Re: [POLL] Removing planning mode

Post by Ravana » March 5th, 2016, 9:47 am

I only ever activate planning mode in order to see my recruit menu while it isnt my turn.

Looking stats only, not actually doing any action.
Last edited by Ravana on April 13th, 2016, 8:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Dugi
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Re: [POLL] Removing planning mode

Post by Dugi » March 5th, 2016, 9:52 am

I haven't played competitively online much, but as far as I remember, most players there use it. Asking it on the forums is a bad idea, because most of these players don't visit the forums. Play a few ladder matches and see it for yourself instead of asking it here.

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Re: [POLL] Removing planning mode

Post by Ravana » March 5th, 2016, 10:00 am

Dugi wrote:I haven't played competitively online much, but as far as I remember, most players there use it.
Actually, given that planning mode gives oos messages(warnings, not real oos generally), people who happen to use it are usually quickly told to turn it off.

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Mint
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Re: [POLL] Removing planning mode

Post by Mint » March 5th, 2016, 10:16 am

Planning mode is rather broken when attack rounds begin, however it is very useful for planning efficient village grabbing, it speeds up the first couple of turns since players can move somewhat simultaneously, and you can find out if you're rebels or loyalists before it's your turn if you random a red mage leader. I'd be sad to see planning mode go since these things would no longer be possible.

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Dugi
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Re: [POLL] Removing planning mode

Post by Dugi » March 5th, 2016, 10:34 am

Ravana wrote:Actually, given that planning mode gives oos messages(warnings, not real oos generally), people who happen to use it are usually quickly told to turn it off.
This means that the problem isn't the planning mode itself, but the inability to fix the bugs related to it.

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Re: [POLL] Removing planning mode

Post by Eagle_11 » March 5th, 2016, 10:56 am

No plan survives first contact with the enemy, and i tend to act fast when its my turn, so planning mode isnt that much of an use to me.

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Re: [POLL] Removing planning mode

Post by Pentarctagon » March 5th, 2016, 11:18 am

Dugi wrote:
Ravana wrote:Actually, given that planning mode gives oos messages(warnings, not real oos generally), people who happen to use it are usually quickly told to turn it off.
This means that the problem isn't the planning mode itself, but the inability to fix the bugs related to it.
If I'm remembering correctly, a large part of that is due to Planning Mode being implemented as a Google Summer of Code project, after which the developer who wrote it left/disappeared.

So I think an equally important question is whether or not there's anyone willing and able to actually fix the existing bugs. If there isn't now, and there isn't ever likely to be, then it probably makes sense to remove it just so people don't try to use a feature that's already somewhat broken and essentially unmaintained.
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Dugi
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Re: [POLL] Removing planning mode

Post by Dugi » March 5th, 2016, 11:32 am

Eagle_11 wrote:No plan survives first contact with the enemy, and i tend to act fast when its my turn, so planning mode isnt that much of an use to me.
I have seen people use planning mode against me during the entire game, with devastating efficiency. The plan was adjusted a few times because of RNGod, but the corrections were small.
If I'm remembering correctly, a large part of that is due to Planning Mode being implemented as a Google Summer of Code project, after which the developer who wrote it left/disappeared.
So somebody has made a change that broke it and kept it secret. Have I complained about bad management on high ranks already...?

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Re: [POLL] Removing planning mode

Post by Pentarctagon » March 5th, 2016, 11:41 am

Dugi wrote:
If I'm remembering correctly, a large part of that is due to Planning Mode being implemented as a Google Summer of Code project, after which the developer who wrote it left/disappeared.
So somebody has made a change that broke it and kept it secret. Have I complained about bad management on high ranks already...?
Or, you know, somebody made a change which broke something else that person didn't use, and nobody noticed until quite a bit later when someone else reported it. If the development team frequently used this feature, I doubt we'd even being having this discussion in the first place. Plus, I mean, I could be wrong, but I don't think Wesnoth has a QA team to thoroughly test everything that goes in.

Also, the fact that something went wrong does not imply maliciousness or even any particular intent.
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tekelili
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Re: [POLL] Removing planning mode

Post by tekelili » March 5th, 2016, 1:42 pm

I voted "Never", but to be fair I also never used delayed shroud, so I am not "disapointed" with new feature.
Be aware English is not my first language and I could have explained bad myself using wrong or just invented words.
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Xara
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Re: [POLL] Removing planning mode

Post by Xara » March 5th, 2016, 1:51 pm

I feel that planning mode is just one bug away from being a pleasant feature. Nice as the feature is, it just isn't worthy of the trouble with the unpleasant OOS messages.
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Re: [POLL] Removing planning mode

Post by gfgtdf » March 5th, 2016, 7:43 pm

I think that planning mode is a useful feature and i would definiteley use it "a lot" if planning mode wouldnt have crashed my game already a few times.

"Delayed shroud updates" is is neigher less buggy (casues OOS) nor able to replace planning mode in the first place because most things where you'd use planning mode for are just not doable with dsu.
Actually i think removing dsu is a much better idea than dropping planning mode.

One of the main cases where is used planning mode in sp is to plan how to grab all near villages is as less as possible turns with my given units.
Scenario with Robots SP scenario (1.11/1.12), allows you to build your units with components, PYR No preperation turn 1.12 mp-mod that allows you to select your units immideately after the game begins.

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Re: [POLL] Removing planning mode

Post by pe_em » March 5th, 2016, 9:28 pm

Playing mostly multiplayer, I use planning mode usually to plan first recruitments and taking villages. This feature is also useful in team games because it helps you communicate with your ally. I'm really surprised that so many people don't use it, but it's certainly more popular among MP players.

I don't think that you should remove one of the main 1.10 changes only because of its bugs. As soon as they're repaired, planning mode will be a good feature. // Nevertheless, if you removed planning mode, I suppose that it wouldn't be a big problem for the players. It's just an option which improves game's quality a bit.

Velensk
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Re: [POLL] Removing planning mode

Post by Velensk » March 5th, 2016, 11:45 pm

I pretty much never use it but not because I didn't think it was useful. It was just a feature that was introduced after my habits were established.

That said, the only time I find it even remotely useful is at the very start of the game or when doing a clash style 2vs2 for a tournament or something. I would be in no way bothered by it's removal.

EDIT: @Dugi: wait a minute, how would you know that they're using it against you? You can't see it. If you were playing against an enemy team they might seem co-ordinated whether they use it or not?
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