Level 3 "criminal" units in the official game

Glowing Fish · Post by **Glowing Fish** » January 16th, 2005, 7:11 pm

I don't know if this poll has been run before, but it might be time to run it now...
For those who have playerd "Liberty", do you think the Level 3 versions of the Footpad, Poacher and Thug should be in the main game?
I will just give the poll two options, but feel free to leave comments explaining further why or why not.

scott · Post by **scott** » January 17th, 2005, 2:00 am

There is a philosophical reason why outlaws are limited to L2 in the main game.
I felt that for an outlaw campaign to be fun and to provide some tough challenges, you needed to be able to get some powerful units. The L3 outlaws are more caricatures or exaggerations on the outlaw concept. At one point (pre balancing) the Highwayman did more base damage than an Iron Mauler.
I think they should make it into the main distribution if more than 1 campaign starts using them. Then, you would need to do one of two things:
- modify the L2 outlaws to include an #ifdef USE_L3_OUTLAWS statement around the [advanceto] tag
- implement the [advancefrom] tag and add it to the L3 outlaws, including the appropriate #ifdef USE_L3_OUTLAWS statement

Otherwise I'm happy where they are. Any campaign designer is free to use them, but MP probably wouldn't be affected much either way (not too many L3's).

Post by **turin** » January 17th, 2005, 3:45 pm

scott wrote:I think they should make it into the main distribution if more than 1 campaign starts using them.

What do you mean by this? More than one UNOFFICIAL campaign? 2 already DO use it... i use them, you know.

Or more than one OFFICIAL campaign? That would be a hard feat, but i could see TROW using them... (it gets annoying fighting undead all the time while your only impact units can't get to third level)... and HTTT, though that's unlikely...

Elvish_Pillager · Post by **Elvish_Pillager** » January 17th, 2005, 3:48 pm

turin wrote:(it gets annoying fighting undead all the time while your only impact units can't get to third level)...

Except the Iron Maulers...

turin wrote:and HTTT, though that's unlikely...

I think it would be cool...

Post by **turin** » January 17th, 2005, 3:49 pm

Elvish Pillager wrote:
turin wrote:(it gets annoying fighting undead all the time while your only impact units can't get to third level)...
Except the Iron Maulers...

are only 3 units...

scott · Post by **scott** » January 17th, 2005, 5:17 pm

I didn't know you used the Highwayman. I was treating the shadow mages as a special case.

Post by **Sangel** » January 17th, 2005, 5:40 pm

My personal philosophy is that every unit should have three levels, save for the rare exceptions which get four. Whenever my unit levels up once and then stops, I feel slightly cheated.

Disto · Post by **Disto** » January 17th, 2005, 5:42 pm

Sangel wrote:My personal philosophy is that every unit should have three levels, save for the rare exceptions which get four. Whenever my unit levels up once and then stops, I feel slightly cheated.

I feel that when i am playing HttT and i can either get Horse Archer or Rider..

Post by **turin** » January 17th, 2005, 6:06 pm

Sangel wrote:My personal philosophy is that every unit should have three levels, save for the rare exceptions which get four. Whenever my unit levels up once and then stops, I feel slightly cheated.

Well, i would say this is only true for units with no branches. For, ex, the Lancer, if you level up a horseman and then get mad you can't level the lancer, its your own fault, because you could have picked knight. (did that make any sense?)

But if you don't have a choice when leveling, it is rather annoying when you have to stop at lvl 2..

Post by **Sangel** » January 17th, 2005, 6:28 pm

turin wrote: Well, i would say this is only true for units with no branches. For, ex, the Lancer, if you level up a horseman and then get mad you can't level the lancer, its your own fault, because you could have picked knight. (did that make any sense?)

But if you don't have a choice when leveling, it is rather annoying when you have to stop at lvl 2..

Having multiple branches, some of which go higher, definitely reduces this problem. However, I can't help but feel that trees are "unbalanced" when one branch stops earlier... hence the Royal Lancer avatar.

Elvish_Pillager · Post by **Elvish_Pillager** » January 17th, 2005, 6:38 pm

Sangel wrote:Royal Lancer

13-4 charge?

Mkgego · Post by **Mkgego** » January 17th, 2005, 6:59 pm

Should the Level 3 "criminal" units be in the main game?

Yes

MadMax · Post by **MadMax** » January 17th, 2005, 10:43 pm

scott wrote:I didn't know you used the Highwayman. I was treating the shadow mages as a special case.

I use the Highwayman in one scenario as a one-off unit, but I do not include the modified Bandit which levels up into the Highwayman.

AkitoScorpio · Post by **AkitoScorpio** » January 17th, 2005, 11:22 pm

Yeah theres actual units that while are good, I tend to not use because they stop at lvl 2 and I NEED to get lvl 3 units in the multiplay games because most of my friends play undead or Orcs.... while I lean towards loaylysts and undead.....

Glowing Fish · Post by **Glowing Fish** » January 19th, 2005, 6:46 pm

Sangel wrote: Whenever my unit levels up once and then stops, I feel slightly cheated.

?I don't feel cheated, but some of the biggest fun for me in the game is the thrill of getting units leveled. Especially in long campaigns, I like the thrill of building units up to high levels.