Most difficult campaigns?

[Noxos]

Mainline or otherwise... I don' t have time these days to play everything so I'd like something quite hard .

[beetlenaut]

SotBE was rebalanced for 1.11, and now it is much harder. You should give it a try. It is now the most difficult mainline campaign (IMO), but you will have to download 1.11 to play it.

[ChaosRider]

If you want hard campaign which you wont win in first try then you should go for Modified World Conquest (MWC 2 is same but a little easier, dont forget to download MWC Part 2 for units images). You can control there from 1 to 3 sides, but most hard its for 1 side team. Dont forget to set yes for bonus places! Its a newest change in MWC campaign (these bonus places can help also ai , but ai isnt enought smart to track it in each turn, if he use one of them then its only because it was between you and his unit or between village and his unit).

[tekelili]

I'd like something quite hard .

A friendly advise: You could want reformulate your question. Be aware an easy an extended way to become a campaign very difficult is reduce scenario turn limit to a point where you need a lot of luck with in RNG in order to kill enemy in time. May be you are not looking for such a "challenge". Pushing my point to absurd, most difficult campaign would be one imposible, and that would be Descent into Darkness, because it is infinite with no possible victory message

[SkyOne]

Some more info. : http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=38424
I guess what taptap said is right (for you) at the time.

Spoiler:

IMO, beetlenaut and Velensk create hard and good campaigns. Probably, doofus-01, too (BMR was hard when I played it on 1.4.x).

[Maiklas3000]

I second the nomination for Son of the Black Eye being the toughest mainline campaign now under 1.11. The campaign was tweaked by mattsc, whose design philosophy is to make nightmare difficulty actually be a nightmare.

Here are the difficulty ratings (1-10) I gave for the scenarios in the campaign:

Spoiler:

1. 7
2. 9
3. 8
4. Kobiyashi Maru
5. 9
6. 8
7. 8
8. 9.5
9. 7
10. 9.5 (to save Inarix)
11. 6 (to win, but also need gold and roster improvements, so maybe 8 )
12. 8
13. 8
14. 7 (but high variance with respect to your allied leader)
15. 9
16. 7
17. 9.5

Anytime I rate a scenario "9.5" or "Kobiyashi Maru", it means it held me up a long time or I could not beat it without save-loading or some other cheat. If you can beat the whole redesigned SotBE campaign on nightmare without save-loading (except to restart a scenario from start), then you are a better player than I. However, note that subsequently to my playing under 1.11.12 and 1.11.13, some scenarios were made slightly less difficult based on feedback.

[tekelili]

I second the nomination for Son of the Black Eye being the toughest mainline campaign now under 1.11. The campaign was tweaked by mattsc, whose design philosophy is to make nightmare difficulty actually be a nightmare.

In my first month after discover BfW, I enjoyed a lot SoBE in normal difficulty, due to large scale battle style. Some years later I revisited the campaign for nostalgia, playing it in Nightmare. I rolled over AI until I reached to the "save port" scenario (I think comes after defeat undead) and was unable to find out how the Hell beat scenario without insane savereload, due to a ridicolous low turn limit. I am curuious if this has been changed in 1.11 and I should give SotBE a new try.

[mattsc]

I second the nomination for Son of the Black Eye being the toughest mainline campaign now under 1.11. The campaign was tweaked by mattsc, whose design philosophy is to make nightmare difficulty actually be a nightmare.

Just to add to this, I didn't do this single-handedly but with contributions from lots of people, including a few very active and helpful play testers such as Maiklas3000. I just did most of the actual WML changes. Also, while it being a nightmare on nightmare difficulty was certainly one of the goals, we mostly wanted it to be "hard but still comfortably playable" without save-loading* for an expert player on normal difficulty. It was simply too easy to be called an expert campaign previously. What that means is, of course, highly subjective, but for me personally normal difficulty is at that level now.

I rolled over AI until I reached to the "save port" scenario (I think comes after defeat undead) and was unable to find out how the Hell beat scenario without insane savereload, due to a ridicolous low turn limit.

While most scenarios are supposed to be quite difficult now and the turn limit is tight in some of them, finishing in time is not meant to be the main challenge. If it comes down to needing luck on the last turn to get in the finishing blow, there's likely a different way to play the scenario to avoid that.

Having said that, the turn limit in some scenarios is supposed to force the player somewhat out of the comfort zone, making sitting back and waiting it out impossible and forcing one to be somewhat more aggressive than one might choose otherwise. If losing an L3 unit (or several) in a scenario takes the fun out of it for somebody, maybe this isn't the right campaign.

---

Footnote: * I'm not going to call that cheating because I personally don't consider it as such. IMO, everybody can play Wesnoth in any style they want, I don't mind or care one way or the other. (And I am not trying to say that anybody in this thread said otherwise, I am just clarifying my own position.)

[tekelili]

While most scenarios are supposed to be quite difficult now and the turn limit is tight in some of them, finishing in time is not meant to be the main challenge. If it comes down to needing luck on the last turn to get in the finishing blow, there's likely a different way to play the scenario to avoid that.

So... there is right now a way to beat save port scenario with average RNG in time?

[mattsc]

So... there is right now a way to beat save port scenario with average RNG in time?

Short answer: yes.

Long blathering answer: On normal difficulty, absolutely, I can vouch for that myself. I have played the entire campaign at least twice, and many scenarios quite a bit more often than that. And on nightmare difficulty, that holds true to the best of my knowledge as well. At least two people have played the entire campaign on that level and each scenario was won by at least one of them without needing/relying on luck, in most cases by both of them. We did a lot of tuning of the scenarios based on the feedback by Maiklas3000 and Theron to achieve just that. Just check out the feedback threads if you need details.

Btw, there are several scenarios which could qualify as the "save port scenario", but my reply is true for all scenarios, so it doesn't really mater which one you mean. Based on what you write, I assume you mean "Black Flag" (which, btw, is indeed won with luck and an unusual strategy in one of the posted replays, but there are other ways of doing it too).

[Maiklas3000]

So... there is right now a way to beat save port scenario with average RNG in time?

Do you mean SotBE: Black Flag? This is the scenario where enemy ships come in and unload a bunch of troops behind your lines, when you already were about to get overrun. On nightmare, it now has 22 turns (under 1.11), which is a reduction from the 24 before (1.8 to 1.10.) I think I finished on turn 18, but I'm not sure since the replay comes up corrupt. Someone one else finished on turn 17. I don't recall time being a problem here, just strategy and survival. There are a few different strategies you can use to beat this one, but basically I suggest focussing on the objectives, which is just to kill the two enemy leaders. Play all the previous scenarios with the goal of creating a couple of Direwolf Riders, in case you decide on the strategy of destroying some ships before they unload. I was able to do that under 1.9, but either I lost my touch or it's trickier under 1.11.

[mattsc]

Play all the previous scenarios with the goal of creating a couple of Direwolf Riders, in case you decide on the strategy of destroying some ships before they unload. I was able to do that under 1.9, but either I lost my touch or it's trickier under 1.11.

You have not lost you touch.

[ChaosRider]

If you dont like turns limits you can allways use debug mode to change turn number, but in MWC campaigns is prepared surprise for anyone who dare to play longer in each scenario than its set ...

[tekelili]

Do you mean SotBE: Black Flag?

Yea, that one.

Play all the previous scenarios with the goal of creating a couple of Direwolf Riders

I must confess I imagined that chance but really didnt try it. From my point of view was very boring invest several hours in previous scenarios just to discover I didnt focus xp staking on the right units to beat a scenario it was supossed I didnt have no clue about when I started campaign. (I am always talking about Nightmare level, btw)

[tekelili]

If you dont like turns limits you can allways use debug mode to change turn number

When I create a game, I invest work in do it at my best. When I play a game, I am not willing to invest work, I want to be pleased for other´s work. It is not so difficult to understand.