[Ask] Hierarchical Grand Campaign

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alungky
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Joined: September 14th, 2012, 11:47 am

[Ask] Hierarchical Grand Campaign

Post by alungky » March 1st, 2014, 10:04 am

Hi everyone,

Are there any MODs for Hierarchical Grand Campaign style?
If yes, please recommend me any. Otherwise, please read the following text.

I find most of BFW campaigns are story line based. Players have to follow pre-designed stories to play.
Of course it is great. However, how about give players more freedom since BFW has an inherent BIG MAP.

So another question is :
is that possible to add another layer such as Total War a BIG MAP layer.
On this BIG Map, there would be some clans with territories.... then you know what I mean.
The system can be very easy, the resource is gold. When a territory is under war, turn the game into battle layer, then everything can be similar to current battle style.
After finish the battle, turn back to the big map...

With this system, the strategy could be performed with more granularity at least 2 layers.
On the big map, there could be diplomatic relations, reinforcement, gold transportation, buildings for gold, elite troupes and so on....

What do you think?

thanks

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Dixie
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Re: [Ask] Hierarchical Grand Campaign

Post by Dixie » March 1st, 2014, 11:08 am

Well it COULD be possible... but it would be an awful lot of work. Especially if you wanted to have AIs integrated into this big-map thing...
Jazz is not dead, it just smells funny - Frank Zappa
Current projects: Internet meme Era, The Settlers of Wesnoth

Blarumyrran
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Re: [Ask] Hierarchical Grand Campaign

Post by Blarumyrran » March 1st, 2014, 1:36 pm

There are a few RPG campaigns that have an overland map for navigation between the (scripted) scenarios. Altaz Mariners and (partly) Bad Moon Rising are two.

Non-RPG campaigns, with unscripted scenarios, wouldn't work well because the "battles" would get very repetitive and boring. You'd have to design a game from the ground up with something like that in mind, to make the battles quick&interesting enough to be tolerable.

for example: Heroes of Might and Magic games have such small unscripted battle scenarios. The battle scenarios work a lot better than they would in Wesnoth, because
  • Battles (generally) only hurt units. By default the units cannot regain health, or "upgrade", during the battle. This gives a strong direction to the battle - there are very few rounds during which neither side gets hurt.
  • Attacks (generally) cannot "miss" - every attack causes damage. Again, it gives a strong direction to the battle - there are very few rounds during which neither side gets hurt.
  • There's no "terrain" in battles (outside of castle sieges), only "passable" and "impassable". It speeds things up.
among other things. (no need to nitpick about exceptions, I'm speaking generally)

And even then it's sort of too slow.

alungky
Posts: 6
Joined: September 14th, 2012, 11:47 am

Re: [Ask] Hierarchical Grand Campaign

Post by alungky » March 1st, 2014, 3:12 pm

Dixie wrote:Well it COULD be possible... but it would be an awful lot of work. Especially if you wanted to have AIs integrated into this big-map thing...
Yes, there would be a lot of work and a lot of unsure problems...
You are right that AI of the big map is very important.
To make it interesting may result in another game :doh:

alungky
Posts: 6
Joined: September 14th, 2012, 11:47 am

Re: [Ask] Hierarchical Grand Campaign

Post by alungky » March 1st, 2014, 3:25 pm

Blarumyrran wrote:There are a few RPG campaigns that have an overland map for navigation between the (scripted) scenarios. Altaz Mariners and (partly) Bad Moon Rising are two.

Non-RPG campaigns, with unscripted scenarios, wouldn't work well because the "battles" would get very repetitive and boring. You'd have to design a game from the ground up with something like that in mind, to make the battles quick&interesting enough to be tolerable.

for example: Heroes of Might and Magic games have such small unscripted battle scenarios. The battle scenarios work a lot better than they would in Wesnoth, because
  • Battles (generally) only hurt units. By default the units cannot regain health, or "upgrade", during the battle. This gives a strong direction to the battle - there are very few rounds during which neither side gets hurt.
  • Attacks (generally) cannot "miss" - every attack causes damage. Again, it gives a strong direction to the battle - there are very few rounds during which neither side gets hurt.
  • There's no "terrain" in battles (outside of castle sieges), only "passable" and "impassable". It speeds things up.
among other things. (no need to nitpick about exceptions, I'm speaking generally)

And even then it's sort of too slow.
I really like the key words "very repetitive and boring" and "quick&interesting" that let me remember something....
Sometimes I even find the battles in total war go too slow and last too long.
Sometimes I even find the battles in mount and blade boring because every turn player troops and enemy troops reset the starting points. (that's why there are some mods to deal with it).

You are right that "miss" , "upgrade"and "alive" are main gameplay features of BFW.
Balancing gameplay features are very important and hard.
As you mentioned Heroes of Might and Magic, this game simplified battle scenarios (compared with BFW) but introduced some big map gameplay features.
A good balancing between these two layers leads to good gameplay.

So, If there is a big map in BFW. Maybe the gameplay system should be redesigned.....

Thank you very much for the answer!
Anyway, I am going to try Altaz Mariners and Bad Moon Rising ;)

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