Necromancers vs Liches

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averyimaginativename
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Necromancers vs Liches

Post by averyimaginativename » August 18th, 2011, 5:44 pm

This must have been done before, but search isn't being very useful because of the high density of both words. Also, I'm not suggesting the necromancer is useless, just that I don't know how to use it properly.

When would you choose to level to a Necromancer instead of a Lich?

I can think of times when all the units are useful, except the Necromancer.

17-2 is more vulnerable to the RNG than 12-3. Same for the 9-3/12-2.

10hp isn't very much when the Lich gets drain to compensate.

The lich has stronger melee, compensated by the Necromancer's plague, but is it ever better to plague when that experience could be fed to non-levelled units?

Multiplayer balance isn't an issue - they're level three units.

The real differences are in the resistances. However, I've never found these to make enough of a difference in a campaign - by the time you've levelled either, you've got plenty of units to guard them anyway.

So, when should you choose a necromancer?
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Re: Necromancers vs Liches

Post by Max » August 18th, 2011, 6:01 pm


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Re: Necromancers vs Liches

Post by HomerJ » August 18th, 2011, 7:17 pm

The major difference of course is resistances. Facing impact/fire/arcane the necro has his uses.

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Re: Necromancers vs Liches

Post by Great_Mage_Atari » August 18th, 2011, 7:28 pm

If your the kind of person who likes lots of cheap cannon-fodder, the Necromancer is the obvious choice. As for power, the Lich reigns supreme.

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Re: Necromancers vs Liches

Post by Dunno » August 18th, 2011, 7:50 pm

Well, necro has plague, obviously. It is the only plague unit with decent damage.
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Re: Necromancers vs Liches

Post by hhyloc » August 19th, 2011, 2:14 am

I'll use Necromancer when facing an army consists mainly of Mage. Namely the A Small Favor Part 2 scenario in DiD. When you have to fight a lot of Red Mages and White Mages to get through.
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Re: Necromancers vs Liches

Post by powershot » August 19th, 2011, 3:30 am

Once in Local game I used a drakes, and no matter how many drakes I threw at their lich, he still beat me. I had to wait for some enemies(a dwarf and troll) to finish him off.

SO, Lichs against drakes= Lich dominance.
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Re: Necromancers vs Liches

Post by Rya » August 19th, 2011, 10:28 am

Yeah, the Level 3 Melee Saurians would need an Impact attack so the Drakes have a way to counter a Lich. But since that's high-level only, it's not a real issue for multiplayer.
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Re: Necromancers vs Liches

Post by Caphriel » August 19th, 2011, 1:16 pm

Disregarding for a moment that saurian skirmishers have a terrible life expectancy against undead, flankers are probably the most frequently seen level 3 units in multiplayer. The skirmisher line has pretty low experience requirements.

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Re: Necromancers vs Liches

Post by Velensk » August 19th, 2011, 1:51 pm

The gladiator line at day works fine against liches.
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Re: Necromancers vs Liches

Post by powershot » August 19th, 2011, 2:01 pm

I'm afraid not, a lich has drain for it's melee.
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Re: Necromancers vs Liches

Post by Great_Mage_Atari » August 19th, 2011, 2:07 pm

Velensk makes a good point. Gladiators have good resistances as-is, and during the daytime their spear attack is epic.

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Re: Necromancers vs Liches

Post by thespaceinvader » August 19th, 2011, 2:28 pm

Disregarding everything else but the comments about 17-2 being more vulnerable to the RNG than 12-3:

17-2 is more desirable when the enemy has between 12 and 17 HP left. You can take him out in a single successful hit, where it would take 2 with 12-3. Then, again, more valuable between 25 and 34 HP, when you could take out the enemy with two successful hits, but the 12-3 would require 3. Both large-damage low-frequency attacks and large-frequency low-damage attacks are valuable, but in different situations.
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Re: Necromancers vs Liches

Post by Caphriel » August 19th, 2011, 2:55 pm

powershot wrote:I'm afraid not, a lich has drain for it's melee.
Maths
At day, as specified:
Enforcer has 14-3 impact melee. Lich has 10% vulnerability to impact. Damage multiplier is 1.25*1.1 = 1.375, based on the thread on how damage is determined. So the Enforcer does 19 damage per hit. In retaliation, the lich has an 8-3 arcane melee attack that drains. Enforcer has 30% vulnerability to arcane. Damage multiplier is 0.75*1.3 = .975. So the lich does 8 damage per hit. Drain restores HP equal to half the damage dealt. So the lich takes 19 damage per hit taken, and gains 4 HP per hit landed. Now, the enforcer will probably have lower evade, but even giving the lich the benefit of the doubt, and putting it on castle while the enforcer is in shallow water, the expected damage is as follows:
Damage taken by lich = 19 damage per hit * 3 attacks * .4 chance to hit = 22.8
HP drained by lich = 4hp per hit * 3 attacks * .8 chance to hit = 9.6

For a more reasonable expected result, let's put them both on flat:
Damage taken by lich = 19 damage per hit * 3 attacks * .6 chance to hit = 34.2
HP drained by lich = 4hp per hit * 3 attacks * .7 chance to hit = 8.4
I could have made some errors, but the general result stands. I'm afraid the fact that the lich drains just isn't substantial enough to make a difference at day.

In the future, please don't make such claims unless you're reasonably sure you're correct :)

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Re: Necromancers vs Liches

Post by powershot » August 19th, 2011, 2:59 pm

Well, I didn't have any Wardens on hand. They're not exactly easy to upgrade. :|
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