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Such a shame

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Brunopolis
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Joined: March 12th, 2010, 9:13 pm

Such a shame

Post by Brunopolis »

I'm very impressed by the quality of this free game and how fun it can be to play. It reminds me of Advance Wars with a few elements of Fire Emblem. The Skirmish mode is great and is definitely the strong suit of this game.

Unfortunately, the campaign mode is a rather poor experience. For all intents and purposes it might as well be Fire Emblem regarding character death and the importance of leveling up units. It can easily get to the point where the game become absolutely impossible and this is a huge detraction to the game. At the end of the day the game becomes a save-load unit dancing experience where you keep trying to make sure unit X gets the killing blow. Personally, it absolutely ruins the experience and removes any kind of strategy from the game. Being in an impossible scenario where you didn't level up your units 3 levels back is rather ridiculous. At the end of the day the game stops being fun when you realize you have to replay half the campaign again due to mistakes done early.

I just wanted to end this by saying I won't really be touching any of the campaigns for precisely this reason. The game is designed around strategy but the campaign is completely devoid of this due to the level-fest currently present.

Save-Load trial and error game-play is rather lame so to reduce this I'd like to see 3 changes made to this otherwise great game.
1. Units gain experience only per attack rather than per kill. This way you don't save-load just to make sure unit X gets the finishing blow.
2. Dead units instead are "injured" and can be recalled the following mission. This also prevents the save-load frenzy as having one of your good units perish will only hurt you in that particular mission as opposed to every mission there-after.
3. Reduce or remove the gold carried over from one mission to the next. This is rather self-explanatory as doing poorly in the previous mission can lead to the next mission being impossible. This can force you to replay large amounts of the campaign all over again.

What I'm trying to say here is please make this game more like Advance Wars rather than Fire Emblem. Fire Emblem is a great game but I'd hardly call it a strategy game given the excessive focus on levels.
HomerJ
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Re: Such a shame

Post by HomerJ »

Oh look, it's this thread again.

Here is the deal. Take some time to dig into wml and it will be a breeze to tweak a campaign in the way you want (not sure about point 1, that might be hardcoded). Upload campaign and have people play it. If you convince 1% of players to like your campaign better I would be most impressed.

Anyway, welcome to the forums.

Greetz
HomerJ
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artisticdude
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Re: Such a shame

Post by artisticdude »

Brunopolis wrote:It reminds me of Advance Wars with a few elements of Fire Emblem.
Brunopolis wrote:What I'm trying to say here is please make this game more like Advance Wars rather than Fire Emblem. Fire Emblem is a great game but I'd hardly call it a strategy game given the excessive focus on levels.
:annoyed: Here we go again. Remember, Wesnoth is its own unique game. This isn't a free version of everyone's favorite commercial game(s), and every feature it has or lacks makes it the high-quality game it is. If the devs were to add or remove any feature(s) to suit the desires of each player, you'd end up with a massive piece of junkware (new word).
Brunopolis wrote:At the end of the day the game becomes a save-load unit dancing experience where you keep trying to make sure unit X gets the killing blow. Personally, it absolutely ruins the experience and removes any kind of strategy from the game.
That's not the common opinion in the community, unless I'm very much mistaken. The idea is to create a strategy for where and when you use your units. If you have to save-load in order to do this, there is something wrong with your strategy.
"I'm never wrong. One time I thought I was wrong, but I was mistaken."
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Devas
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Joined: April 22nd, 2009, 4:35 pm

Re: Such a shame

Post by Devas »

In my opinion, the problem comes from you, because a good player wouldn't have to reload at almost every turn. He would use the debug mode instead.
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King_Elendil
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Joined: February 26th, 2010, 4:54 am

Re: Such a shame

Post by King_Elendil »

A post like this has no positive outcome game-wise, and is your personal opinion, not exact fact. If you don't like the game, no one's forcing you to play it, so just keep these useless negative comments to yourself. Many good people volunteer a lot of time into making these campaigns fun and if you see something that could be changed to make the campaign a better experience, let someone know, or the better option is to change it yourself, don't just say that it's not a good game (which IMHO is not true).
That's not the common opinion in the community, unless I'm very much mistaken. The idea is to create a strategy for where and when you use your units. If you have to save-load in order to do this, there is something wrong with your strategy.
I have to agree here.
I'm finally admitting that this will be a very long (if not permanent) Wesbreak. Thank y'all for the great times, and may Wesnoth rise to become one of the most popular games on the planet.
HomerJ
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Re: Such a shame

Post by HomerJ »

Oooookaaay,
the newbie-bashing can stop now. Let's make a deal OP. Give campaigns another chance. Go for the wiki first and do some reading on the beginners stuff.
Start an easy campaign on the side (on easy difficulty), how about Tale of Two Brothers or Orcish Incursion. Restrict yourself to no saveloading. If you cannot beat a scenario go back to the wiki, get some more tips and try again. If you cannot finish any of the campaigns after a days work come back here and let us know.

Greetz
HomerJ
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King_Elendil
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Re: Such a shame

Post by King_Elendil »

Sorry if I seam like the Grinch! :lol2: I just got slightly offended at first, but it's no real big deal.
BTW welcome to the forums! :mrgreen:
I'm finally admitting that this will be a very long (if not permanent) Wesbreak. Thank y'all for the great times, and may Wesnoth rise to become one of the most popular games on the planet.
monochromatic
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Re: Such a shame

Post by monochromatic »

Brunopolis wrote:1. Units gain experience only per attack rather than per kill. This way you don't save-load just to make sure unit X gets the finishing blow.
The game actually does this, for every attack you gain xp according to the enemies level (i.e. attacking a lvl 1 unit gives you 1 xp, attacking a lvl 2 gives you 2, etc.).
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Captain_Wrathbow
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Re: Such a shame

Post by Captain_Wrathbow »

AOI is only easy until valley of trolls, regardless of the difficulty level you choose. :annoyed:

@Brunopolis: Welcome to the forums! :D
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chaoticwanderer
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Re: Such a shame

Post by chaoticwanderer »

Wesnoth is not an RPG. The biggest mistake early players make is trying to focus on leveling and advancing select few units, and getting overly protective of aforementioned units, not realizing they are only a means to an end. You do not get bonus points for having lots of leveled units/keeping as many as possible alive.

Save loading is unecessary (at all difficulty levels really, provided you are good enough) and, as you said, ruins the game. So...don't do it. If necessary, play at a lower difficulty level, or easier campaigns, at least till you get better.
The RNG helps those who help themselves.
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jaimeastorga2000
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Re: Such a shame

Post by jaimeastorga2000 »

OP, if you have trouble with the difficulty, I suggest you try to complete the campaigns in easy mode. If you still need to reload in order to finish scenarios and campaigns, all I can assume is that you are not a very good Wesnoth player. Wesnoth is actually more similar to AW than FE; you don't really need to level up the "right" units in order to win. It might make things easier if you have some recalls that are a better fit for the situation, but you should be able to win in almost any circumstance if you are good enough at maneuvering your fresh recruits; the veterans are there to make things easier, but as long as you have some which ones you have won't really be the make-or-break factor.

Are you able to beat the AI in skirmish mode in non-random 2P maps?
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Gambit
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Re: Such a shame

Post by Gambit »

I propose that this sign be added to the forums:
Image

90% of them in the "This game is really good but it has this minor flaw** that I would like fixed" category don't even reply back to our well thought out and helpful troll food. Or they respond negatively to you trying to help/explain things to them.
**And the flaw turns out to not be an actual flaw, but rather the posters lack of knowledge about how to play the game.

This is no particular offense to you Brunopolis. It is just a pattern that can be discerned by reading through the forums for threads like these.
Last edited by Gambit on March 13th, 2010, 3:15 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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King_Elendil
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Re: Such a shame

Post by King_Elendil »

I think that Gambit is right (as usual ;) ) and we should not feed the troll anymore.
I'm finally admitting that this will be a very long (if not permanent) Wesbreak. Thank y'all for the great times, and may Wesnoth rise to become one of the most popular games on the planet.
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Gambit
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Re: Such a shame

Post by Gambit »

Well it's just that these types of threads almost always turn into everyone giving some advice to the OP and then the OP rages on them for not instantly agreeing with him, or never returns.

I mean maybe Brunopolis will be different. But we don't need to waste our collective breath on three pages of advice before we find out.
HomerJ
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Re: Such a shame

Post by HomerJ »

Holy macaroni, that's a cute troll...

Greetz
HomerJ

Edit: For profanity, I guess... :hmm:
Last edited by HomerJ on March 13th, 2010, 7:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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