2vs2 etiquette - what to do if your partner is a moron?

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gorgolok
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2vs2 etiquette - what to do if your partner is a moron?

Post by gorgolok »

Pretty much what it says - I've been plaing Isar's on the main server, and I've seen thing no one should ever be forced to see (like an attack with 2 unsupported mages at night, where they could be reached by 5 enemy melee units, 40% defense terrain - against a fully healed skeleton, so the chance to kill was 0%). At what point do you go from giving well-meaning suggestions to calling your partner a moron, to calling him a moron in public chat, to writing public labels saying "My partner's a moron, flank him, kill him, I'd do it myself, but I can't attack him."

Games like this are extremely frustrating for pretty much everyone involved (except the moron, who'll blame failing to kill a unit with a 0% chance to kill on "bad luck"). It's not even a lot of fun for the opponent, sure, they might initially think "whee, a moron!", but the game will be anything but interesting, so they lose too. I have so far shied away from simply taking over a side, when the actions of the player clearly showed they couldn't beat the tutorial without the instructions. Is taking over in the interest of having a half-decent game permissible? I'm usually a nice person, but too many bad partners have left me at my wit's end.

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JW
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Re: 2vs2 etiquette - what to do if your partner is a moron?

Post by JW »

If you want to play with people you don't know you can screen for skill in advance.

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Re: 2vs2 etiquette - what to do if your partner is a moron?

Post by Yogibear »

gorgolok wrote:At what point do you go from giving well-meaning suggestions to calling your partner a moron, to calling him a moron in public chat, to writing public labels saying "My partner's a moron, flank him, kill him, I'd do it myself, but I can't attack him."
At no point. I might be old fashioned, but in my opinion calling someone a moron due to a lack of skill is arrogant and rude.

Some people put their expectations into the game title, like "... - only decent players". Admittedly, there are widespread opinions about the definitions of "decent" - as well as people joining your game without even taking the time to read.

But like JW said: You should try to make clear upfront what you seek for. After all, calling your partner a moron is not changing the frustrating experience in any way. Just giving reason for more trouble.
Smart persons learn out of their mistakes, wise persons learn out of others mistakes!

Yoyobuae
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Re: 2vs2 etiquette - what to do if your partner is a moron?

Post by Yoyobuae »

Playing Isar has very high chance of getting such players. Or in other terms:

Code: Select all

14-4 Isar's Cross
melee--noobish damage
magical,slows,poison
You're very likely to get hit, take a bad hit imediately, cripple your potential for a while and suffer the repercusions for quite a while (or the rest of the battle).

Personally, I have decided to avoid Isars just as much as I avoid DA at night and instead play 1v1 on grrr's Random default map sets. Its a far more enjoyable experience and better for learning.

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krotop
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Re: 2vs2 etiquette - what to do if your partner is a moron?

Post by krotop »

Advise him to play the tutorial and a bit of solo campain before joining the multiplayer server, because with his current level of gaming he is spoiling the fun of the other people and is likely to have a very unpleasant experience if they aren't tolerant with newcomers.
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Velensk
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Re: 2vs2 etiquette - what to do if your partner is a moron?

Post by Velensk »

Playing on larger 2vs2s helps, however play with people you know or be prepared to deal with a few incompitant players.
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Re: 2vs2 etiquette - what to do if your partner is a moron?

Post by Gambit »

Teach them!

I for one would want to know if I was holding someone back and would want to know what I could do better. Knowledge is not meant to be hoarded.

Give them orders if you have to. Odds are if they're playing a tbs they have some degree of intelligence no? They will remember your strategy in the future.

Caphriel
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Re: 2vs2 etiquette - what to do if your partner is a moron?

Post by Caphriel »

Stop playing Isars. That should reduce your absolute beginner partner ratio to more manageable levels. If you can, teach your ally. How are they going to get better if nobody explains what they're doing wrong, and why it's wrong?

Never, ever call someone a moron, publicly or privately. That's likely to just drive them away from the game. If you absolutely can't stand playing with them, apologize to your opponents and ask for a remake. Give control of your side to your ally and stay in the game. Explain to your opponents that your current ally is not up to par, but don't insult your current ally. Use words like "inexperienced" or "still learning," or maybe point out that he doesn't understand certain game mechanics, like time of day. Even leaving without saying anything is better than calling your ally a moron.

There are three basic kinds of newbie allies you can get. The best kind is the teachable newbie, who is usually a pleasure to play with even as you lose, because helping someone improve is a rewarding experience on its own. The uncommunicative newbie is a subset of the uncommunicative ally, and can be equally annoying to play with. He ignores everything you say and doesn't talk to you. Possibly, he doesn't speak your language. Then there's the steadfastly wrong newbie, who is playing wrong, believes he's playing right, and takes suggestions as criticisms and gets angry. This is the sort of ally I'd give control of my side to, so that he can't blame me when he loses. Calling him a moron isn't going to help, though. He's sure he knows what he's doing, and he has no reason to believe you know better.

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JW
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Re: 2vs2 etiquette - what to do if your partner is a moron?

Post by JW »

Gambit wrote:Teach them!

I for one would want to know if I was holding someone back and would want to know what I could do better. Knowledge is not meant to be hoarded.

Give them orders if you have to. Odds are if they're playing a tbs they have some degree of intelligence no? They will remember your strategy in the future.
"You are too commanding!!!" is one of my favorite quotes from an ally I tried to politely help by **asking** him why he charged at night with Loyalists.....

Mabuse
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Re: 2vs2 etiquette - what to do if your partner is a moron?

Post by Mabuse »

well, in my expierience it leads to nothing if you call your partner a moron or something, the game is ruined anyway ...

.. so i usually just quit and look for a better game :)
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Re: 2vs2 etiquette - what to do if your partner is a moron?

Post by StDrake »

if your partner turns out to be a Moron..ask him for an autograph or some free samples? I just remembered some funny guys named their rock band "Moron", my locan games magazine included their tunes on its dvd :)
what can i say - idiots can be sometimes made use of. try to make a meatshield out of him if possible.
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Re: 2vs2 etiquette - what to do if your partner is a moron?

Post by The Great Rings »

gorgolok wrote:Pretty much what it says - I've been plaing Isar's on the main server, and I've seen thing no one should ever be forced to see (like an attack with 2 unsupported mages at night, where they could be reached by 5 enemy melee units, 40% defense terrain - against a fully healed skeleton, so the chance to kill was 0%).
These things happen. Ask the guys from the Light Brigade.
At what point do you go from giving well-meaning suggestions to calling your partner a moron,
Never, if its simply a question of making mistakes. Now, if they ignore any advice and especially if they behave like a jerk, I might possibly respond, but then it would be for being a jackass, not for making mistakes. I'll second what Yogibear said here: people shouldn't be abused simply for being inexperienced. Everyone was new once, and I've been unfairly abused for simple lack of skill in games often enough that I should be able to empathize. As a matter of courtesy, I may also make a point of calling out a teammate's errors in team chat only, as opposed to where an opponent can see it. The point where I draw the line is when someone refuses to learn from their mistakes and instead becomes belligerent. Particularly if they start blaming me instead.
to calling him a moron in public chat, to writing public labels saying "My partner's a moron, flank him, kill him, I'd do it myself, but I can't attack him."
I wouldn't want to deliberately lose a game. At most, I would kick the other player, assume control of their forces, and hope the other side was cool with it. Or if I wasn't hosting and that wasn't an option, I would either play it through anyway on the off-chance of still winning, or if their behavior was truly repulsive, I would just quit.
Games like this are extremely frustrating for pretty much everyone involved (except the moron, who'll blame failing to kill a unit with a 0% chance to kill on "bad luck").
Trust me, I'm pretty sure its frusterating for them too. Sometimes they just won't admit it was their mistake.
It's not even a lot of fun for the opponent, sure, they might initially think "whee, a moron!", but the game will be anything but interesting, so they lose too.
Sometimes I don't mind a quick and easy win, especially if I'm short on time. :wink:
I have so far shied away from simply taking over a side, when the actions of the player clearly showed they couldn't beat the tutorial without the instructions. Is taking over in the interest of having a half-decent game permissible? I'm usually a nice person, but too many bad partners have left me at my wit's end.
If you're hosting you can do whatever you want, but personally I would usually not kick someone just for playing badly (if everyone does that how will they ever improve?) as opposed to being a jerk. Now, if a player's belligerent and rude beyond a certain degree, I would absolutely feel entitled to kick them, and if the other players had a problem with it for whatever reason, then I would just start a new game.
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Re: 2vs2 etiquette - what to do if your partner is a moron?

Post by Caphriel »

JW wrote:"You are too commanding!!!" is one of my favorite quotes from an ally I tried to politely help by **asking** him why he charged at night with Loyalists.....
This thread is now derailed into Bad Ally stories.

My worst was probably a guy who was recruiting HI and mages, mostly HI against a player who picked drakes. When I asked him why, he replied that they're the most durable unit and best damage dealing unit the Loyalists have. When I tried to explain about resistances, and why he was going to get creamed, he repeated what he had said with caps lock on. When I tried again to explain after a couple fighters and a burner mauled half his army, he said "HEAVY INFANTRY = INVINCIBLE ARMOR" and recruited another one, despite my repeated pleas that he switch to spearmen and bowmen. He spent the entire game telling me that bowmen were worse than mages and spearmen worse than HI in every way, and that HI could beat everything, despite the fact that I stopped messaging him after the invincible armor bit. That and complaining about how his enemy kept running away and then ganging up on his units when he pursued, instead of throwing his units at the wall of HI.

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Re: 2vs2 etiquette - what to do if your partner is a moron?

Post by Gambit »

Caphriel wrote:
JW wrote:"You are too commanding!!!" is one of my favorite quotes from an ally I tried to politely help by **asking** him why he charged at night with Loyalists.....
This thread is now derailed into Bad Ally stories.

My worst was probably a guy who was recruiting HI and mages, mostly HI against a player who picked drakes. When I asked him why, he replied that they're the most durable unit and best damage dealing unit the Loyalists have. When I tried to explain about resistances, and why he was going to get creamed, he repeated what he had said with caps lock on. When I tried again to explain after a couple fighters and a burner mauled half his army, he said "HEAVY INFANTRY = INVINCIBLE ARMOR" and recruited another one, despite my repeated pleas that he switch to spearmen and bowmen. He spent the entire game telling me that bowmen were worse than mages and spearmen worse than HI in every way, and that HI could beat everything, despite the fact that I stopped messaging him after the invincible armor bit. That and complaining about how his enemy kept running away and then ganging up on his units when he pursued, instead of throwing his units at the wall of HI.
Yeah I'm really sorry about that. But I'm a changed player since that match.
LOL just kidding.
I don't know enough about this game to judge other people, having just recently factored resists into my strategies.

The part about running away and then ganging up on him XD Let me guess, it was night time :P

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Kalajel
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Re: 2vs2 etiquette - what to do if your partner is a moron?

Post by Kalajel »

Caphriel wrote:When I tried again to explain after a couple fighters and a burner mauled half his army, he said "HEAVY INFANTRY = INVINCIBLE ARMOR"
lol yeah, so invincible that half the army got killed by a few fighters and a burner… :roll: :lol2:

I agree with your earlier classification of newbies, but frankly, if the guy fits in the third category, he deserves whatever name calling you can come up with…

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