Rumble is cool!

[kard_]

I would like to hear opinions about Frezycus' invention the royal rumble maps tourney and classic. Feel free to discuss everything connected with this scenario.

[Velensk]

Since you asked.

Not my kind of thing.

[The1exile]

It's nice for a bit of relief from time to time. I can see why the strategists in the audience aren't thrilled, though.

[Caphriel]

Not my cup of tea, and honestly the entire genre of single-unit scenarios or few-unit scenarios annoys me for some reason. Wesnoth is not an RPG, but so many UM scenarios try to force it to be one. I hate joining the server and seeing a dozen Colosseum games, a bunch of other assorted survival games, a couple brawl-type maps, and one or two normal games. Call me elitist, but I like Wesnoth for its depth of strategy, not for the cool level 3 and 4 units that most of these scenarios seem designed to let players throw around.

[Pentarctagon]

IMO, i don't see why so many ppl seem to like the rumble maps as they are very often extremely one sided in the favor of whoever goes first. i do enjoy colloseum though (ulfs with 1000+ hp, need i say more ), plus almost any other survival that let's you recruit units, especially if you have to cooperate with an ally to survive.

[silent]

Rumble does have some strategy associated, but I think of it as a different type of strategy.

The 3 powerups you have the option of selecting beforehand can lead to different strategies. You can make a leader near-invincible, or a gold producing machine, or several other ideas.

And the only time it really favours the first player is when there is such an obvious disadvantage in leaders. (e.g player one is a dark sorcerer and player 2 a sky drake).

But I also agree that 1 vs 1 is pretty good, and unfortunately in short supply if your not a ladder player

[Pentarctagon]

it can potentially favor the first player every time, just get the +25 gold and then recruit a bunch of units around player 2 (or any player). your units will attack first, and he can't recruit any1 to block them since he recruits second. this is a problem for the tournament map in particular since there are no other players to threaten the leader of the 1st player.

[Orin]

In a 6 way free for all though, you don't want to be the one getting the early advantage. Unless the other four players are blind.

Charisma+midas is plain broken late game though.

[Aethaeryn]

There are two problems from really tiny maps like rumbles:

(1) They're really easy to make. I could probably make multiple ones in a half hour.
(2) They take a really long time to play due to the number of players (usually with no timer). A 1v1 on Hamlets might actually go faster.

People think small maps make faster games. In reality, timers make faster games.

[Araja]

Wesnoth is not an RPG, but so many UM scenarios try to force it to be one. I hate joining the server and seeing a dozen Colosseum games, a bunch of other assorted survival games, a couple brawl-type maps, and one or two normal games. Call me elitist, but I like Wesnoth for its depth of strategy, not for the cool level 3 and 4 units that most of these scenarios seem designed to let players throw around.

Elitist!
The saying "Wesnoth is not an RPG" has clearly not been introduced to how popular and awesome the RPG element is.
I myself only play the RPG's, because I'm an FPS player be default, and even though I love Wesnoth I'm simply unable of co-coordinating my actions on a large scale.
So for me, and I'm sure many others, the RPG's let you play Wesnoth without needing the mind of a chessplayer

[kard_]

Aethaeryn i do not agree with you that rumbles take long - no dude rumbles are one of the few maps with 6 players that end rather quickly and are fun to play if you know the rules such as how to activate items to build a strategy as silent said in order to win and similar stuff.

[Aethaeryn]

Aethaeryn i do not agree with you that rumbles take long - no dude rumbles are one of the few maps with 6 players that end rather quickly and are fun to play if you know the rules such as how to activate items to build a strategy as silent said in order to win and similar stuff.

One rumble map is not every "rumble" style map. They've been around since at least 1.2. Most "rumbles" are very minimalist without even items.

Elitist!
The saying "Wesnoth is not an RPG" has clearly not been introduced to how popular and awesome the RPG element is.
I myself only play the RPG's, because I'm an FPS player be default, and even though I love Wesnoth I'm simply unable of co-coordinating my actions on a large scale.
So for me, and I'm sure many others, the RPG's let you play Wesnoth without needing the mind of a chessplayer

Now, this is an elitist statement: just because you control one character doesn't make it an RPG. I'd only call certain one-unit-scenarios true RPGs, and about half of them are made by Bob the Mighty.

Survival Xtreme is not an RPG, it is a map where you control one unit and buy a lot of stuff at a shop. There's very minimal story, very minimal use of items, etc.

In fact, I don't see why an "RPG" style map couldn't have you control a party, with several units per player. After all, non-Wesnoth RPGs frequently involve parties of units. (If you play Wesband alone, for instance, you get three units if you get the maximum two henchmen.)

[Yoyobuae]

Well, mainline content does go in the direction of "strategy game". But even then there are some minimal "RPG" element, with unit levels, pick units with good traits.

I guess RPG isn't the right term, "character power up" would be better, perhaps.

Frankly, Wesnoth is a pretty vast game. It has great MP (the only thing I play). There's the mainline campaigns, which allow build up an army of lv2-3-4 units and keep them for several scenarios (from what I've heard, I haven't played any campaigns). There's also user made campaigns that manage to turn the usual style of play upside down, nearly.

A player can like any one of these "areas" of Wesnoth and never look into the others. Not that it is a bad thing, since everyone can play just what they like best.

[cool evil]

Rumbles are indeed a nice diversion from the normal wesnoth gameplay. The fact that it has a smaller map does not mean that there's any significant disadvantages for later players.

Strategies used in Rumble games all have counters, i'll just say a couple:

- Being the first to recruit units also means that you'll be recruiting blindly and can't effectively use your pawns if your opponent(s) decide to recruit units that are tactically superior to yours. (eg, skeleton vs spearman)

- Recruiting a wall of units around enemy leaders may provoke them to do the same to you, while also detracting from your ability to protect your leader since your soldiers aren't near you.

I still prefer the old lava/cave Rumble maps but i guess colosseum is fine too. The certain micromanaging factor in the latter doesn't sit well with me since wesnoth isn't your traditional TBS game that has building deployment or unit upgrades.

[Sapient]

I still prefer the old lava/cave Rumble maps but i guess colosseum is fine too.

Thanks, cool evil. I put a lot of thought into the Royal Rumble LavaVillage to keep things as fair as possible while keeping it as crazy as possible.

Specifically, the 25 gold start limit was hard-coded to specifically prevent you from abusing your initial recruit to hem in the other leaders. If you try to do that, you leave your own leader very exposed to the player who goes last.

Another important factor is that once your leader dies, all his minions must be cleared off the map. This is crucial because players who have 0% chance of winning should not be allowed to decide the final outcome for the other players.