Citizens!

[kshinji]

I can't change myself so much, so i'll begin with this:

and what their names are

except for poeple kike Toms or kjinshi

@tomsik
People are probably tired of newbies, who does not understand the purpose of the forum. But i think the newbies like LoW understand the forum really well - it is no longer just for discussing Wesnothrelated things, and its you guys, those who were first here, who changed the climate of the forum. Newbies see it, but they make a small mistake. You post and sometime spam, they spam and sometimes post.

It's not a joke - really, the climate of forum seems unrestrictive. I'd say people who are atracted by this, are weirds and nerds. Weirds are You, yes Nerds are those, who don't understand your jokes, debates, etc, but post. Weird guy discusses strange (for other ppl) things, nerd just opens a topic, reads, and posts. If his post gets unswered, the topic will heat up, after 3,4 posts of nerd, topic becomes flamewar.

Oh, and its possible to be both nerd and weird . Oh, and id say people grow out from being nerd. At least i hope to.

@JW: well, the problem is forum turned into new Age. Wesnoth becomes popular, people come here, and the forum might quickly become a copy of open tibia servers forum. Even now, reading some of topics becomes tiring. You might say one does not need to read all the topics, can just ignore some. But it's not true, existance of spammers and newbies annoys and frustrates so much, that people might avoid visiting forum.

@turin: omg, decadence? where? on the internet forum? explain please :>

@Darth Fool
The thing about power, which you said... impressive. I always found your posts very meaningful, creative.

The "keep smiling" thing of USA is being so much hated by European media, but i don't know why. Sharing frustrations multiplies it.

@tsr i guess loging is made on _SESSION, so its surely impossible. Well, possible, but from the other end. Http servers should somehow allow browsers to add additional id when sending request, and to each id the other sessionid would be attached.

Oh, and the moderator acount...

It just sounds to me like Reliance Phones, or how you call them in your countires.

[Kestenvarn]

Reliance Phones

I don't know what that is, but anything involving phones can't be good.

[kshinji]

I forgot to autocritisice.

I am probably a part of "noise". But its unavoidable, because forums consists of mature and immature members. Mature know their goals, and immature does not.

Mature use forum as a tool to do something.

Immature, like me, posts "because its fun".

The less fun you make on the forum, the less immature people will come. Sad but true.

[Tux2B]

I don't think it is that bad.
First of all, newbies, even annoying ones (like I admit I can have been when I began posting here), can either become better (I'm not pretending I did, but others did) or leave (which also happens quite often).
I think that there here is some kind of "third generation" of Wesnothians phenomena. If you look at some forums like the GalaxyMage one or the Spacenoth ones, you'll see that there are very few people, and that those who are there are all very interested in the project, and most of them are contributing in some ways. But there are no OT things, no flame wars : a real community really have to be built yet. Second generation is like what we had until about one year ago : some veterans began leaving (like Circon), and the first annoying newbies arrived, + those who wanted to contribute but didn't really know enough stuff to do it well and finally stopped wanting to because they saw that they had no chance because things were nearly profesional (like me). But there was a community, a good OT, a lot of features that yet had to be tried out, the perspective of version 1, etc... And now we have a third generation phenomena. OT doesn't contain as many flamewars as it used to, and most topics have been discussed (like the God topic). Veterans like scott leave, and others don't bother anymore in participating to the community : they just want to make things done. Those who still participate are getting problems with real life, taking them away from their hobby : Wesnoth. And now there is a new generation of big posters (JW, Toms, kshinji (I got it right, this time : copy paste)) who didn't know how it used to be when didn't have to explain all the meanings of acronyms like BFW, SoE, SotBE, RIPLIB, AMLA etc... This has most of all been true since the last 6 months, and I saw it evolving even more between the time I went to Corsica and the time I had Internet again (1 month between the two) in August.

I suppose this is temporary, though. I think that there will still be some kind of community, but with the consequences of already having a good finished product, version 1, and a vaste community.

Personnaly, I don't even bother to read all the threads anymore. Some are too technical for me, and it would take me ages to read a thread in English, while I'd know I can't say anything relevant about what is being said, and that I don't have the necessary skills. Then there are those threads you get tired of, because it is ability proposal number 999989 or because it is someone that is saying, once more : I have a new Europe map! It is bigger than the previous one that is better than mine, but I can do it too! (which doesn't mean that it isn't good to have those kind of maps, but it's just boring after the 100st time).

[Baufo]

I think it is a question about quantity and quality. Since the game and the graphics become better and better it attracs more people. Not only nice people who try to constribute to the community but also just "players". Most forum people are either the developers themselves have at least done some WML tricks for campaigns, factions, ...; I think the difference between this and other forums is that here basically everybody knows everybody. This makes some kind of "small town atmosphere" which will be gone once these forums are flooded with "Is this a good stratey?" topics*.


*) With "Is this a good stratey" topics I mean topics started by postcount <10 people (who will leave after a few such topics) and answered by "I am no expert but it is cool to give advices" people. Such topics can be found in nearly every commercial game's forums and are usually the main part of the posts there.

[kshinji]

This is important problem Baufo. I can't find any good way myself. I think it would be nice to disable some abilities of newbies, like making topics or posting in Development (open), and add status f non-newbie but non-fregular, who could. But as you might see if you try yourself, its hard to decide what should newbie be restricted to do.

Maybe just it should be stated that it's development forum, and anyone who breaks a rule no.1 (you shouldnt post stupid things unless you get status of non-newbie) would be banned (account, not person, at first time, or for short period ip).

Hard dilemma, but you need to decide.

[Baufo]

Hmm restrictions?
It might make it even worse. What if a great person with superior, useful skills can't constribute just because he can't visit the right forums with his postcount >100 (or whatever else you want to chose as a condition)?

[kshinji]

I mean, restriction would only be attached to new people, and they would be removed by getting status of nonnewbie just like forum regualar. This would be filter to remove people, who are not interested in developing.

[Darth Fool]

I mean, restriction would only be attached to new people, and they would be removed by getting status of nonnewbie just like forum regualar. This would be filter to remove people, who are not interested in developing.

Well, this is the basic idea of the splitting the restricted forums and the open forums. People who have proven to be mature members of the community are granted forum member status and allowed more powerful board access. This recognizes the contribution to the community of people who behave responsibly on the BB, even if they are not contributing directly to the game.

[Ken_Oh]

Hey, guys.

kshinji, I don't think any more restrictions are a good thing. It doesn't take any time at all for some people contribute. For example, sparr's 6th post was his contribution of the [map] bbcode tags, and now look at him. He's got a phat "Code & WML Contributor" title. Now, 4 out of his 5 first posts were in Dev (Open), just simple new-commer feedback/question posts. No way to tell for sure, but do you think he would have ended up contributing so much if he was barred from simple discussion from the start?

What we have now, like Darth said, is enough.

I think some of you may remember my griping about attitudes of the Ideas forum. As we found out, the Ideas forum is, by design, useless, but it's a healthy waste of time, since it builds knowledge of the game and connects players.

This may be cliche, but today's newbies are indeed tomorrow's vets.

[Tux2B]

Agreed. More restrictions would be bad.

[kshinji]

Okay, then just ban people faster, and remove topics more often.

[Tomsik]

Okay, then just ban people faster, and remove topics more often.

Such statements in your post look strange.

[Baufo]

(...)people are not as helpful, making personal attacks, being arrogant, using heavy sarcasm without need (...)

Okay, then just ban people faster, and remove topics more often.

Such statements in your post look strange.

[kshinji]

lol, Tomsik, you know i wanna change :p