Serious PROBLEMS
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Serious PROBLEMS
Drakes
-every single one of their units have extreme cold weakness, even the saurians
(undead pwnz drakes, elf sorcs pwn drakes, saurians pwn drakes)
-most units have that annoying pierce weakness
(loyalists can just spam spearmen against drakes)
-the defense % of drakes and saurians are both insufficient, drakes should have 50% on terrain types like mountains or villages, and saurians should have 70% on certain terrain types... that way those units can actually stand and fight without having to fear getting pwned next turn
-a resilient gobbo has more hp than a saurian, a WC has more hp than a quick,intelligent tribalist; saurians die very easily,
to make it worse they cost more than spearmen and elf fighters...
who can pwn them in 1 vs 1
Undead
-Lack water combat units
loyalists have mermen, elves have mermen hunters, orcs have nagas, drakes can fly, and dwarves have gryffons...
i dont understand why the bats cost 13 and have less hp than a WC
-no traits, and nothing to compensate for that
(immunity to poison and submerge isnt that useful compared to resilient)
Dwarves
-lacks fire/cold units, it is annoying when you have ot use dwarves against units like heavy infantry and woses
-no leadership
Orcs
-the fire arrows of the archer is insufficient
Loyalists
-melee attack of bowmen is too strong
-every single one of their units have extreme cold weakness, even the saurians
(undead pwnz drakes, elf sorcs pwn drakes, saurians pwn drakes)
-most units have that annoying pierce weakness
(loyalists can just spam spearmen against drakes)
-the defense % of drakes and saurians are both insufficient, drakes should have 50% on terrain types like mountains or villages, and saurians should have 70% on certain terrain types... that way those units can actually stand and fight without having to fear getting pwned next turn
-a resilient gobbo has more hp than a saurian, a WC has more hp than a quick,intelligent tribalist; saurians die very easily,
to make it worse they cost more than spearmen and elf fighters...
who can pwn them in 1 vs 1
Undead
-Lack water combat units
loyalists have mermen, elves have mermen hunters, orcs have nagas, drakes can fly, and dwarves have gryffons...
i dont understand why the bats cost 13 and have less hp than a WC
-no traits, and nothing to compensate for that
(immunity to poison and submerge isnt that useful compared to resilient)
Dwarves
-lacks fire/cold units, it is annoying when you have ot use dwarves against units like heavy infantry and woses
-no leadership
Orcs
-the fire arrows of the archer is insufficient
Loyalists
-melee attack of bowmen is too strong
"Quantity has a quality of its own" Joesph Stalin
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You've basically pointed out the weaknesses of the races.
Drakes are like they are because they are oh so powerful. Keep your recruits clumped together and heal often to win. Suarians are weak because they are scouts and healers. Healers shouldn't engage in combat so their health is not a problem. You shouldn't be attacking with suarians unless its night and your in swamps. Skirmisher is very useful for retreating. Drakes are weak to cold so that against drakes you have an advantage, and to compensate for the fact that firebreath can pwn humans and undead.
Undead aren't meant to be in 1 vs. 1 fights. More like 50 vs. 1 fights. that's why their units are weak, the bat has drain and 50% defence on all terrain AND it flies, just like ghosts so combat focuses on not getting hit. Bat are also scouts so they shouldn't be in combat either
Dwarves have HUGE resistance against everything so offence isn't their strong point
Orcs are terrible, just don't use them
Loyalists have sub-par archers, so the melee attack is fine
Wesnoth took quite a while to make so the developers feel it is quite balanced and would have fixed what you adressed if it actually was a problem
Drakes are like they are because they are oh so powerful. Keep your recruits clumped together and heal often to win. Suarians are weak because they are scouts and healers. Healers shouldn't engage in combat so their health is not a problem. You shouldn't be attacking with suarians unless its night and your in swamps. Skirmisher is very useful for retreating. Drakes are weak to cold so that against drakes you have an advantage, and to compensate for the fact that firebreath can pwn humans and undead.
Undead aren't meant to be in 1 vs. 1 fights. More like 50 vs. 1 fights. that's why their units are weak, the bat has drain and 50% defence on all terrain AND it flies, just like ghosts so combat focuses on not getting hit. Bat are also scouts so they shouldn't be in combat either
Dwarves have HUGE resistance against everything so offence isn't their strong point
Orcs are terrible, just don't use them
Loyalists have sub-par archers, so the melee attack is fine
Wesnoth took quite a while to make so the developers feel it is quite balanced and would have fixed what you adressed if it actually was a problem
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Lets play a game you use drakes and i'll use undead... then you'll understand the seriousness of these problemsDragon Master wrote:You've basically pointed out the weaknesses of the races.
Drakes are like they are because they are oh so powerful. Keep your recruits clumped together and heal often to win. Suarians are weak because they are scouts and healers. Healers shouldn't engage in combat so their health is not a problem. You shouldn't be attacking with suarians unless its night and your in swamps. Skirmisher is very useful for retreating. Drakes are weak to cold so that against drakes you have an advantage, and to compensate for the fact that firebreath can pwn humans and undead.
Undead aren't meant to be in 1 vs. 1 fights. More like 50 vs. 1 fights. that's why their units are weak, the bat has drain and 50% defence on all terrain AND it flies, just like ghosts so combat focuses on not getting hit. Bat are also scouts so they shouldn't be in combat either
Dwarves have HUGE resistance against everything so offence isn't their strong point
Orcs are terrible, just don't use them
Loyalists have sub-par archers, so the melee attack is fine
Wesnoth took quite a while to make so the developers feel it is quite balanced and would have fixed what you adressed if it actually was a problem
but then... i'm complaining too much.... wesnoth is free
"you get what you pay for"
"Quantity has a quality of its own" Joesph Stalin
I think if you come back after playing Multiplayer for a while longer, then you'll find that you disagree with yourself. The factions all have different styles and are meant to be played differently.
Undeads do have a trait, by the way, it is the "undead" trait, and it grants some immunities.
Undeads do have a trait, by the way, it is the "undead" trait, and it grants some immunities.
http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/User:Sapient... "Looks like your skills saved us again. Uh, well at least, they saved Soarin's apple pie."
Re: Serious PROBLEMS
This is a joke, right?CuddleFish wrote:Drakes
-every single one of their units have extreme cold weakness, even the saurians
(undead pwnz drakes, elf sorcs pwn drakes, saurians pwn drakes)
-most units have that annoying pierce weakness
(loyalists can just spam spearmen against drakes)
-the defense % of drakes and saurians are both insufficient, drakes should have 50% on terrain types like mountains or villages, and saurians should have 70% on certain terrain types... that way those units can actually stand and fight without having to fear getting pwned next turn
-a resilient gobbo has more hp than a saurian, a WC has more hp than a quick,intelligent tribalist; saurians die very easily,
to make it worse they cost more than spearmen and elf fighters...
who can pwn them in 1 vs 1
Undead
-Lack water combat units
loyalists have mermen, elves have mermen hunters, orcs have nagas, drakes can fly, and dwarves have gryffons...
i dont understand why the bats cost 13 and have less hp than a WC
-no traits, and nothing to compensate for that
(immunity to poison and submerge isnt that useful compared to resilient)
Dwarves
-lacks fire/cold units, it is annoying when you have ot use dwarves against units like heavy infantry and woses
-no leadership
Orcs
-the fire arrows of the archer is insufficient
Loyalists
-melee attack of bowmen is too strong
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If you can beat me with drakes while i'm using undead, then i'll agree with youSapient wrote:I think if you come back after playing Multiplayer for a while longer, then you'll find that you disagree with yourself. The factions all have different styles and are meant to be played differently.
Undeads do have a trait, by the way, it is the "undead" trait, and it grants some immunities.
and for the "undead" trait, poison immunity isnt that useful... since only 2 races have level1 poison...
"submerge" is a mostly useless ability, you must have just implemented it after watching "pirates of the caribeean"
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CuddleFish wrote:
If you can beat me with drakes while i'm using undead, then i'll agree with you
I feel like someone makes this same claim at least once every 1-2 months, then gets destroyed by a non-noob player, then realizes that they don't know what they're talking about.
Let's see it one more time, for old time's sake!
Last edited by Doc Paterson on April 23rd, 2006, 10:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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... are terrible (okay, I only wrote that to get under Neo's skin).Cuddlefish wrote:Drakes
Seriously though,
Have you ever seen what a clasher can do to a dark adept?Cuddlefish wrote:every single one of their units have extreme cold weakness, even the saurians (undead pwnz drakes, elf sorcs pwn drakes, saurians pwn drakes)
Also, with the breath attack vs the ghost, the drake is coming out ahead (due to the very low hitpoints of the ghost).
10%, woohooCuddlefish wrote:-most units have that annoying pierce weakness
They used to have higher defense, but that was really unbalanced.Cuddlefish wrote:-the defense % of drakes and saurians are both insufficient, drakes should have 50% on terrain types like mountains or villages, and saurians should have 70% on certain terrain types... that way those units can actually stand and fight without having to fear getting pwned next turn
But saurians aren't made to be frontline fighters. In between their healing, skirmishing and magic, they're support units and scouts. Keep that in mind when using them.Cuddlefish wrote:-a resilient gobbo has more hp than a saurian, a WC has more hp than a quick,intelligent tribalist; saurians die very easily,
to make it worse they cost more than spearmen and elf fighters...
who can pwn them in 1 vs 1
... are really annoying to fight against.Cuddlefish wrote:Undead
And we all know how important controlling the seas is in Wesnoth...Cuddlefish wrote:-Lack water combat units
Because they are unbelievable scouts? They have 7mp and need only 1mp through most terrain. Scary...Cuddlefish wrote:i dont understand why the bats cost 13 and have less hp than a WC
... except huge resistances to the two most common damage types and the ability to spam ad infinitum.Cuddlefish wrote:-no traits, and nothing to compensate for that
Wooo, yeah (sorry).Cuddlefish wrote:Dwarves
Fighters (and the occasional 'serker for the finish) will turn woses into kindling fast.Cuddlefish wrote:-lacks fire/cold units, it is annoying when you have ot use dwarves against units like heavy infantry and woses
As for HI, you've obviously not noticed how annoying it is to fight thunderers (or worse, poachers) with them...
Aaaw...Cuddlefish wrote:Orcs
In between the piercing arrows, the fire arrows, the impacting trolls and the piercing goblins, orcs really have 'a little something for everyone'.Cuddlefish wrote:-the fire arrows of the archer is insufficient
But grunts are terrible, I'll grant that .
... are all right.Cuddlefish wrote:Loyalists
I guess it's a question of personal taste, I like the fact that loyalist bowmen are somewhat more like mixed fighters. But they're not that great.Cuddlefish wrote:-melee attack of bowmen is too strong
I do happen to agree with this, though:
I've always thought a dwarf leader would be nice. To preserve factional identity, I personally think there should be a lvl 3 branch (not lvl 2 like the elves).Cuddlefish wrote:Dwarves
-no leadership
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It could be useful to post some replays of such games, so that new players can learn from them before posting.Doc Paterson wrote:I feel like someone makes this same claim at least once every 1-2 months, then gets destroyed by a non-noob player, then realizes that they don't know what they're talking about.
Let's see it one more time, for old time's sake!
Ooh ooh, I got one!!Viliam wrote:It could be useful to post some replays of such games, so that new players can learn from them before posting.Doc Paterson wrote:I feel like someone makes this same claim at least once every 1-2 months, then gets destroyed by a non-noob player, then realizes that they don't know what they're talking about.
Let's see it one more time, for old time's sake!
Damn, those ARE problems with every faction .
Damn, those problems make things balanced too .
Damn, i thought Cuddlefish knew by now .
OAT, i may need a copy of this in Off-Topic so i can laugh.
EDIT: Thinking that would work, Dragon Master, would be a little wishful, IMO.
Damn, those problems make things balanced too .
Damn, i thought Cuddlefish knew by now .
OAT, i may need a copy of this in Off-Topic so i can laugh.
Well, Doc is the Lord of Replays, right?. Maybe some can be stickied in Strategy, Users, or gods help us, Multiplayer Dev.Viliam wrote:It could be useful to post some replays of such games, so that new players can learn from them before posting.
EDIT: Thinking that would work, Dragon Master, would be a little wishful, IMO.
Last edited by Cuyo Quiz on April 24th, 2006, 12:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Turn on, tune in, fall out.
"I know that, but every single person nags about how negative turin is; it should be in the FPI thread "Turin should give positive comments" =)"-Neorice,23 Sep 2004
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So, basically he's saying the factions should be all identical? Why even have factions then. let's just have one side with different pictures. Then Wesnoth becomes boring so let's not even play it.
Come one! The whole thing that makes a strategy game interesting is that every side has some weakenesses and some strengths. You post is indeed a list of features, not bugs.
Come one! The whole thing that makes a strategy game interesting is that every side has some weakenesses and some strengths. You post is indeed a list of features, not bugs.