Scenario Review: THoT 12 - The Underlevels

Feedback for the mainline campaign The Hammer of Thursagan.

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octalot
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Re: Scenario Review: THoT 12 - The Underlevels

Post by octalot » April 1st, 2018, 5:09 pm

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?

1.13.12 Normal

(2-5)

I've played this before (probably on 1.10), and forewarned is, in this case, forearmed with 3 white mages. I also knew about the chests of gold near the entrance which gave me 3 extra recalls. I expected flying nightstalkers, and surrounded chasms with L3s; I expected far more of them than actually happen, I was cautious of every chasm in the south and in the sneak-passage.

With that, difficulty 3, but with a couple of times where I pushed forward too quickly and was saved by the RNG or lost an L3. One mistake where I had to reload.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

8

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

I decided to wait outside the doors of the south-west lich (ai7), wearing down his forces in safety, but this took a long time. I think giving him less gold to recruit would be good, and I think that's what was expected. On turns 1, 3, and 5 he captures the villages around him, and then gets a few recruits who take the villages around ai8, giving ai7 an income of around 18 per turn from turn 20 onwards. He then fills his castle with recruits and stops because they're not moving off the castle, but still had +11 when he stopped recruiting. When I opened the chamber (turn 78), he had about 750 gold to churn in to recruits. Maybe give him a set amount when the doors on 21,54 are opened?

There was a spectre in the spider room (it's a bug), which made me more defensive.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?

I got impatient and pushed forward leaving Angarthing where an ulf could get him. Went back a turn and kept to the slower tactics that were working.

(bugs)

I'll open a PR for these before 1.13.14, once I've played through it with the changes. There was a graphics-only fix that went in just before 1.13.13, these are bugs still in 1.13.13.

There's an "x=" test that should an "x,y=" test, the eastern sneak-door opened much earlier in the level, allowing the undead from the south-east lich to go north to the spider room. The flying nightstalkers that are supposed to ambush the player's forces in the south end up joining the spider fight, while slower-moving undead are fought one-by-one in the sneak passage.

There's an "x=" test that should an "x,y=" test, taking the chest south of the start (on 15,38) hid the door and chest that are north of the start.
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Balroth
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Re: Scenario Review: THoT 12 - The Underlevels

Post by Balroth » October 2nd, 2018, 12:15 am

I made a campaign-wide feedback, including this scenario. But the campaign is really polished, so I focused mostly on this scenario, in hopes it will help any developer about to edit it :mrgreen:

Not meant in any way to overshadow the rest of the (extremely constructive) comments here, it's just 1 more feedback, but just more detailed.

LordWolfDan
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Re: Scenario Review: THoT 12 - The Underlevels

Post by LordWolfDan » November 18th, 2018, 7:51 pm

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?

- 1.14.5, Easy

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

- 6

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

- Very clear

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

- Interesting, could use some more dialogue though. Plus I wish we got to know what happened to the hammer in the aftermath

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

- Staying away from ulfsekers/berserkers, dealing with spiders and ghostly units

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

- 10

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

- Add a revelation what does the hammer do, like Angarthing deciding he'd inspect the hammer

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?

- None

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kartacha
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Re: Scenario Review: THoT 12 - The Underlevels

Post by kartacha » July 28th, 2019, 11:11 pm

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on? - Normal
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10) - 4
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives? - Not too much. The main goal is clear but the substeps were kind of vague. I did not know that freeing the dwarves was a thing at all until I killed 3 or 4 leaders. Had I not stepped on a certain spot on random I may have not opened the secret door to the spiders at all
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario? - Not too much dialog here as in the rest of the campaign
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario? - Moving units from point A to point B. It took forever!
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10) - 1. I know this is unpopular opinion but easily the least enjoyable scenario in the entire game so far for me. I play the campaigns in chronological order (hence this is number 12) and I have never been more aggravated and enjoyed a scenario less. It took me a little over 3 hours to beat while the entire rest of the campaign took me a little more than 4 hours. I do not mind long scenarios. The previous campaign I played was Northern Rebirth and I loved it. However, the entire campaign is fast paced and then in the end this...
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun? - I would cut the upper route and will shorten the lengths in general Also, make the hidden routes' existence more obvious (bring it to the players attention by a dialog or something)
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario? - N/A. I restart a lot. I do not really care for the challenge as much as for cool setups and seeing all my loyal characters come to the end of the campaigns

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josteph
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Re: Scenario Review: THoT 12 - The Underlevels

Post by josteph » August 12th, 2019, 7:48 pm

kartacha wrote:
July 28th, 2019, 11:11 pm
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun? - I would cut the upper route and will shorten the lengths in general Also, make the hidden routes' existence more obvious (bring it to the players attention by a dialog or something)
The scenario was replaced by another one in 1.14.6.

BTIsaac
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Re: Scenario Review: THoT 12 - The Underlevels

Post by BTIsaac » August 26th, 2019, 1:21 pm

josteph wrote:
August 12th, 2019, 7:48 pm
The scenario was replaced by another one in 1.14.6.
So i looked at the new layout out of curiosity and all i can say is, SERIOUSLY? I know the old map was ridiculous and needed to be cut down, but this feels like a joke. Where are the large dwarven halls? Where's the gallery with the hidden treasure chambers? Where's the hidden cave path? This is no different from just another generic cave level.

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josteph
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Re: Scenario Review: THoT 12 - The Underlevels

Post by josteph » August 29th, 2019, 2:04 am

There's no accounting for taste, but please don't be dismissive of the design, balance, and playtesting work that has been put into the new final scenario. The new scenario is not intended to be a scaled-down version of the old one; it's intended to be judged with respect to the campaign that preceded it, not with respect to the scenario it replaced. If you have specific suggestions please do start a new thread.

Konrad2
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Re: Scenario Review: THoT 12 - The Underlevels

Post by Konrad2 » August 30th, 2019, 8:51 am

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?

1.15.1, Challenging (Lord)

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

8

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

Interesting and clear.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

Establishing a foothold instead of being torn apart right at the beginning, and pushing into Karrags lair fast enough.
Like really, I was cutting it a bit close.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

6

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

-

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?

No.
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