Scenario Review: THoT 11 - The Court of Karrag

Feedback for the mainline campaign The Hammer of Thursagan.

Moderator: Forum Moderators

devavrata
Posts: 119
Joined: August 30th, 2012, 8:59 pm

Re: Scenario Review: THoT 11 - The Court of Karrag

Post by devavrata »

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on? Battle for Wesnoth 1.8.3, Easy/Medium/Hard
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10) 1 - finished in a single turn. One level 3 Dwarf Lord hit Karrag twice with his hammer, then Dulcatulos hit him once. Engame. I would have liked to follow my usual strategy of taking all villages first, but with only four units is mathematically impossible to take 34 villages in 12 turns (hard) with enemy units fighting you and recapturing villages. So, why bother to harvest experience when all your units are already at level 3 (except Dulcatulos)?
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives? Clear
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario? Clear.
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario? None.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10) I'll give a 3 because of the interesting plot.
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun? I understand the idea of fighting a small battle before the big one - but then, the scenario should slow you. Something other that allowing to win in a single turn.
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario? No
(9) If you know a bit of the Wesnoth Markup Language - do you think that the WML of this scenario is clear and well commented? If not which part would you like to be documented better? -
roidanton
Posts: 90
Joined: September 7th, 2012, 10:41 pm

Re: Scenario Review: THoT 11 - The Court of Karrag

Post by roidanton »

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
Lord on 1.12
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
1
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Crystal
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Very cool
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
None
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
5
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Well, this scenario really made me wonder whether it serves any purpose other than generating an early finish bonus for the next one since I just couldn't see any way of possibly spending more than 2-3 turns on this. With the right units, all that's really stopping you from a single-turn finish is that the target is one hex too far away to be reached.
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
None
lujo
Posts: 27
Joined: December 10th, 2014, 10:21 pm

Re: Scenario Review: THoT 11 - The Court of Karrag

Post by lujo »

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
highest on 1.12.6
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
1
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

Clear

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

Getting disoriented, honestly. The level did not flow smoothly (not that it wasn't fun).

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

8

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

Fix the following bug/lousy interaction: I sent some dwarves down the long easternmost chute from the spider/manuscript room. They got to a door (leading to the eastern lich) and they couldn't open it. This was very dissapointing and caused me to have to backtrack.

The way it happened was problbly that I stepped on one of the portals and triggered something which then prevented me from entering the easternmost liche's chamber from the long northern corridor, which I went to some trouble to march troops down (since you have to march them into the spider room first). I'd say it'd be very good if those doors were unloackable regardless of whether the teleporters have been triggered or the 3-hex southern gate was opened, because the player is bound to be messing with the units he didn't send to the spiders and trigger at least one of those things even if there's an assault squad in the long corridor heading for the lich fight.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?

No
LordWolfDan
Posts: 216
Joined: September 30th, 2018, 7:31 am

Re: Scenario Review: THoT 11 - The Court of Karrag

Post by LordWolfDan »

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?

- 1.14.5, Easy

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

- 4

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

- Clear

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

- I think that this could be the best part of this campaign (still have to see the next level), which shows where these masked dwarves all come from, who is Karrag and why's he using the hammer of Thursagan as the weapon instead of tool. Plus the revelation of him recovering from batter, which was in fact him transforming into dwarf lich was a nice twist. This raises a question - are all these masked dwarves undead and serve as puppets of Karrag?

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

- I'll say this - some people said that you start in the same keep as Karrag, but in this version I stood in one keep, just opposite of Karrag's. What's the major challenge here? Staying away from dwarvish ulfsekers

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

- 5

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

- Change a bit when Karrag "dies", with Angarthing saying: "Karrag we battled here was not in real here. We were fighting his ilusion while real Karrag made his escape through the doors behind the throne."

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?

- Nah
Konrad2
Forum Moderator
Posts: 3330
Joined: November 24th, 2010, 6:30 pm

Re: Scenario Review: THoT 8 - The Court of Karrag

Post by Konrad2 »

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?

1.15.1, Challenging (Lord)

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

2

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

Interesting and clear.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

None.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

5

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

-

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?

No.
Attachments
THoT-The Court of Karrag replay.gz
(18.77 KiB) Downloaded 421 times
supperman
Posts: 18
Joined: February 5th, 2020, 2:43 pm

Re: Scenario Review: THoT 11 - The Court of Karrag

Post by supperman »

Content Feedback wrote: March 10th, 2008, 11:18 pm (1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
Challenging 1.12.5

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
2 - It's very short and simple. You don't need to think long what to do.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Obvious.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Good.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Figuring best placements of Angarthing. Major only relative to the size of the scenario.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
8. Finally everything is clear.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Can't think of anything.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
Nope.
mal_shubertal
Posts: 93
Joined: December 1st, 2018, 6:58 pm

Re: Scenario Review: THoT 11 - The Court of Karrag

Post by mal_shubertal »

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
1.16.6 Lord Challenging
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
1. Trivial
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
very
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
I love the writing here. You get the dramatic reveal, Angarthing shouting I AM A WITNESS, some more insight into dwarvish religion/culture/magic, the villain giving his big speech, the heavily foreshadowed betrayal by Movrur. I think an extra couple lines of dialogue could be added for Movrur here, with Angarthing or Aiglondur trying to convince him to come over to their side, since he's been fighting alongside them this whole time, and him giving his own speech showing how he's bought into the ideology of dwarf racial superiority, with maybe a comment about how he looks down on the Knalgan dwarves for associating with lesser beings like humans and orcs. That would match the overall theme in the early parts of this campaign, about all the various tensions and complexities that go with forming the Northern Alliance. Dulcatulos also joins your side in this scenario, and this seems like a perfect opportunity for him and Movrur to argue about what it means to be a 'true dwarf' and justify the sides they take.
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
zero. way too easy.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
1. too easy.
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
For writing, like I said, I think Movrur needs a final speech, he's been such a major character.
This is such an interesting scenario from a story perspective, but just nothing in terms of gameplay. The ulfserkers are completely nonthreatening against any of your high level units, and Karrag could be very frightening with his huge cold attack that circumvents the dwarvish armor, but he plays so passively that there's no tension at all. I think this concept is interesting, a close quarters fight with a very limited number of units, but it honestly just needs to be harder. You could accomplish that by just replacing the ulfserkers with steelclads/Dwarf Lords, and/or making Karrag more aggressive (without being suicidal). You could also keep Karrag very passive, but give him SEVERAL more units, so that it's clearly impossible to win in a straight fight and you have to win through maneuvering/sacrificing less critical units in order to surround him. It might also be fun to offer an optional objective that if you win without killing Movrur you can 'deprogram' him and he'll rejoin your side.
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
no. too easy.
Attachments
THoT-The Court of Karrag replay 20221226-185845.gz
(20.25 KiB) Downloaded 58 times
JL42
Posts: 66
Joined: December 9th, 2023, 11:19 am

Re: Scenario Review: THoT 11 - The Court of Karrag

Post by JL42 »

v. 1.16.10
Lord / Challenging

This is more of a dialogue scenario with only a small bit of fighting. The writing in this part is so good; among the very best that Wesnoth has to offer. (Which is why it's so frustrating that some of the previous scenarios in the campaign are now struggling for coherence and good gameplay.)

The fight is fairly easy, around a 3 difficulty, but it is not really the focus here.

Similar to "Reclaiming the Past," there is a village embedded in the wall of the cave behind Karrag. I guess that's supposed to be the "door behind the throne," but the visuals are a bit awkward.

No changes.

---------------
About the Overall Campaign:

This campaign has deteriorated a bit since the last time I played. Which sucks, because it used to be one of the absolute best. There are still some very strong points – particularly in the last few scenarios (I'm agnostic about the changes to the final map; both versions of that one are good) – and the core strength of the writing continues to carry it. I love how the story develops the heathen culture of the dwarves and their sense of honor etc. However, it desperately needs some work, or restoration, around the middle of the campaign to resolve the confusing events, logical lapses, and frustrating gameplay that have been introduced. I really dislike the addition of the character Movrur, who is not as strong in the writing and kind of ruins the mystery and sense of exploration and adventure that drove the original campaign. In addition to having less mystery and tension, the story is now very confusing and illogical in places, and the maps around scenarios 3–5 are much less enjoyable than previous versions. This used to be one of my favorite campaigns in Wesnoth, five out of five, full marks, but I can't really say that anymore. I'll give it 3 out of 5 stars for the current version, and that is generous based on the lingering writing strength and still having a few solid maps. Would really, really love to see this campaign developed or restored a bit to bring it back to where it could be.
Post Reply