Scenario Review: THoT 7 - Mages and Drakes

Feedback for the mainline campaign The Hammer of Thursagan.

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PorkSol
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Joined: August 23rd, 2011, 2:10 am

Re: Scenario Review: THoT 7 - Mages and Drakes

Post by PorkSol » September 11th, 2011, 4:30 pm

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on? Hardest available, 1.9.8, no save load, 86 starting gold
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10) 7.
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario? Wasn't sure why the mages and drakes only started fighting once we showed up.
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario? It was obvious I would need to assassinate the leader, so I just had to figure out the composition of my four recalls and go for it. I went with two Dragonguards and two thunderguards with experience. The drakes could generally be one shotted as long as the shooter was inspired. At that point it was just a matter of executing the assassination properly and getting the needed rolls to pull it off. (It doesn't require crazy luck, but I had a run where I missed all like 6 one shot kills in a row. I couldn't recover from that with 2-3 drakes spawning per turn.)
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10) 5. I'm getting a bit sick of the scenarios where I can only recall a very small number of high level units and the all or nothing nature of thunderers is a bit irritating in a scenario where you have so few units on the map. Putting aside my own personal dislikes would probably boost the rating to a 6 or 7.
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
Missing 6 one shot kills in a row, a couple other restarts as well, there is a lot that can go wrong on this one.
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taptap
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Re: Scenario Review: THoT 7 - Mages and Drakes

Post by taptap » January 14th, 2012, 11:14 pm

1.9.13, Lord (Challenging). Grinding forward with 2 stalwarts and 3 thunder/dragonguards, all of whom were l3 by the end. How people manage to finish with a bonus is incomprehensible to me. (I can't really afford to spend 20 gold for the gryphon in the beginning w/ only 100 sth. gold.)

Changes: Let Master Perrin recruit some peasants too. It hurts the eyes how the mages are slaughtered.

PS The following scenarios are very unforgiving when you come in with minimal gold (80). Starting with minimal gold you are pretty much forced to go for veterans there, which lets you end them without bonus too. Vicious circle.
I am a Saurian Skirmisher: I'm a real pest, especially at night.

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Ninjuri
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Re: Scenario Review: THoT 7 - Mages and Drakes

Post by Ninjuri » May 19th, 2012, 2:45 am

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
Normal 1.10.2
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
8
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
100%
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Not sure why mages chose to set up near drakes in the first place, then they go at it with the drake burners and their both shooting fireballs at each other like feuding Italian families.
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
A whole bunch of them.

1. I noticed that the start gold for the allies is 220 compared to the drake's 140, this is offset by the fact that the combined allies base income is 4, while the drakes is a whopping 32. Is it really supposed to be that high? Was that a typo? At about 3 turns, any advantage you previously had is now negated. Since it will take way more than 3 turns to make it down there, especially when slowed by drakes, they inevitably will have a great financial advantage over the player. This is compounded by the fact that the only mountains that lead directly to the drakes without going around the map are right along the south side of the river. This means that it would be foolish to try to go after any villages south of these mountain ridges, or any ones north of the river, because even if you had every village on the map, the enemy would still be getting higher income than you.

2. Because the only way to win is to make a B-line right to the enemy castle, you will inevitably be taking your leader with you, as one of your strongest units.This means that any gold you do happen to mass on the way there is unusable in the final battle, while the enemy gets to keep buying until his last breath.

3. Now at first glance it may seem like having an ally would make this easier, but it doesn't. He accounts for half the the allies 4 base income (2), and over half of it's 220 starting gold (120). The problem is that all his units (except 1 white mage) use fire type main attacks, which all the drakes have 50% natural resistance to. The drakes shoot fire back at the mages, who have 0% resistance to it. Mages are pretty much the absolute worst unit you could ever send up against a drake. This means over half of the allies combined income is practically trashed, and would have been much more effective if it had been given to the dwarves instead.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
5. The only way to win this is to use inspired thundergaurds and dragongaurds, and since they have one attack usually with 60% accuracy, things could go surprisingly right or monstrously wrong in one turn of good or bad luck. I almost feel like loading is the strategy that this level was supposed to teach.
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Cut the drakes monstrously high income, diversify the mage's units, and put another castle in closer to the drakes for some mid game recruiting.
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
Yes, one bad turn where all my dragongaurds missed a single target, then again when for some reason they sent every single drake to gang up on my gryphon and kill it, then again when it happened to the witness guy while he was at nearly full health and he died.
Fate is against me.

Giraffemonster
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Re: Scenario Review: THoT 7 - Mages and Drakes

Post by Giraffemonster » June 1st, 2012, 9:49 pm

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
Steelclad (Normal) on 1.10.3

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
8. A lot of it comes down at the last few turns for me.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear, kill the drake.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
It felt a bit odd how the Drakes were just sitting there, and then they finally make their attack when you come to the area.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Killing the drake leader quickly, before his infinite drake meatshield wall took over and killed me. I may have had >100 gold, but unlike others, I had no Dragonguards, only two thunderguards. It was horrible. I tried a few other times, but this time when I won, I lost the loyal Arch Mage. Thankfully, the leader decided to take a cheap shot at one of my dwarves and ended up placing himself in the forest, which made it so much easier.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
4. It was more frustrating for a player like me than I would expect. Watching your ally (and in this case, my own units) get slaughtered makes it even more awful. I didn't feel like I had much control in this scenario either. Most people's strategies will be exactly the same for this one.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
As mentioned above, give the user more sway in how the battle goes. Make it so that you don't have to assassinate the leader as quickly as possible, but rather, just make that a considerable option. Also, giving the allies some peasants to recruit (or at least footpads or something) would be nice. Just please, anything but mages.

Rewriting the opening dialogue for this scenario would be nice too. As someone already mentioned, they should have already been fighting before the dwarves arrived. That would make for a more interesting (and sensible) battle.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
In my previous attempts, Angarthing got killed by a bunch of drakes when attacking the leader at his castle.

(9) If you know a bit of the Wesnoth Markup Language - do you think that the WML of this scenario is clear and well commented? If not which part would you like to be documented better?
N/A

roidanton
Posts: 90
Joined: September 7th, 2012, 10:41 pm

Re: Scenario Review: THoT 7 - Mages and Drakes

Post by roidanton » September 16th, 2012, 3:22 pm

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
1.10.4
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
8
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Cool story :-)
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Well, I've already played this scenario several times on my iPad, could never beat it there and then gave up on the campaign.

Now tried again on Windows with better units and won it.

Protecting that Mage is really difficult, just couldn't find out what to do with him. And again, it's amazing to realize what dwarfs on mountains can do - it was not obvious to me at first that you must not get off that mountain to kill any drakes in the river when there are other drakes around.

This time, I exclusively recalled Dragonguards and two about to level Thunderguards, no Lords or Stealclads - you really need that one-shot kill.

I tried a solution that I saw here in the feedback thread: sending an injured unit within the enemy commander's reach (on my side of the river) and it worked for me. It's very tricky tough, for instance you have to make sure to have two Dragonguards within strike distance, but make sure that no drake blocks your way to the commander (or have additional units within range to clear the path).

Rubric
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Joined: December 31st, 2012, 4:31 am

Re: Scenario Review: THoT 7 - Mages and Drakes

Post by Rubric » January 10th, 2013, 7:37 pm

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
Medium
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
Average, but on the easier side. Basically, nothing seems hard anymore after I finally got through the Invaders mission.

I see other players saying this one was hard. Hopefully I didn't over-recruit again. I think I just have a good crew. I have 3 Lords (including Aiglandur), and a Dragon Guard, as well as a couple of good L2 guys who can still benefit from Angarthing's inspiration. I was also able to level up two new recruits during this mission.
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
The only close call was when my new wizard friend was almost killed. He was lagging behind everyone else, and I had to divert a couple of units backwards to protect him at one point.

I was worried about how I would actually assault the castle, since it required getting across a river in open terrain. But, as others have said, the Drake king made it easy by flying out to attack me before I even tried crossing it.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
Really fun. It was my first time seeing Drake's in the game, and also my first time getting a lot of use out of multiple Lords.

The map looks great, and the whole situation is just cool and interesting. Great job.
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
I'd like it to be just a little bit harder, but I don't what specifically to suggest to accomplish that.
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
No restarts or reloads.

devavrata
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Joined: August 30th, 2012, 8:59 pm

Re: Scenario Review: THoT 7 - Mages and Drakes

Post by devavrata » July 24th, 2013, 3:32 pm

Content Feedback wrote:A survey of the 7th scenario of The Hammer of Thursagan.

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
Battle for Wesnoth 1.8.3, Easy/Medium/Hard
Content Feedback wrote:(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
7
Content Feedback wrote:(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear
Content Feedback wrote:(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Clear, the alliance with the mages seems and interesting twist.
Content Feedback wrote:(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Drakes get a lot of gold, so you better go get them fast before they accumulate a lot of units. Level 1 mages provide little help (they make puny 3-point attacks) and their strategy gets them killed quickly. Best strategy is to make progress through the south side of the river, even if it means leaving the mages alone being massacred in the north side.
Content Feedback wrote:(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
7
Content Feedback wrote:(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
I would improve the mages side.
Content Feedback wrote:(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
No
Content Feedback wrote:(9) If you know a bit of the Wesnoth Markup Language - do you think that the WML of this scenario is clear and well commented? If not which part would you like to be documented better?
-

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Chief_Chasso
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Re: Scenario Review: THoT 7 - Mages and Drakes

Post by Chief_Chasso » July 19th, 2014, 11:26 pm

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?: Easy, 1.11.15
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10): 3
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?: Very clear.
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?: Very clear.
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?: None.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10): 5 or 6
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?: It's hard to say...
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?: No.
(9) If you know a bit of the Wesnoth Markup Language - do you think that the WML of this scenario is clear and well commented? If not which part would you like to be documented better?: Looks good.
SP Campaign: Rally For Roanic

minemax
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Location: Ukraine

Re: Scenario Review: THoT 7 - Mages and Drakes

Post by minemax » September 18th, 2014, 10:50 am

This level seems interesting and fun, but my money is very short (I only have 100+ gold) so this map is just impossible to win. I'm really stuck. :(
Looks like the end of this campaign to me. :) Sad, cause I really loved playing for dwarfs.

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Inky
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Re: Scenario Review: THoT 7 - Mages and Drakes

Post by Inky » September 25th, 2015, 4:37 pm

(1) Level and version? Hard (Lord), 1.12.4, 177 starting gold
(2) Difficult? (1-10) 2, extremely easy.
(3) Objectives? Clear.
(4) Dialog? Fine. Maybe add more motivation for the battle? Drakes don't seem the type to attack travellers randomly.
(5) Challenges? None.
(6) Fun? (1-10) 7 - it's fun but needs more challenge.
(7) Changes? Enemy needs more gold! I have 177, the ally has 100, and the enemy only has 160. Extremely one-sided. Also, less gliders for the enemy because they are so weak and just a waste of money.
(8) Restarts? None.

Finished turn 10/20.
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shadow12
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Re: Scenario Review: THoT 7 - Mages and Drakes

Post by shadow12 » November 27th, 2015, 10:31 am

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on? Medium.Wesnoth 1.10.5, iOS iPad 1.0.4 (not sure how to upload or download replays as of yet)
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10) 10
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives? clear
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario? clear

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
I have tried 3 times and cannot win. I get swamped by Drakes. i have 111 gold and recalled 5 lvl 3.
Went north, went south, went up the river (without a paddle).
There are just too many drakes.
Screw these mages.
Here Keshan! Here boy! (Whistle, whistle) Where is that darn boy when you need him?

Edit: whew, finished! Followed the river but a little behind the mages. They got the worst of it. My problem before was that I was taking too long, worrying about mages and trying to get villages. I gave the drakes too long to multiply. It worked better this time to go a quicker way. The king drake came out after my wounded arch mage. I lost one lord, oh well.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10) 6 or so?
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario? see #5
Sometimes life unexpectedly throws a Troll or a nasty Queen Naga in your path.

Linthar
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Joined: September 14th, 2006, 12:16 am

Re: Scenario Review: THoT 7 - Mages and Drakes

Post by Linthar » April 8th, 2018, 5:01 pm

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
Hard 1.13.13
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
2

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Clear but not particularly interesting.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
None. I recruited a single keep of units, didn't even bother recalling a single level 3, and I pretty much rolled over the opposition. The mages didn't provide much help beyond being distractions and meat shields but small numbers of level 1 drakes aren't a particular issue.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
2. Its so easy it was just boring.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
After seeing the difference in my impressions of this with some of the earlier impressions in this thread, I went and checked the change log and saw that this scenario had been rebalanced. While I cannot attest to whether or not the old version of this scenario was too difficult this new version is certainly too easy. I think a better middle ground needs to be found.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
None.

LordWolfDan
Posts: 149
Joined: September 30th, 2018, 7:31 am

Re: Scenario Review: THoT 7 - Mages and Drakes

Post by LordWolfDan » November 15th, 2018, 6:18 am

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?

- 1.14.5, Easy

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

- 6

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

- Clear, kill the enemy leader

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

- It's good. Some people complain about drake leader interrupting Master Perrin for no reason, yet who came here first? Moreover, maybe the drake was not letting anyone else invade his homeland, which makes sense.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

- There weren't too many, except for one drake attacking Aiglondur (he got wasted soon, the drake)

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

- 6

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

- Have drake leader recruit one keep of level 2 drakes instead of level 1 drakes

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?

- None

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