Scenario Review: SotBE 2 - The Human Army

Feedback for the mainline campaign Son of the Black Eye.

Moderators: Forum Moderators, Developers

Post Reply
User avatar
Content Feedback
Battle for Wesnoth
Location: #wesnoth @ chat.freenode.net
Contact:

Scenario Review: SotBE 2 - The Human Army

Post by Content Feedback » March 12th, 2008, 10:27 pm

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
Mainline Campaigns: Scenario FeedbackDevelopment & Overall Feedback
User-made Add-ons: Feedback

User avatar
Turuk
Sithslayer
Posts: 5283
Joined: February 28th, 2007, 8:58 pm
Contact:

Re: Scenario Review: SotBE 2 - The Human Army

Post by Turuk » January 13th, 2009, 11:51 pm

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Warlord (Nightmare) 1.5.7

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
4. Despite the fact that the enemy Marshal has 10000 gold, his limited recruiting space means you can fight/hold him off long enough to make your "strategic withdrawal" fairly easily if you do not mind sacrificing a few units.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Crystal.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
A bit too short, and "The battle begins." just screamed cliché.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
None.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
6. While not the best, I like the idea of the orc being stubborn and staying to fight (even if it proves an almost suicidal thought). I know that you can choose to skip this and move right into the third scenario, but playing smart here and getting experience sets you ahead of the game.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
None.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
Nope.

(9) If you know a bit of the Wesnoth Markup Language - do you think that the WML of this scenario is clear and well commented? If not which part would you like to be documented better?
Looks good to me.
Mainline Maintainer: AOI, DM, NR, TB and THoT.
UMC Maintainer: Forward They Cried, A Few Logs, A Few More Logs, Start of the War, and Battle Against Time

Egosnemesis
Posts: 18
Joined: April 23rd, 2009, 10:54 am

Re: Scenario Review: SotBE 2 - The Human Army

Post by Egosnemesis » April 23rd, 2009, 11:06 am

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
The easiest, "Challenging". 1.6

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
3. Since it's impossible to beat the scenario by design (Considering the enemy has 10,000 gold and recruits level 2 units), my only goal was to level up some units and hold out for the requisite turns. I didn't have any problems doing that, although I only leveled up 3 units. Two of whom were goblin pillagers, always useful.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
It was good, I like the mid-scenario shift.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
None

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
7. I think it's pretty novel and I like the fact that it is skippable.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Solid as is.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
None

(9) If you know a bit of the Wesnoth Markup Language - do you think that the WML of this scenario is clear and well commented? If not which part would you like to be documented better?
N/A

Arnaudus
Posts: 14
Joined: April 11th, 2009, 6:19 pm

Re: Scenario Review: SotBE 2 - The Human Army

Post by Arnaudus » July 25th, 2009, 10:26 am

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?

Challenging (the easiest one), 1.7.1

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

7, doable but one must plat carefully.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

A bit blur indeed. Objectives change a lot during the scenario, and clearly, this has to be replayed at least once to optimize the output. I managed to notice the sign post that was not there previously, so I guessed that at one point I should have to move my leader there, but if you keep Kapoue in the castle until you're told to move, the scenario is probably almost undoable.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

Kind of cool. Yeah, crush those humans! Well, perhaps not...

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

Being able to play with the dumb AI, which overreacts to the wolfriders stealing villages in the West. Choosing which units have to be protected and which ones should be sacrificed requires some experience as well.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

6, not more because of the changes in the objective.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

Limit the number of units the AI can recruit. The last turns were very boring, waiting for these dozens of units to move North, while they could never catch up the battle in time. Infinite credit for the AI is good, but at one point new units should only be recruited to replace losses. Perhaps the AI should recuit both lvl 1 and lvl 2 units, it's a bit weird to face a veteran army at scenario 2...

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?

I think I've played it twice, because I was not happy with the loss/leveling ratio the first time.

(9) If you know a bit of the Wesnoth Markup Language - do you think that the WML of this scenario is clear and well commented? If not which part would you like to be documented better?

--

santosis
Posts: 74
Joined: October 11th, 2010, 12:04 am

Re: Scenario Review: SotBE 2 - The Human Army

Post by santosis » October 18th, 2010, 12:23 am

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
Difficult, 1.8.5

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
9 - Very difficult to come out "on top," giving the amount of gold you spend to survive.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Horrible. Horrible. It is quite unclear what to do once Kapo declares it impossible. I moved to the signpost and nothing happened. This was the first scenario--if all of BfW--that forced me to ask a question on the message boards. Once I knew that I needed to survive for several more rounds, I tried a new strategy.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
In a few words: leader says d'oh.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

I'm wondering if it is at all worth it. I came into the scenario with a pretty healthy pile of gold, and I come out of it with only 4 gold over the minimum.

I was able to advance 2 riders to lvl 2 and end the scenario with 3 lvl 2 archers. My strategy was to send four riders west, and then to recruit only archers and hole up in the mid-map castle. I lost many troops, but leveled a few.

I finished in round 13/18 with 10 gold and will bring 4 into the next scenario.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
5 - What makes it "unfun" is the lack of clarity in objectives. Very annoying.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Obviously, improve the dialogue "I'll be back in one day" or so, or, be ready to retreat when I return with word that our preparations are complete." Something like that. Also, reword the scenario objectives to say something like "survive until Goober's return."

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
See above.

Yrth
Posts: 25
Joined: November 8th, 2010, 4:26 pm

Re: Scenario Review: SotBE 2 - The Human Army

Post by Yrth » December 24th, 2010, 2:35 pm

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
1.8.5, nightmare

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
6 (if you know what to expect)

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Not clear at all, there is an urgent need for further explanations
In part 1 I was wondering what to do because it was obviously not possible to defeat the human opponent and meet the objective.
In part 2 explanation and objective didn´t match. A retreat was mentioned but the objective just indicated to hold on.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
see above

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Figuring out what to do

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
3

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Better explanation and clear objectives, in part two just mention "hold on for X turns and retreat to the signpost"

Doopliss
Posts: 23
Joined: February 9th, 2011, 8:29 pm

Re: Scenario Review: SotBE 2 - The Human Army

Post by Doopliss » February 21st, 2011, 6:06 pm

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Normal (Difficult), 1.8.5

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
8. Swarms of level 2s.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Plenty clear. The change in objective works well.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Quite high-quality.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Thinking I could take him.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
4. Nasty nasty nasty.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
None, really. You have it coming if you decide you can take an army of veterans.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
Thinking I could take him.

WanderingHero
Posts: 164
Joined: May 30th, 2011, 2:03 pm
Location: Uk, London

Re: Scenario Review: SotBE 2 - The Human Army

Post by WanderingHero » June 11th, 2011, 11:05 am

(1) 1.96 medium
(2) 8. People find this easy and were able to feed units experience?! I just got my ass handed to me repetitively had the flood grunts i used get wiped out (and my wolf rider). Am I doing something wrong? How do you not only stall, but keep units alive and feed them xp?
(3) The "hold out until you can escape" thing isn't remotely clear. Hold out for how long? Till the turns run down? Till everyone is ready to leave? But going north doesn't get you ready.. I think you should simply have him say he'll have to keep fighting just a little longer before running north, and I mean say it clearer
(4) Aside from the above, clear. Entertainment wise, definitely above average. Kapou'e has more personality than most mainline lords combined. And lol at that "not running away, the son of black eye strategically withdraws" thing. Corny but I lol'd.
(5) Not getting squashed by a flood of lv2. Waiting to able to use the magic signpost with being locked down by the swarm.
(6) 4. Rather frustrating, but yeah.. makes sense. Though the lack of bonus gold after a punishing mission and the fact you don't get to save before that choice comes up (and the default setting of the game is to erase your auto save from the last mission!) is seriously irksome.
(7) Let the player save before making the choice to go this level, make objectives clearer (maybe don't have the sign post appear until its time to leave, and make it clearer that the player has to continue fighting and shouldn't start running away)
(8) Getting swarmed, unclear objectives, getting ZOC locked while running to the sidepost

SBak
Posts: 78
Joined: October 8th, 2011, 1:36 am

Re: Scenario Review: SotBE 2 - The Human Army

Post by SBak » September 18th, 2013, 10:24 pm

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Challenging (easiest) 1.10.5

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
9-10 - Vrag wasn't joking, was he?

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Very clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
This was good.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Believing that this was easier than suggested. I went into it thinking that if I recruited in numbers I'd only have Dragoons, Duellists and maybe a few Spearmen to deal with. More fool me.

Dealing with Pikemen, particularly when you run short of Archers.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
7 - much of this is down to tension and suspense. It's an incredible learning experience. The pay off here of course is being able to level up units quickly setting you up for the campaign, and how many you can escape with if you make it through.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
I would leave it as it is.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
Numerous. I've tried recruiting additional Wolf Riders and grabbing villages and sitting it out, which of course only allows the enemy to build up an even stronger army which at some point wipes the floor with you. Then I've rushed south to try and stem the flow even managing to get a couple of Slurbows but this only creates lots of wounded units all over the place which the enemy cleans up quite well.

I've almost made it with a hedgehog but there's too few villages where the action is. I believe it's doable if you can get past two more villages, because your units heal quickly but I need to be a much better player I guess to be able to pull this off.

User avatar
Maiklas3000
Posts: 532
Joined: June 23rd, 2010, 10:43 am

Re: Scenario Review: SotBE 2 - The Human Army

Post by Maiklas3000 » April 4th, 2014, 12:48 pm

(1) Level and version? Nightmare; 1.11.12; starting gold 152.
(2) Difficult? 9
(3) Clear? Pretty clear, but see point (7).
(4) Dialog? Good. I have to admit I was prejudiced towards orcs before this campaign. I never realized they could speak so eloquently and intelligently.
(5) Challenges? I failed the first time, but I formulated a good strategy based on my experience. The recruitment strategy was to go slow (to stretch gold) and have three phases: Archers, Grunts, and finally veterans. My combat strategy was to delay the enemy by thinking in terms of position rather than units, and being very passive with Grunts. I visualized Kapou'e's planned route of going from the first keep to the second, back to the first, and then a sprint to the signpost.

Verbal replay: I recruit two archers initially and have Kapou'e run for the second keep, where he recruits a couple more Archers and then six Grunts. They do their best to delay the enemy (see screenshot below), with most of them paying the ultimate price while Kapou'e runs back to the first keep. There, he recruits another Grunt and recalls three veterans: a Crossbowman, an experienced Archer, and "Wolf of 9 Lives," who is a Goblin Knight that I named in the previous scenario. While these units try to delay the enemy, Kapou'e makes a run for the signpost. He sits on the signpost on turn 13 to prevent a Dragoon from moving there. The win is locked up at that point, because only the Dragoon is in range of Kapou'e. The Crossbowman dies, but I gain a Warrior and a second high XP Archer, and "Wolf of 9 Lives" survives brutal but ill-aimed attacks with just 5 hitpoints to spare. I think I could have saved the Crossbowman by having my veterans run into the hills on turn 13, but maybe at the cost of the Warrior. (In hills, Northerners have better mobility than Loyalists.)

(6) Fun? 9. I love having to think on a strategic level in order to win.
(7) Changes? A couple of suggestions:
A) I'd prefer that the scenario end if my leader is already sitting on the signpost at the start of turn 14. I had to move off and back on. It would have been annoying if enemy ZOC had prevented me from that maneuver.
B) I think it would make more sense at the start if the village ownership was about like the end of the previous scenario, which means a lot more than two orc-controlled villages. I especially don't understand the neutral villages near the orc keep. Wouldn't Kapou'e keep them under his control for the gold they generate as tax slaves?
(8) Restarts? Just the one normal loss. No save-reloads.
(9) WML? Okay.
Attachments
SotBE-The_Human_Army_replay.gz
(23.16 KiB) Downloaded 163 times
Human_Army_line.jpg
Start of my turn 7, the line has held.

Theron
Posts: 137
Joined: May 13th, 2008, 10:49 am

Re: Scenario Review: SotBE 2 - The Human Army

Post by Theron » May 10th, 2014, 8:02 am

Nightmare; 1.11.13

Stats:
Scenario, starting gold (default+carryover),turns/max turns,recruits-recalls-advancements-losses-kills
2 100+58 14/18 11-3-1-10-1

Comments:
Scenario 2:
In the past I always skipped this scenario because it will weaken you: You will start scenario 3 with less gold and have few if any extra XP.
But my carryover gold was very high so I decided to playtest the scenario.
I think there is only one reliable source of XP: the very first Dragoon.
After several restarts I got lucky in holding the small keep for crucial turns which netted me almost the same carryover gold.
Attachments
SotBE-The_Human_Army_replay.gz
(25.9 KiB) Downloaded 141 times

sine_nomine
Posts: 39
Joined: April 30th, 2016, 11:34 pm

Re: Scenario Review: SotBE 2 - The Human Army

Post by sine_nomine » May 1st, 2016, 2:39 am

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Nightmare 1.12.4

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
8
154 starting gold

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Good

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
The main objective is to delay the human troops for a couple turns. I made a line of grunts along the castle and forest at the center of the map. I probably should have held that position for another turn. In the end, I didn't manage to get much exp in this scenario.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
7

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Can't think of anything

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
No
SotBE-The_Human_Army_replay.gz
(22.6 KiB) Downloaded 111 times

BillytheBabyGoat
Posts: 20
Joined: December 21st, 2016, 12:39 am

Re: Scenario Review: SotBE 2 - The Human Army

Post by BillytheBabyGoat » December 21st, 2016, 3:18 am

Content Feedback wrote:(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
1. Nightmare.

2. 5 (11 if you're trying to kill the guy of course)

3. Seemed fine; I could tell the developers were trying not to give too much away at first with the objectives (i.e. not having the first objective be "Defend until you're able to retreat").

4. Very solid; characterizes Kapou'e very well as an intelligent commander when he realizes "Oh man, this was NOT a good idea was it."

5. Surviving was tight, although I got a little bit of xp in the process so it worked out. First turn I recruited a full castle of level 1 new recruits and sent them south; second turn I did the same thing. They fought it out with the humans and were all slaughtered very easily at the center castle (RNG was especially against me) so I summoned another castle and a half of grunts, which is all I could do without throwing income negative and running out of gold. Used the grunts to stall enemies, while Vrag darted in and got a few easy kills. Ended up finishing the scenario with multiple enemies one turn away from the signpost, Kapou'e at 47 xp, two newly leveled level 2 warriors (In addition to everything I leveled in the first scenario), and a level 2 and a half Goblin Knight (Vrag).

6. 8; I liked Kapou'e being like "Yea no" once a few waves of level two troops come out of the enemies keep. The scenario is intended to be barely completable, and that it is.

7. Nothing, scenario is fine as is.

8. I didn't have to restart/reload any.

Post Reply