Scenario Review: (UTBS) 3. A Stirring in the Night

Feedback for the mainline campaign Under the Burning Suns.

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nuorc
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Re: Scenario Review: (UTBS) 3. A Stirring in the Night

Post by nuorc »

Ah, ok. I didn't get that each village is counted seperately. Zhul's line doesn't have any effect anyway (so it could be left out ).
I have a cunning plan.

nikita1996
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Re: Scenario Review: (UTBS) 3. A Stirring in the Night

Post by nikita1996 »

1) v1.12.4 difficulty: Desert Sentinel (Challenging)
2) Yeah. It's adequate. This scenario is more difficult than the last two. I lost 4 villages totally during the war.
3) I reloaded once. When I was fighting with the corrupted elf, my arch mage died in the first time. It's a great pity! So, I reloaded. The corrupted elf is so strong in both melee and ranged attack. He is enough to kill anyone of mine.
4) The problem of this story is, the player don't know that they will keep fighting after 12 turns. I thought the scenario would finish in the 12th turn. So I didn't get enough ready to fight with the corrupted elf. Players should be noticed of the next war in the beginning.
5) It's fun and challenging.
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Inky
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Re: Scenario Review: (UTBS) 3. A Stirring in the Night

Post by Inky »

1) Level, version, gold? 1.12.5 nightmare, 269 starting gold
2) Adequately difficult? 9/10. Yes, it's really hard, maybe because I recruited a lot last scenario and didn't have much starting gold.
3) Reloads? No restarts/reloads
4) Dialog? I thought Garak's berserk weapon special was kind of confusing - wasn't clear that the berserk only worked on specific undead units.
5) Fun? Very tense battle to see if I could kill the undead leaders before the orcs swarmed my western villages.

Recruited 2 keeps of units including some fodder hunters (they all died), split into two groups and rushed both undead leaders at once. I managed to finish off the undead leaders on turn 10 (barely, and with some luck) just as the orc situation in the west was getting out of control. I think I lost 4 villages total.
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UnwiseOwl
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Re: Scenario Review: (UTBS) 3. A Stirring in the Night

Post by UnwiseOwl »

1) Version? 1.13.7, Challenging (new elves)

2) Adequately difficult? Started with 540 gold, due to the cascade from the first scenario. I think this one is set about right goldwise, though.
What IS too easy are the champions. By the time Garak's challenge came out in turn two, one of my units stationed in the village had almost killed one of the heroes already. I think given that the player probably has a number of higher-level units by now the heroes could afford to be level 3 units, or at least buffed with extra hp or something.

3) Reloads? None.

4) Dialog?
I think the 'Wounded' scout should probably be wounded. When he appears he has full HP and that's weird.
Death Knight dialogue on the death of the Lich sounded like he was about to spawn a wave of enemies thanks to an influx of gold but he let me down. Sad :(
Kaleh says it will be as bad if the orcs reached the tents as if the undead did, which is not true since their bodies won't be desecrated to create zombies. Maybe he could say 'almost'?
The way that they're all so okay with Garak's death when you kill the undead is a bit cold. Especially Kaleh. He could show a little more heart, I think.

5) Fun?
I think the three way battle is well-spaced and requiring the player to get involved to defend their camps is a nice conceit. The orcs arrive at just about the right time to pose a good puzzle, too.
The experienced UD recruits are good fun, but either I got very unlucky or they are set to get a LITTLE too much XP. Many units were 3/4 xp away from upgrades on spawn, which decreased the tactical challenge somewhat. I like the mechanic, but I wonder if there could be a little more variance in XP given to create a little variety.
It'd be nice if the campfires were impassible. But it's just nice to see them used. I've got quite an attachment to that particular sprite.
Garak is displayed as having magical and beserk attacks, even though those attacks only exist against the undead champions. This is...pretty misleading. I think it's possible to set weapon specials to not appear generally and this is an opportunity to do that.
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Maintainer of the Imperial Era and the campaigns Dreams of Urduk, Epic of Vaniyera, Up from Slavery, Fall of Silvium, Alfhelm the Wise and Gali's Contract.
But perhaps 'maintainer' is too strong a word.

Thrash
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Re: Scenario Review: (UTBS) 3. A Stirring in the Night

Post by Thrash »

1) What version and difficulty level did you play the scenario on? Please do not submit feedback from pre 1.4.

1.12.6, Challenging.

2) Do you think the difficulty is adequate to the level? If not describe the issue that made the scenario to easy/hard.

It gave me fits until I figured out the right tactics of when to be aggressive and when to be defensive. I probably lost 3 or 4 times before I won, but that win was frustrating because the orc leader dropped what I learned later was a map but I have no unit to get to it so missed out, so I replayed one more time winning nicely (attached replay).

3) Was there any event that caused you to almost instantly loose, or made the scenario unplayable without reload?

Wiki:
you'll need to have good luck
At first I was being too aggressive and got units killed. Then a couple of times key units got slaughtered after the RPG didn't go my way, the undead couldn't miss and cut through my lines like butter. You have to be very conservative and, as the wiki says, still fairly lucky.

4) Do you like the storyline and the dialogues? If not what part/character lags behind or what would you like changed?

Good.

5) Do you think the scenario was fun? Please write down some thoughts about gameplay, mood etc.

Yes, this was a fun challenge, though the amount of luck stops me short from really loving it.

The undead arriving nearly leveled is brilliant. It also means you have lots of situations when you are in a feast or famine situation - if you hit the undead it dies, if you miss it levels. This really amplifies the luck and can quickly turn the tide one way or the other.

Key to winning (besides luck) was figuring out you need to let the undead armies meet each other on the Eastern part of the map and kill some of each other.

Let the player keep the scout that brings news of the orcs. The first time I played I didn't realized they would be arriving so quickly and the scout would have bought me a critical turn in sacrifice.

The orcs arriving and Kaleh having to run back to defend is a neat twist, but after the first time it seemed like Kaleh didn't had time to do anything meaningful against the undead and still make it back in time to recruit and defend the keep, so he just ended up hanging out there. Since I had him pick up the holy water in the previous scenario this was just too painful so I admit I went back to the last couple turns of that scenario and had someone else pick up the holy water. Assuming I won't regret this it might make sense to clue the player that someone besies Kaleh should get the holy water.

I don't know if this is a bug, but several times nearly recruited undead in the Northern keep would instantly level right after their arrival - no combat or anything, just appeared and leveled.
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Kylix
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Re: Scenario Review: (UTBS) 3. A Stirring in the Night

Post by Kylix »

nikita1996 wrote:
August 16th, 2015, 2:46 pm
1) v1.12.4 difficulty: Desert Sentinel (Challenging)
2) Yeah. It's adequate. This scenario is more difficult than the last two. I lost 4 villages totally during the war.
3) I reloaded once. When I was fighting with the corrupted elf, my arch mage died in the first time. It's a great pity! So, I reloaded. The corrupted elf is so strong in both melee and ranged attack. He is enough to kill anyone of mine.
4) The problem of this story is, the player don't know that they will keep fighting after 12 turns. I thought the scenario would finish in the 12th turn. So I didn't get enough ready to fight with the corrupted elf. Players should be noticed of the next war in the beginning.
5) It's fun and challenging.
Where have you found the Corrupted Elf? I played UTBS many times, but I've never found him... :(

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octalot
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Re: Scenario Review: (UTBS) 3. A Stirring in the Night

Post by octalot »

The Corrupted Elf should appear on turn 12, if you don't win the scenario before then.

nikita1996
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Re: Scenario Review: (UTBS) 3. A Stirring in the Night

Post by nikita1996 »

Kylix wrote:
May 31st, 2018, 4:06 pm
Where have you found the Corrupted Elf? I played UTBS many times, but I've never found him... :(
corrupt_elf_turn_12.png
The corrupt elf will appear if Garak (The level 2 fighter first appeared in the first scenario) is on the map until turn 12. At the beginning of turn 12, the ghost king on the northeast of the map will disappear and Garak will become a corrupt elf and take the ghost king's place.

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Kylix
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Re: Scenario Review: (UTBS) 3. A Stirring in the Night

Post by Kylix »

nikita1996 wrote:
July 12th, 2018, 2:48 am
Kylix wrote:
May 31st, 2018, 4:06 pm
Where have you found the Corrupted Elf? I played UTBS many times, but I've never found him... :(
corrupt_elf_turn_12.png

The corrupt elf will appear if Garak (The level 2 fighter first appeared in the first scenario) is on the map until turn 12. At the beginning of turn 12, the ghost king on the northeast of the map will disappear and Garak will become a corrupt elf and take the ghost king's place.
Yeah, I've played as you suggest me and fought him. Sadly, he still doesn't have his own avatar, that should be, of course, a modified Garak one.

LordWolfDan
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Re: Scenario Review: (UTBS) 3. A Stirring in the Night

Post by LordWolfDan »

1) What version and difficulty level did you play the scenario on? Please do not submit feedback from pre 1.4.

- 1.14.5, Normal

2) Do you think the difficulty is adequate to the level? If not describe the issue that made the scenario to easy/hard.

- It might be difficult to some players. yet fighting off the undead while you're on sand (your favorable terrain) and having the hold of all villages can make this battle easy

3) Was there any event that caused you to almost instantly loose, or made the scenario unplayable without reload?

- Not really

4) Do you like the storyline and the dialogues? If not what part/character lags behind or what would you like changed?

- It is good. Undead clashing with them being possibly unaware of elvish camp nearby is a nice touch. The wounded elvish scout could have had his HP on 1-10, dunno. I managed to finish the scenario before the orcs could actually appear. I'm quite shocked that Garak met his demise, as I thought the character development was going to be like in "Northern Rebirth". I wish that the others could have given more emotional talk about his death.

5) Do you think the scenario was fun? Please write down some thoughts about gameplay, mood etc.

- I say it is, knowing that it's rare to have undead fighting against each other. It's so depressing that Garak died

Konrad2
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Re: Scenario Review: (UTBS) 3. A Stirring in the Night

Post by Konrad2 »

1) What version and difficulty level did you play the scenario on?

1.14.7, Champion (Nightmare)

2) Do you think the difficulty is adequate to the level?

Probably not, since it wasn't actually hard to defend all 12 villages.

3) Was there any event that caused you to almost instantly lose, or made the scenario unplayable without reload?

No. (But I played it before, so...)

4) Do you like the storyline and the dialogues?

I like them.

5) Do you think the scenario was fun?

Yes, but I'm no good judge for mood and stuff. :/ Garaks death is always sad though, no matter which route you take to get there...
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devavrata
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Re: Scenario Review: (UTBS) 3. A Stirring in the Night

Post by devavrata »

Content Feedback wrote:
March 20th, 2006, 6:39 am
1) What version and difficulty level did you play the scenario on? Please do not submit feedback from pre 1.4.
Battle for Wesnoth 1.8.3, Easy, Battle for Wesnoth 1.10.7 Medium, Battle for Wesnoth 1.12.5 Hard
2) Do you think the difficulty is adequate to the level? If not describe the issue that made the scenario to easy/hard.
Quite difficult, still doable.
3) Was there any event that caused you to almost instantly lose, or made the scenario unplayable without reload?
No.
4) Do you like the storyline and the dialogues? If not what part/character lags behind or what would you like changed?
It's fine.
5) Do you think the scenario was fun? Please write down some thoughts about gameplay, mood etc.
The enemy is quite challenging, with Level 3 and Level 2 units.
First thing you do is notice is the three campfires: one hex in the center surrounded by six hexes surrounded by twelve hexes. So you use the first time you play to experiment what happens with that: elves on campfire hexes get their attacks increased, enemies on campfire hexes get their attacks reduced.
Second thing you do is try to obtain maximum profit from the campfires by placing an hedgehog formation on each one, with a druid at their center. That way enemies will have to enter the outer campfire hexes to attack your units, and you'll get the full benefit. But this strategy fails, because the enemy will win by taking villages. Recovered villages still count as lost.
So the third thing you do is to play formations at the campfires in a way that allows you to keep the villages there. Northern and centre campfires have villages at their edge, so you move the hedgehog formation to the edge - though there is no way to arrive to the village in the northern campfire before the enemy does. The southern campfire has two villages at its edge, so basically you take both and form a line connecting the two in a way that a Druid placed on the campfire can provide healing to the three units in the line. This works nicely. The IA is not stupid though, and will rather attack you from non-campfire hexes whenever it can. Wounded units can be moved to the less exposed side of your formation until they heal enough, but the fast flying undead units will probably reach them anyway. The battle between the undead helps a bit.
You might never see Garak possesed if you manage to kill the two enemy leaders on the same turn - if you do so, Garak will still die, seemingly by his own hand and sadness because everything he lost on the catastrophe. Should you choose to milk the scenario for experience, then by turn 12 (the last turn on hard difficulty) Garak will be possessed, disappear, and the map will suddenly become dark on the empty zones. In my case, I sent a unit to the southern enemy keep to unveil Garak there, but chose to win by killing the remaining undead leader.

Zrevnur
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Re: Scenario Review: (UTBS) 3. A Stirring in the Night

Post by Zrevnur »

Content Feedback wrote:
March 20th, 2006, 6:39 am
1) What version and difficulty level did you play the scenario on? Please do not submit feedback from pre 1.4.
1.14.11 Champion/Nightmare no reloading, played several times
Content Feedback wrote:
March 20th, 2006, 6:39 am
2) Do you think the difficulty is adequate to the level? If not describe the issue that made the scenario to easy/hard.
Difficulty is ok. But I am unsure I understand "the rules". Meaning what happens if I lose one or more tents. I also dont know whats up with the Garak stuff. Is it possible to save Garak somehow? Is there a benefit to killing the undead leaders before 11 turn time over? In the replay the orc leader dropped an item but I have no idea what it is or does. I was unable to pick it up as it was the 11th/last turn.
Content Feedback wrote:
March 20th, 2006, 6:39 am
3) Was there any event that caused you to almost instantly lose, or made the scenario unplayable without reload?
No but I understand part of the "rules" due to having played it several times. The way the zombies appear and can chain-capture tents is extremely unfair and unpredictable. They shouldnt be able to move right away.
Also very bad and unfair is that you only have 11 turns to kill the undead leaders. The "12" turns display is badly misleading. Normally if it says 12 turns on top of the screen it means I actually have 12 turns and not just 11.
The way the starting units are placed is very RNG. I dont think its quite right this way. There was one play in which I could only bait the northern wraith champion by placing (and thus risking as it can be killed in one turn) the Dust Devil up there in the first turn.
Content Feedback wrote:
March 20th, 2006, 6:39 am
4) Do you like the storyline and the dialogues? If not what part/character lags behind or what would you like changed?
I dont like the "Kaleh leader" stuff. It also doesnt make proper sense to have Kaleh pick the camp site etc. This should be done by some experienced scout/s and not a green boy.
Whats bad about the dialogues is that they dont fit the gameplay. The undead AIs should try to attack each other. But they just charge against the nearest targets == the players units. And in the replay some of the southern units even move west without engaging anything. This is like they are running away from their sworn enemy in the north.
And I have no idea how the undead leader can kill Garak. Either I missed it or this needs some serious explaining. Why doesnt it use this (totally OP) insta-gib-enemy-from-far-away ability before?
Content Feedback wrote:
March 20th, 2006, 6:39 am
5) Do you think the scenario was fun? Please write down some thoughts about gameplay, mood etc.
Early on its fun but later it turns a bit into a positioning chore.
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