Scenario Review: (UTBS) 4. Descending into Darkness

Feedback for the mainline campaign Under the Burning Suns.

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sparr
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Post by sparr » August 7th, 2007, 3:13 am

I am having trouble figuring out how to beat this one. Could someone tell me how much money you arrive with? I have left the previous map with -300 and +99, both giving me 100 to start here, which is 5 recalls. The starting orcs are good cannon fodder, getting my group of 9 units all to level 3... And I am stuck. I can cross the map north or northwest and get just inside the caves either way, and then I find myself stalemated against an infinite supply of teal and purple orcs. If I fight in the open then they gang up on my units one at a time and their superior numbers win. If I fight in a bottleneck then I kill 1-2 of them every turn, and they reinforce, and I just sit there holding my position for 30 turns while time runs out :(

Kreuzverbeugungsmann
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Post by Kreuzverbeugungsmann » October 1st, 2007, 3:58 pm

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
Challenging, 1.2.3
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
5. Wasn't really that difficult, but I had plenty of gold to start with. After conquering the island, I basically waited 2 turns without doing anything except completely healing my barely injured army, while waiting for the night. In the night, the orks attacked, but my superior position (villages, mountains vs. bridge, water) made it pretty easy. From then on I could advance without real problems.
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
absolutely clear
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Not too much going on
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
The assassin appeared at the spot where my desert shyde was, which in turn disappeared without any comment. So I thought it was a bug, reloaded and moved my units a little. Someone mentioned it gets explained later, but I hadn't read the reviews at that time.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
10. I loved it, my absolute favourite is the goblin protecting his "shinies" :lol:
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
I simply love it the way it is. Maybe it could be a *little* bit harder, but maybe I just had too much gold.
(8 ) How much gold did you have at the start of the scenario?
544

miekka
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Post by miekka » December 31st, 2007, 6:44 pm

1. 1.27 easiest.
2. 7. It is almost crucial to capture most of the villages before heading for the caves, otherwise the battles there will go on forever.
3. Get as north as possible, clear enough.
4. Good, but there's nothing special to be said about it.
5. Hurrying up. I finished the scenario on the turn 48 out of 50. :roll:
6. 5. Nice and challenging.
7. More turns to deal it with.
8. 122.

Sly
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Post by Sly » January 2nd, 2008, 9:21 am

miekka wrote:1. 1.27 easiest.
2. 7. It is almost crucial to capture most of the villages before heading for the caves, otherwise the battles there will go on forever.
3. Get as north as possible, clear enough.
4. Good, but there's nothing special to be said about it.
5. Hurrying up. I finished the scenario on the turn 48 out of 50. :roll:
6. 5. Nice and challenging.
7. More turns to deal it with.
8. 122.
Just a simple counsel I you try harder difficulties : the key is attacking the 2 entries at the same time, else you'll be outnumbered :wink:

miekka
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Post by miekka » January 2nd, 2008, 1:01 pm

I did have two attack forces fighting. One at the both cave entrances. I lost not very experienced units, so in the end it worked quite well. But... that was close!

"Oh no! Reinforcements have arrived!" :lol:

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Mist
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Re: Scenario Review: (UTBS) 4. Descending into Darkness

Post by Mist » March 16th, 2008, 2:50 am

Please note new set of questions in the first post and se these for feedback from now on.
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Kaleb
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Re: Scenario Review: (UTBS) 4. Descending into Darkness

Post by Kaleb » April 14th, 2008, 9:57 pm

I am having a lot of difficulty with this scenario. I honestly have no idea what to do. If anyone could help that would be great.

1) What version and difficulty level did you play the scenario on?
1.2.6, easy
2) Do you think the difficulty is adequate to the level? If not describe the issue that made the scenario to easy/hard.
No, it was to hard. there were far to many enemies.
3) Was there any event that caused you to almost instantly loose, or made the scenario unplayable without reload?
I would get surrounded at the entrance of the cave
4) Do you like the storyline and the dialogues? If not what part/character lags behind or what would you like changed?
Yup. No problems there.
5) Do you think the scenario was fun? Please write down some thoughts about gameplay, mood etc.
Out of ten, I would give this a three.

lebluedude
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Re: Scenario Review: (UTBS) 4. Descending into Darkness

Post by lebluedude » July 11th, 2010, 2:44 am

The map that you can retrive from the fallen orc does nothing. it sets a variable 'sneak_up' which is not at all used in any later map. Please fix this so it does something?

Jozrael
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Re: Scenario Review: (UTBS) 4. Descending into Darkness

Post by Jozrael » July 22nd, 2010, 6:57 am

Fair point. I wish I knew what the original intent was.

shadowblack
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Re: Scenario Review: (UTBS) 4. Descending into Darkness

Post by shadowblack » August 25th, 2010, 8:31 pm

1) What version and difficulty level did you play the scenario on? Please do not submit feedback from pre 1.4.
1.8.4, Desert Sentinel (Challenging)

2) Do you think the difficulty is adequate to the level? If not describe the issue that made the scenario to easy/hard.
Two things:
1) If you send a unit west and trigger the assassins and the naga before killing all goblins (including the knights that come to attack you) it could get pretty nasty. When I accidentally triggered that event I reloaded and avoided going west until I killed the blue leader – at which point the event triggered automatically, but with the blue guys dead it was easy
2) The entrances into the cave are both very narrow, so a couple of enemies can stall you for quite some time – especially if you’re unlucky with your attacks – which is just annoying

Overall the scenario is not hard, but if you get unlucky it’s easy to lose one or more units, since there are few spots with good defense for the elves and in the cave it’s constant night, with all the problems that brings.

3) Was there any event that caused you to almost instantly loose, or made the scenario unplayable without reload?
No, nothing made the scenario unwinnable/unplayable.

4) Do you like the storyline and the dialogues? If not what part/character lags behind or what would you like changed?
Yes, I love it.

5) Do you think the scenario was fun? Please write down some thoughts about gameplay, mood etc.
I enjoyed the scenario. My favorite part were the surprises if you go out of your way to explore – both the extra gold and the cold damage were very nice, though the damage will probably be of little use to my Shyde (but I had no other unit that could get there fast enough).

The various other surprises (such as the nagas) were also nice and provided some much-needed variety. Speaking of the assassin, my thoughts on him can be summed up like this:
Hey, where did that clown come from? And where did he go?... What’s his problem, anyway?


6) Do you think the scenario's WML is clear and commented well enough? If not which part would you like to see improved?
Pretty well documented, but there’s at least one comment that is misleading (probably because it is a copy of an earlier comment and the numbers were not changed:
# AI will attack a weak unit with a max of 3,4,5 units
# depending on the difficulty (default=5)
{ATTACK_DEPTH 2 3 4}

The same lines are repeated for the other Orc leader – the comment says “3,4,5”, but “attack depth” says “2,3,4”

Apart from that everything is fine.

P.S.: So, the map from the goblin leader in the previous scenario does nothing? Boo! Maybe if you took it you see the area outside the caves (it was on the map)? And/or maybe you know where the ambushes are (the goblins and the nagas)? I prefer the former.
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Desert_Shyde
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Re: Scenario Review: (UTBS) 4. Descending into Darkness

Post by Desert_Shyde » January 22nd, 2011, 7:53 pm

I played the "Desert Sentinel" level on version 1.9.3.
None of the enemies recruited.
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TheCripple
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Re: Scenario Review: (UTBS) 4. Descending into Darkness

Post by TheCripple » March 24th, 2011, 6:11 pm

Content Feedback wrote:1) What version and difficulty level did you play the scenario on? Please do not submit feedback from pre 1.4.
2) Do you think the difficulty is adequate to the level? If not describe the issue that made the scenario to easy/hard.
3) Was there any event that caused you to almost instantly loose, or made the scenario unplayable without reload?
4) Do you like the storyline and the dialogues? If not what part/character lags behind or what would you like changed?
5) Do you think the scenario was fun? Please write down some thoughts about gameplay, mood etc.
Optional
6) Do you think the scenario's WML is clear and commented well enough? If not which part would you like to see improved?
1) 1.9.4 Easy.
2) Yes.
3) Surprisingly enough the naga ambush did so. Mostly because I went there as a retreat with a group of units including Zhul to allow a fresh group to take the main battle. Cue Zhul getting jumped by all the naga, and a loss. I adjusted my strategy to cope, and it didn't pose an issue in the future.
4) Its standard for Under the Burning Suns, which means a bit needlessly wordy while still overall good. Its not up to the Descent into Darkness standard, or even Deadwater, but certainly outstrips Heir to the Throne.
5) For the most part yes, as the tempo of the battle was very good. However the incredibly narrow passages in the cave, and utter unwillingness of the orcs to come outside long enough to leave large holes messed this up a bit, though for the most part they were too short to pose any real issue.

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GagarinGambit
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Re: Scenario Review: (UTBS) 4. Descending into Darkness

Post by GagarinGambit » March 27th, 2011, 10:58 pm

1) What version and difficulty level did you play the scenario on? Please do not submit feedback from pre 1.4.
Most difficult, 1.8.4

2) Do you think the difficulty is adequate to the level? If not describe the issue that made the scenario to easy/hard.
I get the feeling the difficulty varies depending on the outcome of some of your choices, not all of them having an obvious impact. For instance, triggering the assassin/naga at the wrong time can make it very difficult; also, I see the exit is placed randomly, meaning that the game may be prolonged or completed quickly depending on a random factor. In addition, the AI tends to be passive and unpredictable, which further complicates things. On average, I believe the difficulty is fine, but it can get much easier or much harder depending on actions that have unforeseeable consequences.

3) Was there any event that caused you to almost instantly loose, or made the scenario unplayable without reload?
Yeah, the assassin/naga event. Had I not reload, Zhul would get under attack by 5-6 units, and that's certain death.
Also, although not an event as such, it's worthwhile to note that I first I tried the (obvious) strategy of defending in the sand, near the starting position, until defeating the first orc wave. But this was a disaster because the AI is extremely cautious in engaging you: after nearly 20 turns there were still many of them left alive, and I was deep into negative gold. Restart.

4) Do you like the storyline and the dialogues? If not what part/character lags behind or what would you like changed?
This scenario is more straightforward than the previous, and there's less dialogue because of this. But what is there, is good as always.

5) Do you think the scenario was fun? Please write down some thoughts about gameplay, mood etc.
It was fun, but it can't be compared with the previous. That's mostly because your goal stays the same, there are less events, and those that are there tend to cause frustration. Afterwards I saw that there were a few surprises lurking, but considering the map they look more like easter eggs.
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Pewskeepski
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Re: Scenario Review: (UTBS) 4. Descending into Darkness

Post by Pewskeepski » March 29th, 2011, 6:42 pm

(1) Difficulty, version? Challenging, 1.9.4 (232 gold)
(2) How difficult? (1-10) 4: Really easy because the Orcs didn't recruit (I find it hard to believe that's intentional)
(3) How clear? Very
(4) Dialog? Great
(5) Challenges? The assassin surprise
(6) How fun? (1-10) 3: But killing the goblins at the beginning was a blast :mrgreen:
(7) Changes? The orcs should be fixed, and start recruiting ;)
(8) Reloads or restarts? Nope
(9) WML? Well commented
(10) Replay? Attached
(11) Map? Nicely done
Attachments
UtBS-Descending_into_Dar..._replay.gz
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lid
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Re: Scenario Review: (UTBS) 4. Descending into Darkness

Post by lid » July 15th, 2011, 4:32 pm

couldn't find the way to the finish point...It's blocked by cave wall north to the orc keep (discovered by :shroud in debug mode)
even I killed all orcs and triggered all dialogue known
how can I get pass except debug of :n
version 1.8.6 on mac. maybe it's a bug and already fixed in 1.9.7, I am not sure

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