Scenario Review: (UTBS) 6.1 In the Tunnels of the Trolls

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Scenario Review: (UTBS) 6.1 In the Tunnels of the Trolls

Post by Content Feedback » March 20th, 2006, 6:12 am

1) What version and difficulty level did you play the scenario on? Please do not submit feedback from pre 1.4.
2) Do you think the difficulty is adequate to the level? If not describe the issue that made the scenario to easy/hard.
3) Was there any event that caused you to almost instantly loose, or made the scenario unplayable without reload?
4) Do you like the storyline and the dialogues? If not what part/character lags behind or what would you like changed?
5) Do you think the scenario was fun? Please write down some thoughts about gameplay, mood etc.
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SmokemJags
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Post by SmokemJags » March 23rd, 2006, 10:00 pm

1. 102 medium(challenging) 112 normal
2. 5, not too hard
3. kill a troll, pretty obvious and clear
4. trolls spoke a little too eloquently, but it's not a big deal.
5. lava room was interesting, but easy. The lvl 2 trolls near the chieftan were the toughest
6. 8, because of trapped trolls
7. I was going to say 60 turns is too long, but I ended on turn 50 something so I say it's fine. Nice to be able to go at a leisurely and cautious pace rather than be pressured by the clock.
8. 1235 gold

Other comments:

oops.jpg
I guess some troll still alive is supposed to be saying that line. I killed them all before the chieftan though, and I really don't see how it would be possible to not kill the chieftan last.

freeexp.jpg
These two trolls managed to stick themselves into a corner and then they just sat there as I pelted them with arrows and bolas. It was a great way to replenish my depleted ranks because I lost all my marksmen and sharpshooters in the previous scenario.
Keeping those 2 trapped but letting them regen enough so they never died, I turned 3 (brand new) archers 3 (brand new) hunters and 1 (brand new) fighter into their level 2s.
Unfortunately one of the trolls actually leveled from 2 to 3 from all the pelting, and he killed one of the new marksmen. Still, getting 2 marksmen 3 level 2 hunters and a hero out of it was an awesome deal. I dunno if this was intentional between level design and AI settings, but it worked out very nicely.

Missing easter egg?
When I was allied with the trolls in 102... there was an easter egg dealing with a dwarven hermit and a secret crypt guarded by a ghost. In 102, this level and the previous one were linked into one big scenario though. Is there still an easter egg when you ally with the dwarves and I missed it, or was it removed? I certainly didn't see anything on this map or the previous one along those lines.
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"A wise man speaks when he has something to say. A fool speaks when he has to say something."

pjr

Re: Scenario Review: (UTBS) 6.1 In the Tunnels of the Trolls

Post by pjr » April 25th, 2006, 8:35 pm

quartex wrote:(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
Easy, 1.1.2+svn
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
8
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Very clear.
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Very clear, quite interesting.
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Lava. Btw, I think there may be a bug, since neither of my Desert Stars could finish a turn on lava without taking a lot of damage. I therefore missed the Easter Egg events.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
8
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
After crossing the lava, everything else is easy and not very surprising. I suggest making the troll leader and his army a little harder to defeat, and perhaps introducing a combat (maybe a spider?) in the long narrow tunnel.
(8) How much gold did you have at the start of the scenario?
About 1500 (I didn't save a replay, so I can't be exact.)

Scenario 6.1 is significantly more difficult than the alternative scenario 6.2, but that compensates for the fact that it's much easier to beat the trolls than the dwarves in scenario 5. On the whole I think the balance is about right.

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Post by quartex » April 25th, 2006, 11:56 pm

Thanks pjr, there was a bug that caused the shydes/stars to take full damage when the ended a turn over lava.

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Re: Scenario Review: (UTBS) 6.1 In the Tunnels of the Trolls

Post by Oliphant » May 20th, 2006, 3:16 am

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
1.1.2 + svn

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
5. Would probably be easier if I played the campaign again because I'd know to have 2 shyde by this time, which I didn't.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
very clear (kill enemy leader)

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
about average. thankfully not too long. most scenarios in this campaign have way too much dialogue.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
not enough money to start, only had 1 shyde (Zhul)

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
8, the lava was an interesting challenge.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Um, I found the restless ghost, its body, gave it a quick burial, then I can't seem to find whatever it's supposed to give me.

(8) How much gold did you have at the start of the scenario?
100. (The early finish bonus for the last level was 4/turn).

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Re: Scenario Review: (UTBS) 6.1 In the Tunnels of the Trolls

Post by Sly » May 20th, 2006, 8:37 am

Oliphant wrote:(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Um, I found the restless ghost, its body, gave it a quick burial, then I can't seem to find whatever it is supposed to give me.
Already asked : this is a bug :(

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Post by quartex » May 22nd, 2006, 5:09 pm

Once you bury the ghost's bones, his lets you past the passage he was blocking. I just changed the SVN so that the ghost appears and thanks you immediatly after you bury his bones, instead of having to go back to him to get his thanks.

Warhangel
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Post by Warhangel » August 17th, 2006, 6:31 pm

quartex wrote:Once you bury the ghost's bones, his lets you past the passage he was blocking. I just changed the SVN so that the ghost appears and thanks you immediatly after you bury his bones, instead of having to go back to him to get his thanks.
But ghost is not blocking passage for my Desert Star. And after him nothing interest - only one village and one undead. And Wall of Fog...
( v1.1.8 )

Warhangel
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Post by Warhangel » August 18th, 2006, 7:18 am

Warhangel wrote:
quartex wrote:Once you bury the ghost's bones, his lets you past the passage he was blocking. I just changed the SVN so that the ghost appears and thanks you immediatly after you bury his bones, instead of having to go back to him to get his thanks.
But ghost is not blocking passage for my Desert Star. And after him nothing interest - only one village and one undead. And Wall of Fog...
( v1.1.8 )
So, I read scripts and change my save game to place a Coffin (and all events) befor Wall of Fog. And take a poison wand...

Sly
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Post by Sly » August 18th, 2006, 10:00 am

So the bug is still there :(

tan2
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Post by tan2 » December 26th, 2006, 6:07 pm

I just downloaded v1.2.0 today. The coffin bug is still there. I am on Mac OS X. Can somebody on different platform confirm this?

I have to edit the save game to change the terrain from the "impassable mountain" to "chasm". Here is how I did:

Search "map_data", and replace "&" by "X".

Code: Select all

map_data="WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWuuWWWWWWWWsWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWuuWWWWWWWWWsWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWuWWWWWWWWcWccWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
WuWuWWWWWnWWWWWWWWW]WuuuWWWWWr]cccWWWWuuuWWWWWWWWW
WWuWuuWun1nuWWWWWW]WDuuWWWWWru]ucuWWuuuuWWWWWWWWWW
WWWWWWuuuunuWrWWWr]uuWDurrWu[uuruuWuuuWWWWWWWWWWWW
WWWWWWWW[[uW[WrrruuuuuuWWWruurrruuuWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWuuuuWCCWWWWWu[ruWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW[[[CWKuWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW[WWuWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWuWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
WWWWWWWWWWWWWuWWWyWyWuWRWyWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
WWWWWWWWWWWWWuWyyyyuyyRRyyyrWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
WWWWWWWWWWWWWWuyyyyyyyRyruuurrWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
WWWWWWWWWWWWWWyyyyyyyyyyyyuyyrWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
WWWWWWWWWWWWWyyyyyyyyyyyyuyyyrWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
WWWWWWWWWWWyyyyyyuyyyyyyyyyyyyyWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
WWWWWWWWWuuyyyyyuyyRRyyyyyyuurrWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
WWWWWWWuuWuyyyyyuyyyuuyyyyyyuWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
WWWWWWWuWWWWyyyyRyyyyyryyyyyyrWWWWWWWWWWWWDuuuWWWW
WWWWWWWuWWWWWyyRRyyyyyyyyyyyuyrrWWWWWWWDWuuuuCuuWW
WWWWWWWuWWWWWWyuyyyyyyuuyyyuyyyrWWWWWWuuWr[uC7CuWW
WXWWWWrrrWWWWWuuuuyyyyryyyyyyuyrWWWuuWuuWruuCCCuuW
WXWWWuruuuWWWW[uuuyWyyyyuyyyyurWWuWurWuuWuuuuuu[uW
WXWWuuuuD[WWWWuuWWWWWWWryyuuyWWWuuWuruuuuuuuuuuuuW
WWXXuuuW[WWWWWuuuWWWWcrrrruWWWWuuuuuuuurrW]]D]uWWW
WWWuXXWWWWWWWWruu[WWWWWWWWWWWuuWruuuuWurWWWccc]WWW
WWuWWWXXWWWWWWrruuuuWrrrrurrrWWWruWuuWuuWWWWccWWWW
WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWrWrrrWuWuWuWWWWWWWWWuWDWWWWWWWWWWW
WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
"

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ivanovic
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Post by ivanovic » December 26th, 2006, 6:41 pm

If you had used a start of scenario save, you would not have had this problem. Have a look into the map data itself, there you won't find the '&' anymore, it was replaced by 'X' before 1.2 was released. But the mapdata is only read when the scenario is started (like with a start of scenario save).

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Mist
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Re: Scenario Review: (UTBS) 6.1 In the Tunnels of the Trolls

Post by Mist » March 16th, 2008, 2:55 am

Please note new set of questions in the first post and only use these for feedback from now on.
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Re: Scenario Review: (UTBS) 6.1 In the Tunnels of the Trolls

Post by shadowblack » August 26th, 2010, 10:32 pm

1) What version and difficulty level did you play the scenario on? Please do not submit feedback from pre 1.4.
1.8.4, Desert Sentinel (Challenging)

2) Do you think the difficulty is adequate to the level? If not describe the issue that made the scenario to easy/hard.
I think it’s just fine, at least as long as you have enough units to slow the enemy level 2s.

3) Was there any event that caused you to almost instantly loose, or made the scenario unplayable without reload?
No, nothing.

4) Do you like the storyline and the dialogues? If not what part/character lags behind or what would you like changed?
Very good.

5) Do you think the scenario was fun? Please write down some thoughts about gameplay, mood etc.
The narrow passages can be quite annoying if you’re unlucky with your attacks, especially since trolls regenerate. Apart from that the scenario is fun.

The lava and its effects was another different-from-normal mechanic that provided a nice little tactical challenge (it would be a lot harder if I didn’t have so many flying units).

The optional encounters were a nice bonus, though the prisoner one was far too dependent on luck – the guy almost got himself killed before my Star could reach him! It took slowing down the troll and some luck to save the prisoner. The second optional encounter was easy to miss (I noticed the passage completely by accident) and took some time, but the reward was worth it.


6) Do you think the scenario's WML is clear and commented well enough? If not which part would you like to see improved?
Yes, seems very well documented.
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Re: Scenario Review: (UTBS) 6.1 In the Tunnels of the Trolls

Post by podbelski » August 3rd, 2011, 6:55 pm

1) What version and difficulty level did you play the scenario on?
1.9.6, top difficulty

2) Do you think the difficulty is adequate to the level?
10/10 to pass w/o reloads, tough to the point it's a masochism to take such a challenge.

Finished the map in my 3rd try. I knew what to expect, recruited the best selection of units, didn't spend time on side quests at all, reloaded several times for different reasons, and it still was very close - I finished on the last turn, and could have lost in the final chamber if was a bit less lucky.

0 losses (thanks to luck and a couple of reloads), 49 kills.

First battle is moderately difficult, I guess it's good as is.

Then, "rescue the dwarf" sidequest seems fun but I had no time for it (ran out of turns on prev try b/c of it), and also I get the same kind of a loyal dwarf in the next scenario. So atm the quest looks redundant.

Next, a poison wand quest, it is fun, but again time is very scarce and you have to send a Shyde/Star, who is essential to heal your troops to finish the map in time. Also, a melee poison damage for a weak Shyde looks not good enough for me to want it much. Probably, Dust Devil is the best holder, just fun to imagine how does he fight using the wand :)

Next, Fire Guardians and lava - it's tricky and difficult for sure b/c of constant life losses, but probably adequate. Could have passed lava about 3 turns faster, slowed down b/c was close to losing a Thunderer.

Finally, the last trolls chamber - terribly tough, mostly b/c of time pressure and difficult terrain/choke points, where it is very easy to have your butt beat.

5) Do you think the scenario was fun?
7/10, could be better.

Overall, I truly had a feeling this scenario is putting everything in a way to make me lose. Each part of it is no more than 7/10 by itself, it's the combination of everything plus serious turn limit makes me give it 10/10 difficulty score. I think it is too tough, but probably, just one thing will make it "adequate": give the party more time, probably another 15 turns is the right number. It should feel like a moderately cautious exploration/offence, not a crazy rush.

Also, the subquests seem interesting but the reward is not attractive enough, maybe I just don't get it.

Lava is implemented strange if you think about it, honestly I don't like it. Come on, standing in lava at any point should mean death for a human. You can say "units hop from island to island", but these are pretty "olympic" hops I'd say: a dwarf can "jump" over 4 hexes!

Last thing, the final dialogue, a dwarf breaching through the wall and a talk "why didn't they let us use this passage" was ridiculous. Just make him arrive from behind, probably even travelling your path, and it will look appropriate.
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