Scenario Review: NR 13 - Showdown

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Scenario Review: NR 13 - Showdown

Post by Content Feedback » March 12th, 2008, 12:19 pm

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
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Nova
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Re: Scenario Review: NR 13 - Showdown

Post by Nova » May 12th, 2008, 3:52 pm

I apologize - my search for the proper forum thread went unrewarded, so I'm posting here.

Showdown:

Bugs: Anita's name is changed to Teri, for some reason.
Possible: there is not a reason given why the defeat of the two undead mages should have any impact on Tallin's ability to defeat Rakshas, now that the orc leader is cornered and surrounded. They remain crucial for victory, however, while Krash and Anita can be thrown away.


Epilogue:

Bugs: Neither Hamel nor Anita speak any of their lines, although Tallin still responds to them. (They're both alive and standing there).
Small grammatical typos. It makes the dialogue feel more rushed and unpolished than elsewhere.
Stalrag speaks, but is not represented by a unit. For that matter, it's not clear where he's been since he was first met.
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Re: Scenario Review: NR 13 - Showdown

Post by Diendiadre » September 19th, 2008, 5:27 am

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
The normal setting, or rather the setting in the middle I don´t recall it´s name.

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
8, a lot of enemies, but your ally, the dwarf kills a considerable amount of enemies. Indeed he kills most of the recruited enemy force. Probably because the ai decided that he and the drakes were the most easiest prey. Drakes are bloody hard to control, don´t understand how you can be good in this difficult race. The only thing they seem to be good at is dying and absorbing damage.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Well, it´s the typical kill mission. The evil cheiftain of orcs is finally going to meet his doom, hopefully anyways...

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
This is one of the best dialogues in all of the game. Yes, the game, not the campaign. I also like this campaign better then even an heir to the throne. The feeling of the characters is just wonderful. I really care for the characters involved in this campaign.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
I didn´t have too many major challenges. I had plenty of money for all three sides. However I couldn´t really handle the drakes. Indeed I must say that I´m a really lousy general of drakes and I never got many passed level 2. Killing of all those level 3:s were difficult, but once you get over the watergrave, its mostly just a game of patience.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
9, this is by far one of the funniest scenarios in all of wesnoth. I wish everyone could play it, unfortunately considering how difficult some of the scenarios are and the amount of thinking necessary to finish a few of them, I don´t think many will...

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
I don´t know, it´s such a good scenario, it´s hard to improve upon, perhaps some more terrain for the human side of the map, however that wouldn´t really play into the humans hands.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
I actually didn´t lose the game even once. However the same couldn´t be said about the scenarios of the rest of the campaign. I came close to losing a few of my important party members while attacking the fort from the east. I had more level 3 humans then of any other race, so using them to attack seemed like a good idea. However it also endangered the important party members a little. My numbers were such that it still wasn´t that difficult to cross into the fort and kill most of the level 3 orcs inside.

(9) If you know a bit of the Wesnoth Markup Language - do you think that the WML of this scenario is clear and well commented? If not which part would you like to be documented better?

I don´t know wesnoth markup language.

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Re: Scenario Review: NR 13 - Showdown

Post by Death » January 13th, 2009, 7:58 am

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
Nightmare

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
at first, 9, then 5

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
clear

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
It was fine. I would've liked to see the generals say something when I killed them. It would've made it a little more worth it. The Heroes' battle cries at the beginning are super cheesy. Could be cooler.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Oh my GOD. At first, I thought this scenario would be fun and easy: Underrecruit, play some defense, let all the orcs run out of money, then churn and burn right to the middle.

But no. It turns out that you CAN'T leave Hamel alone. The AI is so beyond stupid, that despite being the closest attraction to the orcs, ALL the dwarves charge into the grassland just outside the mountains to get slaughtered. Ugggggh (is that seriously the best they can do?)


I tried several things to remedy this, such as attacking with all 3 sides to draw off the pressure, or sending all my recalled elves and drakes to help the dwarven D, but none of it worked. The dwarves die way, WAY, too easily. I think they only way to save the AI that dumb is to literally migrate BOTH the drakes and the elves over to the west mountains, in order to hold off as long as possible. In all likelihood, even that would be insufficient to actually turn the kill tide.

Finally, FINALLY, about 9 turns into another experiment, I had the bright idea to use my multiplayer knowledge to assume control of Hamel's AI. This lead me to save several dwarves and to evacuate Hammy down South. But jeee-zoos, there were rows of orcs 7-8 deep behind that!!! Honestly, I can hardly imagine a way to win besides just yanking the reins. As I had Ham evacuated, I luckily managed to avoid fighting that huge, huge clump of enemy troops as my main force (east) had already broken hard into the fort, enough to reach the leaders (who had just run out of gold).


(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
8. Ok, maybe 9. For this campaign, it was nice to have such a huge battle. I dislike the utter vulnerability of AI Hamel, though.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Give the player Hamel control. Or else change the AI to do something significantly less stupid.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
Yeah, mass dwarven suicide.

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Re: Scenario Review: NR 13 - Showdown

Post by hoopslam » March 5th, 2009, 1:04 am

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
Second easiest setting, I think Hard?

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
If you didn't have to go through the Eastern Fortress level, a 9 but after that level, everything seems easy. 6

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Very clear

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
As already mentioned by Death, the battle cries are lame. Also, more dialogue during the middle of the battle, like when you first breach the fortress or when a enemy leader dies.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
If you managed to keep your good units alive throughout the campaign like I managed, this scenario's a cakewalk. Just out-mass the enemy and run them over from all sides.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
4. Somewhat anticlimactic after the epic Eastern Fort battle. While playing this level, I kept thinking to myself that there'd be a surprise ambush or reinforcement that would arrive to help out the Orcs but that never happened and I was left disappointed by a somewhat weak ending to an otherwise Biblical campaign.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Surprise waves of reinforcement for the Orcs. More dialogue/trash talking from the enemy. Maybe some Nagas coming from the northeast lake, anchored by some level 3 sea monsters that they control or some trolls coming from the northwestern hills and hidden assassins in the southern forest. If the player as the drakes + the elves + the dwarves helping, this level's too easy. For every ally the humans have, I think the orcs should have one of the above mentioned allies. So like if the Humans enter this level with no drake allies, the nagas don't show up. if no elves, no assassins, etc...

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
No, contrary to what was said above, Hamel and the dwarves faired quite well against the orcs when I played. It could be that I drew all of the orcs to the east when I aggressively attacked their eastern walls at the beginning. Also maybe because I had both the Drakes and the Elves helping me out.

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Re: Scenario Review: NR 13 - Showdown

Post by beetlenaut » May 10th, 2009, 9:13 pm

I am very annoyed that the elves don't get their recalls! I leveled up two of them in the previous scenario--carefully, and all that XP is wasted. This is not how BfW is supposed to work! Krash gets his recall list if he's alive, and not if he's dead, so why can't the same be done for Anita? Another way to clear her recall list if she's not alive is to have all the elves leave if she's killed. The fact that you saved her is the only reason they joined in the first place.

I have also had Hamal die when he suicided into the orcs. It's hard to get enough elves and drakes there fast enough to help out, and the AI is idiotic. Also, why is it that you can't lose Hamal?! You can lose Anita or Krash. (I don't know why you can't lose the brothers at this point either. It seems to be a random list of hero characters.)
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Re: Scenario Review: NR 13 - Showdown

Post by Bjartmarr » May 14th, 2009, 4:07 am

Wesnoth v. 1.6, difficulty level hard

The scenario is great -- seems that somebody improved the dwarf's tendency to get himself killed. But there's something wrong with the AI in this scenario: the computer's turns are taking FOREVER. As soon as it starts its turn it will attack me a bunch, fairly quickly, but after that it will shuffle its guys around inside the castle...with each move taking 15-40 seconds! With some 200-odd computer moves per turn, I pretty much have to go off and do something else while waiting for the computer to finish its turn. Was there a big AI change in 1.6?

(edit: I just went and took a shower while waiting for the computer to finish its turn. And it's STILL not done!)

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Re: Scenario Review: NR 13 - Showdown

Post by Ilanin » May 14th, 2009, 9:57 pm

Bjartmarr wrote:Wesnoth v. 1.6, difficulty level hard

The scenario is great -- seems that somebody improved the dwarf's tendency to get himself killed. But there's something wrong with the AI in this scenario: the computer's turns are taking FOREVER. As soon as it starts its turn it will attack me a bunch, fairly quickly, but after that it will shuffle its guys around inside the castle...with each move taking 15-40 seconds! With some 200-odd computer moves per turn, I pretty much have to go off and do something else while waiting for the computer to finish its turn. Was there a big AI change in 1.6?

(edit: I just went and took a shower while waiting for the computer to finish its turn. And it's STILL not done!)
See the "Wesnoth is SLOW" thread in the tech support forums. I actually graphed how long it was taking the AI to play (it's a S-curve vs number of units, or seems to be). Fortunately this lead to
1.6.2 complete changelog wrote: Improved performance a bit on maps with lots of units (e.g., NR-Showdown)
so I'd suggest updating and trying again.

As for my opinion about the scenario, I love it, but Anita really really should get her recall list and there's nothing preventing this in WML. I know this because I hacked the WML into giving her it :). Speaking of which, the WML is really rather well written and as a novice I could pick it up very easily.
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akratic
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Re: Scenario Review: NR 13 - Showdown

Post by akratic » May 31st, 2009, 10:09 pm

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?

Normal

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

2

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Very clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

This campaign has my favorite dialog and storyline, and this scenario did not disappoint.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

I think there are some bugs as of version 1.6.2:
- In the previous "Get the Gold" Scenario, I won the scenario keeping Sisal alive, but I never actually got any gold from it. I started this level with Tallin: 2200, Krash: 1905, Anita: 100. This is the gold that carried over from winning the previous scenario quickly, not the big stolen amount.
- Anita starting with 100 gold made her kind of pointless. In addition, Tallin, Krash, and Hamel started with all their surrounding towns captured, but Anita had to do this herself.

Each enemy turn also took about 10 minutes of "AI thinking" time.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

2. It was fun at first to play such a huge scenario, but Wesnoth doesn't handle it very well with huge lag times, etc. Also this scenario was too easy.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

Here is how the scenario played out for me: I made a push with my main forces from the east on the second turn. The enemy responded by sending literally every single Orc and Troll east (except for the leaders and the stationary level 3s). The force was so overwhelming that I had to retreat to the keep, which was incredibly easy to hold with dwarves lining the walls.

Meanwhile, Hamel and his dwarves smashed through the relatively unprotected west side, taking out both west leaders and Rashkas by turn 11. (Maybe Hamel had the missing 10,000 gold?) This was also when my drakes broke through the north. By turn 12 it was over, although there was an entire field full of untouched high-level Orcs and Trolls hanging out in the east.

By this time Anita had managed to capture the towns around her and save enough gold to recruit a few Sorceresses. :shock:

This scenario seems broken: the enemy AI is strange, what happened with Anita felt like a bug, and the load times were painful for the first time in Wesnoth.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?

Nope. Normally I save all the time just in case, but in this scenario my important units were never in danger, so I never even saved.

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Re: Scenario Review: NR 13 - Showdown

Post by silent » June 1st, 2009, 12:15 pm

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
Spearman (challenging) 1.6
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
2. Contrary to everyone else, Hamel was great at ripping apart the Orcs from the western flank, and wasn't suicidal in the slightest. Dwarven lord spam meant no orcs were going to break me.
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear enough, although when I saved, and resumed later, I got a message saying no objectives available for this scenario
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Battle cries, despite everyone else's opinions, make perfect sense if you follow the story, Anita is enraged about Hidel's death, Krash is thankful for rescue, Hamel for the dwarves, Ro'Arthian so he can finally rest, Zlex for dwarven doors and Tallin representing the entire north.
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
None, And I came in with about only 400 gold because stupid sisal in the last scenario went suicidal, even before the drakes could fly over to help
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
8. The lag and dwarven lord reliance really takes away from what is a great campaign (especially because of the drakes), but the usage of huge drake tanks is ridiculously fun.
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Asides from the problems that occur with the elves, one major issue with this campaign in general. Far too much emphasis on dwarven lords: Why bother to level other units when about 14 dwarven lords will get you through the campaign? there is no reason. Perhaps half your dwarf lords go off to help hamel in this scenario so that it places emphasis on leveling other units and not just repeatedly AMLAing your dwarven lords
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
No
(9) If you know a bit of the Wesnoth Markup Language - do you think that the WML of this scenario is clear and well commented? If not which part would you like to be documented better?
N/A

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Re: Scenario Review: NR 13 - Showdown

Post by nuorc » September 3rd, 2009, 7:51 pm

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
Easiest (v1.6.2).

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
5.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
10.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Dialog & storyline are fine. Maybe the battle cries (and the romantic part of the epilogue) are a bit cheesy, but I just took it with a sense of humor. I don't really understand why everything is lost when one of the lichs dies; it seems a little random and could use at least a explanation.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
None.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
2, the way it worked out for me...

Anita had 100 gold and no recall list. So she invited five friends to claim the villages and then sit in the trees and enjoy the silence of the forrest...

Maybe it's me, but I don't think Drakes are good for much; so they were about holding a line with moderate losses.

All enemy armies went east to attack me; with ~200 L2 Orcs and Trolls occupying nearly every hex between my and the enemy castle, it wasn't really time to go out. So I kept my lines closed & my units alive, levelled a few units... That's fine for some time, but basically 'my' three factions sat and watched Hamel kill the enemy leaders...

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Give Anita more start gold & a recall list. (If you want, change her name, because I think 'Anita' is a pretty common earth name.)

Make the enemy armies care when their homebase is overrun & their leaders killed. Instead they patiently waited to get served at my walls (up to 8 in a row!), while their leaders, including their supreme leader, get attacked?

Probably not an option, but I think the Drakes could become a little stronger, at least L1. (Low chance of hitting, low damage, high chance to get hit, no healing units...)

Personally, 'Eastern Flank' would have worked fine as a final scenario. Unlike other players, I also was able to maintain a line and no enemies spawned behind it.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
Nope.

(9) If you know a bit of the Wesnoth Markup Language - do you think that the WML of this scenario is clear and well commented? If not which part would you like to be documented better?
N/A

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Re: Scenario Review: NR 13 - Showdown

Post by Eros » October 20th, 2009, 9:24 am

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?

easy

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

1: very easy just long and tedious. Get Hamel to do the dirty work just hide behind your fortifications. I had 36 Dwarvish lords at this point so the whols campaign is bone easy.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

clear

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

good

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

none

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

long LoNg LONG

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

give you an option for the ai to control anita plus krash

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?

no

(9) If you know a bit of the Wesnoth Markup Language - do you think that the WML of this scenario is clear and well commented? If not which part would you like to be documented better?

fine
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Re: Scenario Review: NR 13 - Showdown

Post by Slice_n_Dice » October 30th, 2009, 10:17 pm

I really enjoyed playing the Northern Rebirth campaign. I played the "Hard" mode. To think that you start out as a lowly peasant....

As kind of a fun epilogue to the Showdown level, I've positioned Tallin's army and the Krash's army for some "Gladiator" action around the center castle. Of course if you attack with the full force of both armies, you will crush the remaining orcs easily. But what if you only bring forth a handful of your best fighters? For the beginner player; maybe 5 or 6 fighters from each army? For the seasoned veteran, maybe 3 or 4 fighters from each army?

Note on the enemy: The Orc has a little coin (513 gold), and he's not afraid to spend it. The Orcs will probably get distracted and attack the mass of spectators in each group. Just rotate any weakened spectators to the upper decks. The spectators must not attack or aid the Gladiators.

Note on Hamel: Hamel is alive and well. He will supply a trickle of level 2 Dwarves into the arena from the West. These Dwarves will possibly help you (or just get in your way).

Note or Eryssa: You'll need to skip through Eryssa's turn each round. But you cannot move the Elves to aid you! (What good are healers in a fight to the death anyway?)

I like to play with 3 fighters from each army:
Tallin Gladiators (Dwarvish Lord, Dwarvish Lord, Ro'Arthian)
Krash Gladiators (Drake Warden, Drake Warden, Inferno Drake)

Let me know what you think of the Gladiator Arena!
What number and combination of fighters work well for you?
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SagSchlahne
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Re: Scenario Review: NR 13 - Showdown

Post by SagSchlahne » December 12th, 2009, 9:37 pm

Woohoo first Reply :)

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
- Easy, Version 1.7.6 I guess
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
- 4, it's actually just overrunning the Orcs from three sides yourself with the Dwarves from attacking from the west and taking out all leaders but one
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
- Very clear, just kill every enemy leader
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
- I liked it, but I guess Rashkas could say something of more importance when he dies.
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
- Hamel running out of his keep uncontrolled to try and kill an enemy unit, which he didn't manage and getting slain in return & loosing one of the two liches by not paying attention
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
- 7; the story is good, but I think it takes far too long to play with all the units
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
- maybe give all the players less gold and small the map
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
- loosing a key unit by accident
(9) If you know a bit of the Wesnoth Markup Language - do you think that the WML of this scenario is clear and well commented? If not which part would you like to be documented better?
- n.a

asketenbert
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Re: Scenario Review: NR 13 - Showdown

Post by asketenbert » June 10th, 2010, 8:46 pm

Nightmare
Move with Krash to the kept of Hamel and with Tallin to the kept of the elves. Then it will be an easy win. Hamel hasn´t such a stupid behavior as his units.

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