Scenario Review: Liberty 8 - Glory

Feedback for the mainline campaign Liberty.

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Konrad2
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Re: Scenario Review: Liberty 8 - Glory

Post by Konrad2 »

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?

Difficult, 1.14.0

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

4

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Very much.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

I liked it.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

Weird ally behavior. (Minor Challenge at most.)

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

8

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

Some interactions between the Elensefar riders and Baldras.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?

No.
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Liberty-Glory replay.gz
I ordered Helicrom to be defensive and to focus on protecting me. He sure doesn't know what that means.
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LordWolfDan
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Re: Scenario Review: Liberty 8 - Glory

Post by LordWolfDan »

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?

- 1.14.5, Easy

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

- 5

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

- Clear, destroy the supports to take down Halstead

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

- Love it. Along with HttT so far, this has to be one of the best endings in Wesnoth campaign. Where TSG failed after building a promising story, Libery redeemed it with this one and made one of the best endings. Plus the after level narration is good. The village does get sadly burned down, yet it shows the fear given by the people of Wesnoth who were forced to become outlaws for the greater good of kingdom

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

- Royal guards, yet if they weren't too suicidal, it'd have been much more challenging.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

- 7

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

- Make Dommel and Royal Guards less sucidial by not going on the field but to stay behind the lines in the forts.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?

- No
YanTanTethera
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Re: Scenario Review: Liberty 8 - Glory

Post by YanTanTethera »

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Difficult, version 1.14.5.

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
4. With the help of the shadow mages, the Elensefarians and the orcs the defenders of the fortress were so distracted, that they opened up holes in their defense through which my outlaws and fugitives could easily sneak in order to blow up the fortress. I remember from former playthroughs, that without the help of the mages the scenario was a lot more difficult.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
It would be nice to write the way to destroy the fortress into the objectives.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
I found it both clear and interesting, although I would have wished for an earlier hint on some secret knowledge on how to destroy the fortress. Otherwise it seems like sheer madness, that Baldras marches his troops there. A second remark: maybe the orc army is a bit over the top, given the fact that orcs were fighting on the queen’s side before (Scenario 3 – A strategy of hope)

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Uhm, finding gaps in the defensive lines for my outlaws to pass through. But I found them.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
7, since it is an interesting task to sneak units through enemy ranks like that. And blowing up a fortress, too.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Maybe remove the orc army and make the Elensefarian knights a bit stronger instead.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
No, there wasn’t, since Harper’s dead does not result in a lost game here. He did sadly not return from his venture into the fortress catacombs.
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josteph
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Re: Scenario Review: Liberty 8 - Glory

Post by josteph »

YanTanTethera wrote: January 3rd, 2019, 4:45 pm A second remark: maybe the orc army is a bit over the top, given the fact that orcs were fighting on the queen’s side before (Scenario 3 – A strategy of hope)
It might be a different tribe than the one that's in Asheviere's service. It's not unusual for different orcish tribes to be on different sides.
YanTanTethera
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Re: Scenario Review: Liberty 8 - Glory

Post by YanTanTethera »

Thanks for the remark, I did not look at it like that before.
romans1x20
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Re: Scenario Review: Liberty 8 - Glory

Post by romans1x20 »

My strategy is just divide my man heading east and west, storming the west together with horses. For the tunnels in the east I actually sneak in by the passable mountain tile, instead of the main gate. That saves lots of trouble as tough loyalists are gathering at the gate for the orcs. Don't know why the royal guard go out to slay the orcs. Finish in 14th turn.

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
normal

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
5 as no need to conserve units
350 gold
can recruit mages, no mage ally

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
ok

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Very good. Epic battle of heir to throne, in contrast this a epic sneak. Suits the outlaw very much.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
tough guards blocking the way

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
9

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
no
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
no
helling3r
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Joined: April 11th, 2019, 7:16 pm

Re: Scenario Review: Liberty 8 - Glory

Post by helling3r »

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Hardest available, v1.14.5

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
10. In fact it was unwinnable for me at hard. I tried about 9 times with different tactics as well.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Very clear. The trapdoors are hidden by the guards, but it is clearly explained what the goal is. It may be an idea to have the trap doors empty at first and the first turn of the opponent mans them.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Very nice! I liked the emotional leaders duo with Harper.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
I tried several tactics, from rush to very defensive to only take one flank first. Neither gave me victory.
I only had about 400 in gold and could recruit the mages. The horses came to my assistance a few turns after start.
Going into detail, if i had to split up my forces, i got wiped by the guards left in the castle. If i tried to hold off the reinforcements in hope the orcs could do more damage the coming night, they wiped me and i hadn't the ressources left to do anything meaningful.
When i one try tried to hold back very defensive and try to lure the one or other enemy into my retreated lines, the reinforcements coming every dawn piled up so much, there was no hope of winning left.

The only thing that let me win this scenario was to dial back the difficulty level one notch. There, it was a piece of cake and no problem at all.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
9. The scenario is a lot of fun, especially because it is not one of the so many "kill enemy leader" ones. Instead, one has to carefully plan out his troop advancements and given the terrain, where, how, and when to attack. This gets even combined with another battle going on on the field, which may (or may not) distract enemy forces. It is tactically challenging and made me enjoy a lot of hours gotten beaten up :)
It would have been a 10 if i had any chance to win this in the first place (ok, i know the problem sits in front of the computer in this case, as others clearly made it in hard setting)

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
It was already a ton of fun. Maybe the friendly AI could act a little more toughtfully, because it threw horses consistently into spearheads.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
In hard, i had to reload very often. I started from the beginning every time in those instances.
It seemed to be mostly the case that my army was wiped or severely damaged in only one or two turns, mostly because i placed my troops badly i think. However, if i place them defensively and attack solely at night, it turns out the reinforcements will wipe me a few turns later or reinforce the castle so strong that either AI is suppressed effectively and enough remains in the castle to make it unwinnable for me.
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Zrevnur
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Re: Scenario Review: Liberty 8 - Glory

Post by Zrevnur »

Content Feedback wrote: March 10th, 2008, 11:58 pm (1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
1.14.9, Fugitive (Difficult) (in Ironman mode), played at least twice
Content Feedback wrote: March 10th, 2008, 11:58 pm (2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
4. 2 or 3 if I would have known the scripting and sabotage rules before playing
I chose the option of the allied leader appearing in this battle. My guess (based on them having 500 gold at start) is that this is by far the best alternative.
Content Feedback wrote: March 10th, 2008, 11:58 pm (3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Not properly clear. I wasnt sure if I had to let the units stay on those tiles for some time or something. Not sure I read the dialog carefully enough though. But I think the scenario objective/s should be precisly written under 'Scenario Objectives' menu point no matter what the dialog says.
Content Feedback wrote: March 10th, 2008, 11:58 pm (4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Units appearing out of nowhere. If I would have used a different strategy this might have screwed it up.
There is even a dialog - sth like "They must think Wesnoths army is spread out right now." - which implies that Wesnoths army is not spread out. If new troops are joining later - doesnt that imply that they are spread out?
And the fortress killing is too contrived for my taste.
Content Feedback wrote: March 10th, 2008, 11:58 pm (5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
None.
Content Feedback wrote: March 10th, 2008, 11:58 pm (6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
8
Content Feedback wrote: March 10th, 2008, 11:58 pm (7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Edit: About the 'make it harder': After reading previous post in this thread there probably is a large difficulty discrepancy based on earlier choice in what to do with the shadow mages.
Make it harder, give precise warning (in the beginning) about new units joining the enemy side at least. Logically it also makes little sense for (slow) heavy infantry to be able to just pop up here without scouts of players side (player side has much better terrain scouts) to know long before they arrive.
About the 'instruct ally' thing: The one thing which (obviously) I would want my allies do is to stay away from the orcs. This is the one most important thing but I have no idea how to make them do that. Or rephrasing: This looks more like an experiment than a useful feature to me.
In terms of 'fluff' it also makes little sense for the allies not to (try to) run out of the fortress after sabotaging it before it is destroyed.
Content Feedback wrote: March 10th, 2008, 11:58 pm (8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
No, I played the campaign without reloading and scenario restarting.
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IceTyp
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Re: Scenario Review: Liberty 8 - Glory

Post by IceTyp »

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Fugitive (Difficult), 1.15.5
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
5, This scenario could more difficult (on the highest difficulty). I easily managed to beat it in less than half of the turns.
Maybe I had too much gold available.
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
clear
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
clear
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
I had no major challenges. The scenario is basically about finding the right time to reach the outposts. This is usually at night.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
6, I liked that there are multiple sides supporting you. There is a lot of variety in this scenario because of these sides.
Therefore, each outpost needs a different approach to reach.
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
I would decrease the turn limit (on the highest difficulty) to make this scenario more challenging.
The starting gold could also be too high for this, especially since it is the last scenario. So your income can be negative without any disadvantage.
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
no
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Konrad2
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Re: Scenario Review: Liberty 7 - Glory

Post by Konrad2 »

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?

1.15.5, Outlaw (Normal), 1.15.6, Fugitve (Hard)

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

6, your leaders are always safe.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

I like the new reason for the orcish attack.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

Distracting the guards so I could sneak by.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

7

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

-

Scenario stats normal:
Spoiler:
Campaign stats normal:
Spoiler:
Scenario stats hard:
Spoiler:
Campaign stats hard:
Spoiler:
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Lord-Knightmare
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Re: Scenario Review: Liberty 8 - Glory

Post by Lord-Knightmare »

Content Feedback wrote: March 10th, 2008, 11:58 pm (1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
1. Normal (the middle one), Wesnoth 1.15.11+dev
2. 7/10
3. 10/10
4. I like this scenario a lot. Storming the most fortified Citadel of Wesnoth. This is certainly something epic.
5. The major challenge was no longer present in Normal as Liberty was rebalanced as a novice-level campaign. There was still the challenge of getting into fortress and quickly taking down a support.
6. 9/10
7. Maybe make my Elensefar ally avoid those support hexes? He placed a lancer on it and I had to wait until it died to trigger the final support.
8. Not really, but I did nearly get Baldras to death's door due to exposing him to three units.
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Remellion
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Re: Scenario Review: Liberty 8 - Glory

Post by Remellion »

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
1.15.14, Outlaw (Normal). Also sometime back in 1.12 or something.

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
9/10 to try straight up beating the Wesnoth troops. To simply meet the mission objectives would have been simpler, but why not go for the gusto?

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Crystal clear. Go to corners of fortress and knock it down.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
The exchanges between Dommel and the Orc leader were great fun, and it was a nice surprise to see the Elensefar knights appear (well I did remember that bit, but still). The only strange bit was the Wesnoth reinforcements attacking the orcs that were supposed to be part of said reinforcements, but that could be put down to the open hostilities between them and Halstead by that point.

Very clear and consistent writing throughout the whole campaign. Bravo.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Other than the sheer numbers and the income of Dommel's forces, and the regular reinforcements at dawn? No, nothing else that I can think of.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
10/10. It's set up like an epic battle, it feels like an epic battle, it is an epic battle. We can either win via stealthily taking the trapdoors all outlaw-like, or by just beating down the front door for glory (on Normal at least. I remember the hardest difficulty being an epic brawl with the Knights, the orcs, old Helicrom's forces, our outlaws, and the loyalist forces that was almost impossible to fully win.)

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
How?

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
None, but my final plays with sending Harper straight into Dommel's face could have made that happen.
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nemaara
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Re: Scenario Review: Liberty 8 - Glory

Post by nemaara »

Thanks for the feedback, I did a lot of work on this campaign in 1.15 so happy to see it turned out well. ^_^
mal_shubertal
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Re: Scenario Review: Liberty 8 - Glory

Post by mal_shubertal »

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
1.16.2 Fugitive (Challenging)
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
8. I came into it the first time with way too many Huntsmen and not enough Fugitives or starting gold, so I had to go back and replay the last couple scenarios to get the right recall list. I think if I were a better tactical player I could have figured out how to pick just the right moment to steal a victory, but I preferred to just come in with overwhelming force and do a frontal assault.
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
very
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Very. I played this campaign years ago, actually before I played HttT, so now that I'm playing it again I'm catching all the references to the HttT storyline, which is FANTASTIC. I LOVE the idea that Harper and Baldras and company later meet Konrad himself on the Isle of the Damned. And the writing for the Orc leader is hilarious, “Your army is as useless as you are pink” just cracks me up.
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
It's COMPLICATED. The 3 sides interact with each other in unexpected ways, and then your interaction with them also changes their interaction with each other. There are lots of units running around, and the AI operates in an interesting way, where it actually seems to "guard" the corners, but not just by staying totally still, so I had to experiment to see what it took to bait them out. Even the layout is surprisingly complicated, you have to pay close attention to which mountains are impassible, and which parts of the interior of the fortress are 'castle' vs. 'flat'. Which is why I decided to just go with the brute force method!
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
10. Super fun! I like how many ways there are to play it. There are some subtle aspects of it that I really appreciate. Like, the AI has SO MANY PIKEMEN, which are ordinarily a pretty unremarkable unit, but their pierce resistance means that your poacher-type units are MUCH less desirable in this scenario, and it gives the shadow mages a chance to really shine, with their combination of high movement speed and magic cold attacks.
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
It's a work of art, I really like it!
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
I came into it the first time with 4 Huntsmen and no Fugitives, due to some unusual choices earlier in the campaign, and I ended up going back and significantly changing my approach from a couple scenarios back.
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