Scenario Review: Liberty 7 - The Hunters

Feedback for the mainline campaign Liberty.

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fareley
Posts: 66
Joined: September 10th, 2008, 5:45 pm

Re: Scenario Review: Liberty 7 - The Hunters

Post by fareley »

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
1.12.0 Hard no reloads

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
3

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Pretty unclear actually. It says "another platoon arrives". Does it imply more platoons will follow? Why can't I fight the platoon head on? What happens if it joins forces with the main army?

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
See (3)

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Nothing really. Recruited enough cannon fodder along with some quality units, leveled up some melee units as you can probably recruit/recall enough Outlaws on the last scenario anyway.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
4 - It is somewhat confusing and even the big scary army poses no threat at night in the open.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Not sure actually. Make the killing of platoons more interesting? Give the big scary army some tents?

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
Went right through on the first attempt without any trouble (losing one or the other unit isn't trouble if you still end up with plenty leveled units and don't lose important ones).

(9) If you know a bit of the Wesnoth Markup Language - do you think that the WML of this scenario is clear and well commented? If not which part would you like to be documented better?
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tr0ll
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Re: Scenario Review: Liberty 7 - The Hunters

Post by tr0ll »

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?

1.13.6 normal

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

6

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

very

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

good

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

order of recall/recruit so that troops are placed properly to stop movement of enemy

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

7

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

add a random villager interaction

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?

no
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Konrad2
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Re: Scenario Review: Liberty 7 - The Hunters

Post by Konrad2 »

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?

1.14.0, Difficult

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

4 (Probably because I had so much leftover gold from grey woods)

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Very much.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

I liked it. :)

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

None.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

8

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

Make another platoon arrive (just like they do in the next scenario, like, why shouldn't they be arriving?)
And maybe add a random village(r) interaction, just like the Troll before me said. :D

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?

No.
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LordWolfDan
Posts: 216
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Re: Scenario Review: Liberty 7 - The Hunters

Post by LordWolfDan »

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?

- 1.14.5, Easy

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

- 4

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

- Clear, kill both enemy leaders

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

- It's good as ever. Some may see this scenario as a filler, but it clearly shows that Baldras, Harper and their men are going to take extreme measures to oppose queen and that they're in dire need to save the village before it gets burned to ground.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

- Mostly dealing with enemies during daytime, but by the night, they have become corpses, LOL

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

- 6

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

- Can't think of any changes. It's good as it is.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?

- No
YanTanTethera
Posts: 9
Joined: July 11th, 2018, 11:41 am

Re: Scenario Review: Liberty 7 - The Hunters

Post by YanTanTethera »

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Difficult, version 1.14.5.

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
4,. After pelting the incoming brigade with stones, it was pretty straightforward.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Crystal clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

I like Baldras’ emotional speech in the beginning, and the decision to “gnaw away at” the Wesnothian army.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Out on the plains, keeping the line straight, not losing important units to riders.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
8. The guerilla warfare intermezzo at the beginning is a lot of fun, and so is pulling the ring around the enemy’s keep closer and closer.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
None, it’s fine as it is.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
No, there was no such thing.
Zrevnur
Posts: 117
Joined: January 11th, 2020, 12:04 pm

Re: Scenario Review: Liberty 7 - The Hunters

Post by Zrevnur »

Content Feedback wrote: March 10th, 2008, 11:57 pm (1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
1.14.9, Fugitive (Difficult) (in Ironman mode), played at least twice
Content Feedback wrote: March 10th, 2008, 11:57 pm (2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
4
Content Feedback wrote: March 10th, 2008, 11:57 pm (3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear. But units suddenly appearing made me guess that there could be more random unexpected stuff happening. I dont like this in a strategy game as it makes it a "guess the scripter" game instead.
Content Feedback wrote: March 10th, 2008, 11:57 pm (4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
A bit artificial. Its really just a big fight. The gameplay reality of the scenario doesnt fit properly with the dialog with "harass and delay" - its "kill them all".
Content Feedback wrote: March 10th, 2008, 11:57 pm (5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
None other than me expecting something to happen due to scripting.
Some (not major) challenge was gold maximization though. Winning the scenario is very easy - the enemy forces arent strong enough. But without map control or fast win I would end up without proper gold bonus.
Content Feedback wrote: March 10th, 2008, 11:57 pm (6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
4
Content Feedback wrote: March 10th, 2008, 11:57 pm (7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Dont know. Wesnoth campaigns need more "trust the scripter to not screw with players" (like Undead popups in 'Siege of Elensefar'). This is not a particular issue with this scenario but it affected it for me.
Content Feedback wrote: March 10th, 2008, 11:57 pm (8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
No, I played the campaign without reloading and scenario restarting.
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IceTyp
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Re: Scenario Review: Liberty 7 - The Hunters

Post by IceTyp »

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Fugitive (Difficult), 1.15.5
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
8
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
clear
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
clear
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
I recruited not enough units and lost my leader in the last wave.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
9, I really enjoyed this one because there were many optional events and it had the right difficulty for me.
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
I moved too close to the northwestern castle and triggered a defeat condition.
Konrad2
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Re: Scenario Review: Liberty 6 - The Hunters

Post by Konrad2 »

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?

1.15.5, Outlaw (Normal), 1.15.6, Fugitve (Hard)

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

6, you have to pay attention to positioning.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

I like the way the three old scenarios were fused together.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

Implementing an effective pincer attack.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

7, thanks for the ghoul, the sword, and and the weird Tentacle. xD

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

-

Scenario stats normal:
Spoiler:
Scenario stats hard:
Spoiler:
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Lord-Knightmare
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Re: Scenario Review: Liberty 7 - The Hunters

Post by Lord-Knightmare »

Content Feedback wrote: March 10th, 2008, 11:57 pm (1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
1. Normal (the middle one). Wesnoth 1.15.11+dev
2. 7/10
3. 10/10
4. I really like this new rework of the scenario. Also, can a forum moderator change the title to "Liberty S6 - The Hunters" since scenarios 6 and 7 were merged? I like how Baldras meets Helicrom and instead of fighting undead, they fight off unsuspecting Loyalists patrols moving unsteadily through the eerie woods.

5. Not really a challenge, but deciding the right combination of units to place for the ambushes and repeating it 5 times, without thinning my formation due to injuries.
6. 9/10
7. No, not really.
8. Hmm, no. However, I might repeat this again because I later found out that there three easter eggs, which I missed out, and they were good ones too.
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Remellion
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Re: Scenario Review: Liberty 7 - The Hunters

Post by Remellion »

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
1.15.14, Outlaw (Normal). Also sometime back in 1.12 or something.

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
7/10. Generally alright, until the TOD shifts to day, we take some losses, then the final wave of enemies made me scramble a little to find good positioning.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Perfectly clear. Basically a tower defence game, except our towers are mobile and very potent.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Clear. I like the difference in speech patterns between Helicrom and Baldras, and the few lines by the Wesnothian troops throughout the scenario break the monotony. Also, poor Archarel, he's just waiting around for nothing.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
I was slightly surprised that I got to control Helicrom and his troops. That was not how I remembered it, and the rework is much better. Also, maybe I played it a bit one-dimensionally, but this ended up being "Footpads: the Scenario".

The TOD shift to dawn, then morning and afternoon made those waves that much harder, and then the final wave arriving so soon after was tricky to deal with for positioning, especially given the bulk of their forces had skirmish.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
10/10. I found a bunch of easter eggs, all pretty good ones. The ghoul was confusing until I noticed what needed to be done. Another easter egg essentially gave me 3 or 4 levels on my footpads. And those aside, the core gameplay of sniping the convoys from the edges of the forest was fun - much more so than the previous version I remembered (with the long straight road and mountains?) Controlling Helicrom's units was also way more fun than the previous iteration (it used to be 2 scenarios, right?)

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
None. This was great fun already.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
No.
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mal_shubertal
Posts: 93
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Re: Scenario Review: Liberty 7 - The Hunters

Post by mal_shubertal »

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
1.16.2 Fugitive (Challenging
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
5. The enemies can hit hard and take out some of your high level mages when they get lucky, but both teams have plenty of gold and most of the scenario is night, so most of it is just being patient an picking the right time/place for your ambushes.
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
very
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
The dialogue in this whole campaign is great. Baldras obviously has his distinctive rural peasant way of talking, and the cavalry leader in the second scenario talked in his super pompous and formal aristocratic language. Helicrom comes across to me like a theater nerd, with his floppy hat and his casual latin phrases (quid pro quo), which is fun to listen to. I also like the contrast between Baldras' very straightforward and pragmatic conversations with other characters, and his much more wistful and emotional journal entries.
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Keeping the mages alive, and deciding when to keep units in the trees versus move some onto the path to encircle the enemies.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
10. A lot of novel elements, like the new unit types, coordinating 2 separate teams, unusual day/night cycle, the unpredictable enemy force composition, and the way each patrol was a little different, so it was like 5 mini-scenarios where you could plan each ambush accordingly. All the easter eggs were fun too, it encourages you to look at the whole map closely. I also just really like the visuals, the shadow mages' little swords look so cool!
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
I'm not sure if this would make it 'more fun'. But definitely 'more clear'. The scenario objectives say that there is no early finish bonus, but that isn't true. When you actually finish the scenario, it does calculate an early finish bonus. Telling the player that there is an early finish bonus allows them to play more aggressively, like I did my second time around, to get more starting gold for Glory. Similarly, At the end of the scenario it calculates 'carryover gold for the next scenario' for BOTH of your teams, Baldras' and Helicrom's, but ONLY Baldras' carryover gold actually affects your starting gold in Glory. Helicrom's just disappears. This was all super confusing for me, as I am not great at math and I had to actually pull out a calculator to figure out what was going on. So making all of this clearer at the start of the scenario would be very helpful.
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
I had a very tough time with the next scenario, Glory, so I came back and replayed this scenario so I could get better carryover gold and advancements.
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JimJim
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Re: Scenario Review: Liberty 7 - The Hunters

Post by JimJim »

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Highest, 1.16.5

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
1 - Super Easy

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Very clear

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
I skip those, sorry.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Found the key, didn't find a use for it.
Moved a Footpad to the seamonster only to find that a stronger unit is needed.
Found the sword and moved a Huntsman to it, but neither would he pick it up
nor did I get any comment hinting at who would be able to take it ... so I expected
a change of mission at some point or some action after the end of the scenario ...
now I have the key and no sword and a living seamonster and frankly this does
not fit the usual mechanics in this game which I play for many years now.
Since Wesnoth does not zoom for high-res monitors it is hard for my old eyes
to make out faint detail in that fog ...

--> Now I found the info about the key ... My men came to the tomb before finding
the key. I think it would be better that in such a case the ghoul gets released when
the key is found. Not fun having to go back to an already visited place when you
find the key ... or maybe there should be a hint that the key belongs to the tomb.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
7..8 ... nice level-up for units ... frustrating side challenges as described above.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
When a unit moves on that sword show a hit how to obtain it.
Place the seamonster in a more accessible place.
Make the hidden items better visible.
Maybe add an outbreak from the garrison at the end as the commander started
to worry about the missing arrival of the patrols. Any normal commander would
send a search party, right ?

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
Well, if I want that sword I'll have to restart the scenario and redo everything ... not something
I really want to do :-( ... Otherwise no, the enemy was really easy to overcome ...
JL42
Posts: 66
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Re: Scenario Review: Liberty 7 - The Hunters

Post by JL42 »

What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
v. 1.16.10
Fugitive / Challenging
How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
7
How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Mostly clear. Similar to the other maps I think the "special objectives" (sword, crypt, whirlpool, shack) need to be marked/clarified somehow, so that it isn't necessary to read the walkthrough to figure them out and decide how to plan your actions. It's a bit frustrating that the only alternative is to try to go explore those with different units, and then restart after you figure out what they actually do.

I also found it a bit unclear and unexpected how the time-of-day moves differently than normal here. That seems like another thing that should be flagged for the player somehow so that we know how to plan our actions. I really like this feature of the map, since it prompts you to make a long retreat and then a sustained night attack, but again I had to rely on the walkthrough to try to figure out what is going on there and what to expect.
How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Same awfulness as in the rest of the campaign. This is such a great story; please fix the writing!
What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Simply defeating the enemies without getting too many of my units killed, especially during the last few patrols. Also, it can be a bit tricky to work with the sequence of turns, since the shadow mages go just before the enemy turn. I was trying to feed some XP to the mages, but got in trouble because that left them exposed to retaliation before the other units could move forward and block. That ended up producing a couple of restarts before I learned to be more cautious.
How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
8 – This is a really well-designed map in the gameplay sense – I felt that it was an improvement over the previous version (which was already pretty good). In one patrol after I killed most of the enemies the survivors fled back to join with the next upcoming patrol, which was kind of cool. It was definitely a solid challenge to deal with the final skirmisher enemies, and it really fit the bandit theme of holding back and waiting for dark to set up an ambush. Overall really great design.
What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Fix/revert the writing, and add some kind of notice about the "special objectives."

Another potential complaint here is that the mechanic about being "spotted" by the outpost works differently compared to the Hide and Seek scenario just before. In the previous scenario, it's OK to move into a guard's vision range as long as you end your turn outside the range. In this scenario it *immediately* fails if you enter a vision tile, even if you still have movement to get back out of sight. This resulted in a restart for me because I was just scouting the area, thinking I could move back out of range. Would recommend either changing that behavior to be consistent, or else flagging it somehow ("These guards are more alert than those around Carcyn; as soon as we enter their sight they will mobilize.")

---------------
About the Overall Campaign:

The maps in this campaign are generally solid and well-done. I like the revisions to the last few scenarios; these are big changes but they seem like an improvement over the old maps. Challenging, interesting, and well-balanced.

But, ugh ... the writing! The "dialect" here feels horribly off and inconsistent. The characters sound like some kind of city-slicker's sarcastic, mocking fantasy of rural people. (A lot of it actually sounds to me more like caricatured Urban Black English, rather than rural speech patterns; but it's false and inconsistent regardless.) Makes it very hard to develop sympathy and identity for the heroes because they come across as goofy caricatures. It's really difficult to write dialect without these problems so I would suggest just not doing it.

In addition, Baldras now comes across mostly as a sad-sack, with no real integrity, ingenuity, agency, or legitimate grievance. It just reeks of the attitude that these people, the actual heroes, are inept and dumb. Also, I understand wanting to make the ending more optimistic, but this also really weakens and eviscerates the story. There are still some high points, like the Monty Python references, but I seem to remember liking this one much better in the past, with the story being its high point. Now it just feels like a bad joke making fun of rural folks; completely ruins the enjoyment.

The "points of interest" throughout the various scenarios are a good addition, but it would be better if they were flagged somehow. Either with a graphical label ("Harper's Spare Bag") or through dialogue ("I left my bag in the northwest; if I can make it up there to pick it up then I'll be able to throw more rocks!") These work well as tactical objectives – deciding if it's worth leaving the battle to go after them – but it was kind of annoying to have to struggle to figure out what they actually do and who needs to go there. Eventually I just looked at the walkthrough for that information, but to avoid pointless hassles it should be clarified in the game itself.

Overall I'd give this campaign 3 out of 5 stars; it would be a lot higher if it weren't for the painful writing. The maps themselves are generally good.
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