Scenario 3: Guarded Castle

Feedback for the mainline campaign A Tale of Two Brothers.

Moderator: Forum Moderators

Konrad2
Forum Moderator
Posts: 3330
Joined: November 24th, 2010, 6:30 pm

Re: Scenario 3: Guarded Castle

Post by Konrad2 »

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
Hard, 1.14.0
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
2 (probably because I remembered the passwords)
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Very clear.
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
It was clear and interesting.
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
There were none. (Very) Minor challenges: The guardian orcs and remembering the passwords.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
5
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Make it more difficult.

Stats: 232 start gold, 15/30 turns, 178 end gold, 8/8 villages, 13 units, 10 income, 0 recruits, 11 recalls, 4 advancements (2xfootpad -> outlaw, bowman-> longbowman(loyal), Arvith -> Paladin Arvith), 0 losses, 15 kills, 0% dmg dealt, -10% dmg received

EDIT: It's amazing how the sun can shine in the belly of that castle.
Attachments
AToTB-Guarded Castle replay.gz
(24.98 KiB) Downloaded 617 times
LordWolfDan
Posts: 216
Joined: September 30th, 2018, 7:31 am

Re: Scenario 3: Guarded Castle

Post by LordWolfDan »

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?

- Easy, 1.14.5.

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

- 5

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

- Again, simple. Get rid of the dark sorcerer and rescue Baran.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

- It's okay. If you want to deal with the start in a diplomatic way, better remember the passwords dark adept has given you the last scenario, but if you want more XP, go on purpose with wrong ones. But I decided to go diplomatic way instead. In older versions, the dark sorcerer doesn't mention anything about the alliance with Tairach (orcish warlord in last scenario), but I like in newer versions how he made that reluctant alliance and reveals that he'll be avenged instead of "No, I die!" Pretty cliche, huh?

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

- Just to make sure to remember passwords.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

- 6

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

- I got none here
User avatar
Tom_Of_Wesnoth
Posts: 208
Joined: January 14th, 2015, 4:03 pm
Location: Wesnoth 2020 and Wesnoth 2007

Re: Scenario 3: Guarded Castle

Post by Tom_Of_Wesnoth »

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
1.14.7 on Knight/Challenging.
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
3. It was pretty easy and straight-forward, though I imagine that's because I remembered both passwords and got out of a lot of the fighting.
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Very clear, although I was expecting the key to have to be picked up, rather than teleporting to Arvith on the other side of the map :lol:
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
The passwords were a nice touch, and really made the scenario have something a bit more unique about it.

The line with the castle being as dark as a cave felt a bit off, can't tell why though.
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
None, really. Remembering the passwords, maybe?
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
6. It's a pretty easy scenario, and that takes a bit of the fun out of it. Ironically, the most interesting part - the passwords - is also the part that made the scenario too easy for me. Nonetheless, it didn't feel cheap winning that easily, because I got to see what I would have had to fight if I just skipped past all of the dialogue.
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
A bit more dialogue between Arvith and Baran would have been nice. There's not a huge amount of pay-off on that, though it's not glaringly lacking.

I'd probably make the fight through the castle a bit more difficult, maybe throw in a couple more undead.
If presented with the opportunity, I would take great pleasure in becoming a world ruler.
supperman
Posts: 18
Joined: February 5th, 2020, 2:43 pm

Re: Scenario 3: Guarded Castle

Post by supperman »

Content Feedback wrote: March 10th, 2006, 11:52 pm (1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
Challenging 1.12.5

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
10 - Hardest in the campaign. I think you need either a well built army or a good deal of luck to finish it.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Obvious, save that only Arvith can free his brother.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
I think it's fine as is. Except Arvith makes a funny comment about supporting his troops on the front. It was funny because at that point most of his army was a turn behind him, for I had used him for scouting.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Scaling the walls. Orcs wait at the bottlenecks, which slows down dispatching them. Although this lets you seize the best terrain, keeping it at night may cost multiple units, especially if most of them are still lvl 1. By the time you are finally getting rid of orcs the undead arrive. Luckily I had hired extra footpads in anticipation of them. Vague memories from previous play on easy helped in finding Baran and defeating the undead. I still lost a loyal knight but gained another and Arvith leveled to Paladin.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
9. Despite all difficulty this is the funnest scenario in the campaign. I think the passwords contribute to it a lot.
The difficulty actually makes you think that this is the last scenario, if you don't remember how many you have played already. So you have a feel of finishing the trouble, which gives strength and hope.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Maybe just prompting whether you want to give the password would be better than forcing memorization. It will be harder for players that keep a pause before this scenario. I just remembered that there should have been a treasure somewhere but I missed it, probably because I remembered where Baran was. Maybe the castle should be mirrored randomly so you can't just walk to him directly.
User avatar
IceTyp
Posts: 21
Joined: August 23rd, 2020, 4:33 pm

Re: Scenario 3: Guarded Castle

Post by IceTyp »

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
Knight (Challenging), 1.15.5
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
5
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
clear
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
clear
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Hitting the leader. I attacked him with Knights and Spearmen but needed three turns to kill him. I lost one Knight because of this.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
6
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
I think this scenario has a good difficulty on Challenging. It has also enough variety because of different enemy units.
Attachments
AToTB-Guarded Castle replay 20201004-175000.gz
(26.1 KiB) Downloaded 302 times
Konrad2
Forum Moderator
Posts: 3330
Joined: November 24th, 2010, 6:30 pm

Re: Scenario 3: Guarded Castle

Post by Konrad2 »

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?

1.15.6, Knight (Challenging)

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

3, if you know the passwords.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

Neat.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

Baiting the orcs during daytime.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

5

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

-

Scenario stats:
Spoiler:
Attachments
AToTB-Guarded Castle replay 20201101-110243.gz
(23.44 KiB) Downloaded 282 times
User avatar
Lord-Knightmare
Discord Moderator
Posts: 2337
Joined: May 24th, 2010, 5:26 pm
Location: Somewhere in the depths of Irdya, gathering my army to eventually destroy the known world.
Contact:

Re: Scenario 3: Guarded Castle

Post by Lord-Knightmare »

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
1. Wesnoth 1.15.7 Challenging
2. 5
3. crystal
4. Funny since the guards just left without even asking who I was when I gave the passwords
5. Getting past the first vanguard at the castle gates
6. 8 (It's not every day you get to raid a castle)
7. Can the side 2 leader's type be varied on difficulty? Dark Sorcerer on Easy and Necromancer on Challenging?
AToTB-Guarded Castle replay 20201126-171800.gz
(23.74 KiB) Downloaded 265 times
Creator of "War of Legends"
Creator of the Isle of Mists survival scenario.
Maintainer of Forward They Cried
User:Knyghtmare | My Medium
Apparos_Vaklas
Posts: 37
Joined: April 24th, 2021, 11:52 am

Re: Scenario 3: Guarded Castle

Post by Apparos_Vaklas »

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?

Knight (Challenging), Version 1.14.16

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

4

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Pretty clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

Pretty solid.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

Nothing much. I gave both passwords and approached the enemy leader with caution, not giving him any chance to kill any of my units.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

7

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

I can't think of anything.
User avatar
Remellion
Posts: 51
Joined: December 25th, 2015, 3:18 pm

Re: Scenario 3: Guarded Castle

Post by Remellion »

Just updating the review for 1.15.x...
Remellion wrote: December 27th, 2015, 1:42 pm 1. Played on Grand Knight (Challenging), 1.15.14. Also numerous times before on 1.5, 1.6 and 1.8 and 1.12.

2. Difficulty depends on whether you choose to fight the extra sets of guards. If no, probably very easy 2 or 3 out of 10 perhaps. If yes like I did (both sets), 7/10 at least. The time limit is extremely tight, and the unit composition of the undead (read: number of ghouls) matters.

In fact, I restarted this scenario twice because of the time limit despite knowing what was coming. Both times were because I beat the initial guards and orcs, but my army was all at red HP between general retaliation damage and the ghouls' poison. Perhaps not deliberately fighting the extra guards gives a more reasonable difficulty, hm?

3. Objective: "Rescue Baran" is fairly vague. After defeating the dark sorcerer, moving Arvith to the cell door is OK with the 6 extra turns, even if he's somewhere remote.

4. Dialogue is still written well for the scenario, in terms of language. It's still not clear why the enemies would keep Baran alive for a while, or why necromancers would be afraid of orcs (or work with them, or go to the trouble of wreaking havoc in the countryside, or be in any position to offer a bargain to the elves in the previous scenario...) It seems like an attempt to spice up the otherwise formulaic "You. Enemy. Kill." setup, but there are some plot holes. I don't remember the scenario intro from Rotharik's journal being that well-written. It seems better now, or it might just be my memory playing tricks.

5. Challenges with the scenario? *snip* Hahaha who would be silly enough to fight both extra sets of high-levelled guards? That would be silly. I'll just leave these two bits that still apply.

- Lack of healing. No healing units (excepting the Paladin, if you have any) and 2 villages in the vicinity of the entryway is all you get. If there are more ghouls, it becomes very irritating to proceed down the hallways - and even without being poisoned your army would be wounded from fighting the other guards. There is simply no time to stop and heal - level-ups are the best source of sustainability here. This is less crippling if you don't fight the extra guards, and it in fact becomes a nice challenge.

*snip*

Giving the right passwords to avoid the initial guards removes all the difficulty. Story-wise, it would make much more sense to just remove the password prompting and proceed with the scenario sans guards. Gameplay-wise, the prompts pretty much amount to a difficulty selection: Would you like an easy time, or a very challenging time? And if you don't remember the passwords (e.g. play the campaign over a couple days), the default seems to be "very challenging."

6. Fun? Fun is not really to be had here for me. Without extra guards, a 2 or 3 because of the amount of ground to cover and lack of enemies. With extra guards, the same because of the tight turn limit. It's better now, in particular due to the map change - the lair is now actually "underground" (well, it's called indoors) and adding the illuminated tiles by the torches is aesthetically and game-play wise more fun.

7. Changes I would like would be to remove the password selection (maybe one group of guards could return after a few turns upon realising they had been tricked, to make it more interesting), and to basically rework the map - smaller castle, and a few more villages outside. The password selection I still have doubts on. Nice touchups on the map, making it more interesting than before.
Attachments
AToTB-Guarded Castle replay 20210622-155532.gz
1.15.14, Challenging, English
(26.14 KiB) Downloaded 138 times
mal_shubertal
Posts: 93
Joined: December 1st, 2018, 6:58 pm

Re: Scenario 3: Guarded Castle

Post by mal_shubertal »

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
1.16.2 Challenging
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
2 if you use all the passwords. 4-5 if you don't.
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Very
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
I like it. More build up about the drama between the brothers, actually a little pathos for the necromancer who is already having a bad day when you show up.
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Healing. Few villages and far between, so you have to make judgment calls on when to retreat your units.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
5. I really like the option of using the passwords or not. It gives the player more control over the difficulty level and increases replayability. So newer players can use all the passwords and have fun with less stress, while more experienced players can dramatically increase the challenge by intentionally giving the wrong passwords.
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
I like it as is
Attachments
AToTB-Guarded Castle replay 20220312-103840.gz
(29.15 KiB) Downloaded 59 times
HenryY2020
Posts: 21
Joined: February 4th, 2020, 7:24 am

Re: Scenario 3: Guarded Castle

Post by HenryY2020 »

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
1.16.9 Challenging
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
2 if you use all the passwords. Definitely harder otherwise but I didn't try that due to .
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Very clear
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
I like it. More build up about the drama between the brothers, actually a little pathos for the necromancer who is already having a bad day when you show up.
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Healing. Few villages and far between, so you have to make judgment calls on when to retreat your units.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
5, since I gave the passwords. Would rank it higher otherwise.
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
I like it as is
JL42
Posts: 66
Joined: December 9th, 2023, 11:19 am

Re: Scenario 3: Guarded Castle

Post by JL42 »

What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
v. 1.16.10
Grand Knight / Challenging
How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
The password checks are a cool dynamic. If you complete both of them then it's probably about a 2 difficulty. I intentionally failed the second password to get more XP, which bumped the difficulty up to around 3. Failing the first password would probably put it around 5–6. If the player is arriving without any level 2 units then it would be harder; but it seems doubtful that anyone could get through the previous scenario without obtaining such units.
How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Very clear.
How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Like the previous scenario I'm running into a bit of storyline confusion here. The enemy leader seems to indicate the orcs are "coming for him" and are not on his side, and yet they just stand there at the gate and they don't attack his units as they walk right past? Instead the orcs only come after us when we get too close? If you read closely the enemy does briefly mention that he has guard orcs, but the ones on the map are not actually on his team and don't attack with his team; and why does he have guard orcs if the orcs are his enemy? Didn't really make much sense. The basic plot with the brothers is ... fine I guess ... but the campaign in general just really needs some work on the writing. And maybe replace the guard orcs with guard ogres or something for more coherence.
What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
The biggest danger is getting too close to the gate early on and bringing all of the orcs down on you at an inopportune time. Once you understand their engagement dynamics that part becomes a breeze, which makes it actually feel a bit gimmicky. It's another one of those things where a bit of dialogue would help – "Men, those orcs won't attack as long as we stay out of range! [for whatever reason]." Currently you just have to grok onto the AI scripting or read the walkthrough to get that information, which feels distasteful to me. Once you do realize that they are stationary, you just hang back to defeat the undead troops, and then after that is done you move forward to deal with the orcs. Fighting through the castle could potentially be challenging, but by the time you get there all the enemies are already dead.
How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
4 – This is better than the previous two maps. The castle is an interesting concept but could have been better implemented.
What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
As mentioned above, better dialogue to clearly explain what is going on with the orcs and with the necromancers. The castle was a bit of letdown because it was so empty. Maybe the enemy leader should get some more gold to recruit once our units enter the castle proper, so that we would actually have something to fight in there (along with more villages just outside the castle and more time if needed to handle the challenge). It would also be more fun if there were additional "surprises" or points of interest in the castle – currently there's a bunch of decorations strewn all over, but most of them don't do anything. Maybe even just make the castle a bit larger. I found it frustrating that there is a locked area at the left (before you get to Baran) that seems impossible to enter, and has to be just left unexplored.

About the Overall Campaign:

New players are directed to this one right after the tutorial. But I don't think it works very well as an "Intro" campaign, at least not in its current form. The first couple of maps are awkward and frustrating, effective combat requires an extensive knowledge of game mechanics, and the storyline is decidedly blah. There's basically nothing in the way of explanatory dialogue or introduction to the units and the game setting, as can be found in Heir to the Throne. The characters and context don't have much depth to draw people in. If this was my first introduction I would not come away with a very good impression of Wesnoth as a whole. It makes sense to have a short-and-simple campaign as the first one, but this just isn't it.

The campaign could benefit from extensive text rewriting to provide better narrative and more explanation of the units for beginners. Give that task to whoever wrote The South Guard or Heir to the Throne, both of which are much better in that regard. I also think some adjustment to the first two maps to provide simpler, more defensible terrain and more straightforward challenges (different enemy units) would be useful. Should note that I'm playing it on the harder difficulty (does anyone actually play on easy?), so that could possibly affect the unit distribution, but it doesn't affect the terrain or writing.

In its current form I have to give the campaign just 1 out of 5 stars. I would nudge beginners toward starting with Heir to the Throne, or maybe The South Guard, rather than this one.
Post Reply