Scenario 2: The Chase

Feedback for the mainline campaign A Tale of Two Brothers.

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WWWWolf
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Post by WWWWolf » August 20th, 2007, 4:33 pm

(1) Easy, on some 1.1.x version (didn't finish) and 1.2.6.

(2) Uh... 3-4? Not very challenging.

(3) The objectives were clear once I figured them out, but I have to say that the first time I played this, I thought it was buggy when the scenario didn't end with the death of the first commander. =) Don't get me wrong, the fact that the scenario did continue after that was a brilliant idea - but it should be made clearer that the race is still on. How about revealing the rest of the map once the first commander is defeated and immediately giving the second task...

(4) The scenario needs a lot work. The dialogue is a little bit weak throughout the whole campaign and needs something to make it more engaging, in my opinion. Also, as pointed out above, the reason for the elves to act this way should be made much clearer. Elves are the (stereotypically) supposed to be the flute-wagging tree-huggers - why are they hostile here?

(5) A bit of a lack of clarity.

(6) I'd say 7. If the scenario's dialogue and clarity is improved, easily higher.

(7) Better dialogue (goes for the whole campaign), and clearer objectives.

Pseudointellectual
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Post by Pseudointellectual » August 23rd, 2007, 12:47 pm

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

(1) Easy. 1.2.6.
(2) I thought the elves were easier to deal with than the skeletons in the first scenario. 3.
(3) I was a little confused when I beat the elves and the game continued. So I just headed north hoping that was the right thing to do, and it was.
(4) Why are the elves fighting me again? I mean, I know the dark adept made a convincing argument, but I'd like a little more info on what that argument was. :)
(5) Once again, the skeletons beat me up. By this point I had a level 2 unit, though, and he kicked butt.
(6) I enjoyed this one. There were a lot of villages to grab, and the elves were fun to fight. I say 7.
(7) I think it's fine as it is.

Dwachs
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Re: Two Brothers: 2. The Chase

Post by Dwachs » December 12th, 2007, 9:52 am

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

(1) easy, 1.2.8
(2) 2 - it was much easier than the first one, the elvish riders were not such a tough enemy than the skeletons.
(3) I had to search for the enemies that were escaping to the north- that was not very clear, the dialogs try to transport some 'time pressure', but it turns out that there was enough time to find the mage wth his guards and kill him
(4) the elvish leaders comment when he died was misleading: he spoke about something like 'hurry up - you come too late', but there was enough time to spot the enemy and kill him
(5) killing the elvish fighter
(6) 7 (?)
(7) show the escaping enemy from the beginning, he can then also be hidden in the fog/ not explored terrain. Don't try to create the feeling of 'you are too late'

jistanidiot
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Re: Two Brothers: 2. The Chase

Post by jistanidiot » January 18th, 2008, 1:00 pm

ivanovic wrote:(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
1.2.8 Hard and Easy
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
Easy was too easy. Hard I only last a couple of rounds.
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
I don't see (even in the easy version) how it is possible to catch the undead without killing the elf leader.
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
It's clear enough the elf leader is just a merc for the undead, but it wasn't clear I'm not supposed to kill him until I started reading messages in this forum
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Hard - staying alive more than a few rounds. I don't think it is possible to play on the hard level.
Easy - there were no challenges :(
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
Easy: 4
Hard: 1 (if I could figure out how to win it would be a lot higher)
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
I assume this is the first campaign you're supposed to play after the tutorial. The first part with the black mage is easy enough to figure out. However, this 2nd part (the chase), maybe A. should give more obvious hints on a winning strategy.

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ivanovic
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Re: Two Brothers: 2. The Chase

Post by ivanovic » January 18th, 2008, 5:19 pm

jistanidiot wrote:
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
I don't see (even in the easy version) how it is possible to catch the undead without killing the elf leader.
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
It's clear enough the elf leader is just a merc for the undead, but it wasn't clear I'm not supposed to kill him until I started reading messages in this forum
Uhm, there is *no* need to have the elf stay alive, you are free to kill him if you manage to do so. But that is not *everything* needed to do in this scenario, you have to do more than just "kill that very boss leader".

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Anym
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Re: Two Brothers: 2. The Chase

Post by Anym » April 3rd, 2008, 1:20 am

(1) Horseman (Beginner), 1.4, English [US]
(2) 3: Maybe even a bit easier than the first one, but not much, mainly thanks to the absence of monsters with poison or magical attacks.
(3) Clear
(4) Clear, but still not at all interesting. In fact, I appreciated that there was less dialogue overall and most of it limited to after the action. The dialogue that was there was as bad as before, though. I was actually beginning to wonder if it was intended as parody.
(5) Spreading my troops too thin between finishing off the elves and encountering the Dark Adept, which admittedly was more of a mistake on my part than a challenge posed by the scenario itself.
(6) 4: More fun than the first, although I can't quite pinpoint it. Probably having less bad dialogue and a more interesting map layout.
(7) Like the first, this scenario's dialogue could use a complete rewrite IMHO. Maybe even one satirising some of the cliches already present in the storyline, after all it already features the good guys splitting up, bad guys spilling the beans, a "I'm sorry, your brother is at another castle" moment, a character shouting a Big Nooo in all seriousness, reinforcement arriving right after you've won the battle, etc. Or at least that's my impression so far, no offence intended. On a more technical note, I found the turn limit a bit excessive considering its supposed to be a chase. I finished in 50% of the time and I actually took the time to kill all the elves, capture villages off my path and heal all of my troops before advancing. Also, "East" is capitalised but all other occurences of directions are lowercase.
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Turuk
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Re: Two Brothers: 2. The Chase

Post by Turuk » December 15th, 2008, 11:14 pm

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
Challenging 1.4.6

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
7. The MP of the elvish scouts means that they can pick away at my troops with relative ease, so it completely reverses the aggressive posture taken in the last scenario. Hard, but enjoyable.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Crystal, and nice that they change as the scenario goes on.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Good, quite better written than the first scenario, different writer?

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Dealing with the elvish scouts, I could handle even the champion relatively easily, but getting a ZoC on those scouts proved bloody.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
8. Despite the potential difficulties posed by the extensive MP of the scouts, the long setup of the math makes it feel like a chase, and the urgency of getting through the elves is enhanced by the dialogue.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Scouts are good, but possibly have the enemy leader recruit more infantry units to hold the player up at the river.
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singalen
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Re: Two Brothers: 2. The Chase

Post by singalen » December 24th, 2008, 11:03 am

ivanovic wrote:(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
(1) Hard, 1.5.6 for Windows
(2) 4.
(3) Clear, though I didn't want to attack elves at first: it wasn't clear they work for undead from the beginning.
(4) Clear. See (3)
(5) It was hard to make 1st wave without losses, then AI recruited only on a 1-hex castle: it became easy to make Riders 1-by-1 with a single Knight's change.
(6) Good. Can't compare to others.
(7) Add a 2nd hex to elven castle.
Make the Adept not attack my Knights - that was TOO easy to make. See replay.
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RS14
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Re: Two Brothers: 2. The Chase

Post by RS14 » January 5th, 2009, 5:47 am

1) Hard, 1.4.
2) 9
3) Clear.
4) It seems weird that the elves choose to fight you. It was otherwise clear, though.
5) Lack of a safe village to heal in, or space in the encampment to move units away from the front lines. The initial assault was very tough to survive. Unlike others, I did not find the wose to be much trouble, as I had at least two knights by the time it arrived point.
6) 8. It was frustrating, but I am pleased that I completed it.The map is quite dull, though.
7) If Nil-Galion fights for the promise of undeath (if my memory of the dialog is correct), it would be cool to have him return in a weak, undead form behind the player a five to ten turns into "Guarded Castle". Give him a guard of two skeletons, and if he gets onto the players keep, he'll start recruiting walking corpses. Give the player a few more turns to fight him off; I don't mean this to be a significant threat.
A few people have complained about the shroud over the north end of the map. If technically possible, changing this to a fog of war would remove any confusion.

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Vainglorious
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Re: Two Brothers: 2. The Chase

Post by Vainglorious » January 6th, 2009, 1:54 pm

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
Easy difficulty, 1.4.7.
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
4
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
I found them very clear and easy to understand.
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
The dialogue and storyline were very clear. I also found the storyline more interesting and less generic than in Rooting Out a Mage. However, I still found the dialogue too short/abrupt and rather simplistic, though better than in Rooting Out a Mage. Example:

"Hah! You got me alright, but what does that help? No harm telling you now, I suppose. Your precious mage is safely locked away in our dungeons. I was set up to be a decoy."
"Nooo! Tricked again. Tell us where he is and we shall spare your miserable life."

As with Rooting Out a Mage, I feel that adding some detail and a grittier tone (the tone as-is seems rather campy) to the dialogue would enhance the scenario.
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
The Elvish Scouts seemed quite strong individually compared to my units. I had to approach them very carefully to prevent them from killing my units, so that was one challenge. The other challenge came later, when the Skeletons and Sorcerer were suddenly revealed. Although I knew Skeletons were resistant to all but impact, fire, and arcane, I had no way to anticipate that a few Footpads would have been useful, so these were a nasty surprise.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
9
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
It seems a bit of a low blow to include Footpads on Easy difficulty to help deal with Skeletons, yet by the time the Skeletons suddenly appear, it's very impractical to recruit Footpads to deal with them. I might (emphasis on might) include some foreshadowing of the need for Footpads if the implementation followed KISS. Still, it does drive home to a new player the importance of accounting for resistances.

I'd also enhance and extend the scenario's dialogue.
"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you. " — Nietzsche

Krellja
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Re: Two Brothers: 2. The Chase

Post by Krellja » May 24th, 2009, 9:51 pm

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
(1) Easy, 1.6.2
(2) 3
(3) clear
(4) At first I was somewhat surprised by the behavior of the Elvish Leader. In my mind Elves are wise and (more ore less) peacefull people. Later I understood, that he fulfilled a "contract" with the undead, to become one of their leaders. Why does an nearly immortal elf want to become an undead?
(5) Keep calm. Not advance to fast. Then I can kill the elves two-by-two.
(6) 6
(7) May Brena should be a shock trooper instead of an iron mauler, so he would nave the opportunity to get another level. I think t would be a lot of fun to let him figth the skeletons in the next scenario.

DrPepper8
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Re: Two Brothers: 2. The Chase

Post by DrPepper8 » August 31st, 2009, 11:21 am

1. 1.6.4, Challenging
2. 7
3. Fairly clear. The constant reminders to catch up with the kidnappers even though I was nowhere near the turn limit made me a bit worried that I was doing something wrong or had misunderstood what I was meant to be doing.
4. Quite interesting. It would have been good if the elven leader had actually shown up as an undead in the next scenario.
5. Dealing with the initial wave of enemies. In the end I camped out in my starting position for a few turns, dealing with the first wave of elves - once they were out the way and I just had to deal with 1 elven reinforcement per turn then it was no problem.
6. 7
7. The best tactic I found was to stay mainly stationary and take advantage of the fortified starting position until I'd wiped out the initial waves of attackers - this felt a bit against the spirit of the scenario, so maybe something to encourage the player to set off straight away after the kidnappers would be good. Replacing some of the elven scouts with elven fighters or archers waiting in ambush would have been a nice touch too.

Joram
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Re: Two Brothers: 2. The Chase

Post by Joram » October 11th, 2009, 9:45 pm

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
Hard, 1.7.6

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
3- A couple of times some bad luck would have made me lose, but I got through it all. Spam out 8 footpads folllowed by loyal horsemen and a couple of spearmen, and I had the scenario in the bag. Footpads ZoC him away from your valuable units, surround and snipe at him, and my knights finish him off. 8 Footpads even take out an Elvish Hero without much problem.

Another thing about the footpads is that it is easy to lure him onto bad terrain with them.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear enough. Not a problem.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Very good. I liked the inclusion of the elves reason for stopping you, as opposed to "They gave me good reasons to stop you".

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
I just had to make sure my Footpad net was good

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
9- Great scenario. Good fun, and a big ZoC exercise.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
It's good as is.
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Rivulus
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Re: Two Brothers: 2. The Chase

Post by Rivulus » October 12th, 2009, 12:19 am

(1) Hard, 1.7.5 (most recently, I've played it on easy on some other version in the past)

(2) 8 at the beginning, 5 near the end.

(3) Clear enough, but I'd played it before so I remembered basically what happened anyway.

(4) Didn't pay much attention to it (sorry, I know that isn't very helpful).

(5) I had to change my fighting pattern because I'm more used to fighting with elves than against them. I tried to move out too fast and lost Arne the first time. The second try I just waited in the fort until the first wave of the hero and scouts had thinned out. From there on it was pretty easy.

(7) A bigger challenge at the end would make it more fun, I think. After I figured out how to survive the first wave, the rest was pretty easy, so having a second wave of elves (maybe infantry instead of scouts) once you get up near the river might be nice. Also, killing the dark adept was insanely easy. I had another knight along with Arne at that point, so I just ran them and a horseman up towards the top once I was past the elf lord, and positioned myself to draw the skeletons and adept down. Basically, the skeletons went after my knight and horseman, and the adept went after Arne. Adept attacks Arne once, Arne takes damage from ranged attack, but survives since he was at full health. Arne attacks adept once, adept dies, scenario over. Making the adept a level 2 so you can't kill him with one blow would certainly make things a lot harder (although that might be too hard).

ftl
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Re: Two Brothers: 2. The Chase

Post by ftl » February 24th, 2010, 10:37 pm

ivanovic wrote:(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
1. Easy, 1.6.5
2. 4.
3. Not too clear. I mean, I did the right thing - I moved guys north and killed everything in the way - but at the end, I didn't realize that my goal was to kill the dark adept and the end-of-scenario caught me by surprise.
4. Pretty good. I liked the idea that it was intended to be different - a chase.
5. At the beginning, dealing with the Elves' mobility. A few times the riders ganged up on a unit that I thought was far out of harm's way. Also, on easy, I guess it wasn't much of a challenge, but I was being really conservative and trying not to lose any units.
6. 7.
7. Ooh, I do have possible suggestions for this one! It might be fun to play up the chase aspect more - a few more scripted events along the way (small ambushes?), maybe have the turn-limit start out low and then increase as you get past checkpoints, maybe have the target visible at the edge of the view before running away. Basically, anything that makes it feel and play less like a standard "kill all enemies" scenario.

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