Scenario 2: The Chase

Feedback for the mainline campaign A Tale of Two Brothers.

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nikita1996
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Re: Scenario 2: The Chase

Post by nikita1996 »

1) difficulty:Knight (challenging) v1.12.4
2) 2. I have completely enough gold and units to defeat the elves and the undead. The only thing that is a little bit difficult is, elvish horses in the wose have 60% defense and you are not very easy to hit them. Once I had a bad luck, and I even didn't killed an elvish horse with 6 units in some turn.
3) Very clear.
4) Dialogues are simple but interesting and useful. Good!
5) Nearly no challenge. The major challenge is, how to make more lv 2 units :)
6) 7. It's more interesting than the first scenario, because firstly, you have two tasks in one scenario (including killing the elves and the adept), also, to fight with elves while rushing north is something interesting and exciting.
7) Maybe we can have some ambush units in the forest like woses and elvish rangers.
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Remellion
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Re: Scenario 2: The Chase

Post by Remellion »

1. Played on Knight (Challenging), 1.12.5. Also numerous times before on 1.5, 1.6 and 1.8, so I know what's coming.

2. Difficulty is oddly enough OK. Again the challenge is to keep loyals alive, although being a short campaign with an army of loyals, it isn't crippling to lose a few. (Was a little too reckless and lucky with my knights, but it worked out...) I remember having great difficulties in earlier versions when facing the onslaught of elvish scouts; could be down to luck or better strategy on my part now. Probably around 6/10.

3. Objective is clear. Go north. I remember being surprised by the shroud at the north hiding the full length of the map when I first played this scenario ages ago, then scrambling to finish in time, but unless the player dallies there shouldn't really be a danger of running out of time.

4. Dialogue is simple and effective. The elves' motivation for the fight is a little out of character I think; simply removing or changing Nil-Galion's dying lines may be better. Or hinting in the introductory dialogue that he has a different motivation than he lets on.

5. Challenges. Mostly the initial onslaught of scouts. They have mobility, terrain and time of day advantages in the first few turns, along with a healthy elvish hero right up the front lines. Scouts have high mobility, meaning that they can easily reach in and pick off any wounded or weak units in your formation. Likewise they can very likely reach any available hex unless blocked or ZoC'ed, so leaving open hexes around your units is particularly dangerous.

With that in mind, the natural strategy is to let them come to you. Loyalists being pierce-heavy is good versus the mounted scouts, and spearmen being cheap and having melee and ranged retaliation is extremely useful. Staying in the 60% starting keep and letting the elves attack from 40% flat, keeping a tight formation helps survival. Leaving only 2 hexes open on your loyals also increases their chances of survival. When dawn finally breaks, the tides turn naturally to your favour. (I lost a spearmen, and should've lost a knight in the subsequent hasty rush northwards... careless and greedy play there.)

The other issue is realising that there is shroud on the north side of the map, and reaching in time to complete the objectives. Knowing this beforehand, I rushed north, and had enough time to farm the revenants for exp before finishing (recalling footpads for this purpose at the start.)

6. Funnosity is a 7 for me, since figuring out how to survive the start is interesting. Once the elves run out of fodder though, the rest of the scenario is just a steamroller north.

7. Improvements... Hm. For a start, a bigger keep for the elves, and more gold (perhaps to start recruiting on turn 4, such that the elves put some sterner resistance after the initial rush.) Likewise, the dark adept shouldn't rush out suicidally - maybe deathblades rather than revenants to increase their range, and definitely something to stop the adept coming out to die. Or perhaps setting the adept at 2 exp to leveling up, such that it might become a more interesting situation to finish him off.
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SigurdFireDragon
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Re: Scenario 2: The Chase

Post by SigurdFireDragon »

1. Played on Knight (Challenging) with 184 gold, 1.12.5. Once before on easy in 1.10

2. Difficulty - 4

3. Objective is clear.

4. Dialogue - 7. Once again it continues the tale well.

5. Challenge - 5. Defeating the elves is easy enough when you lure them into the open. Was worried about getting to the top in time after defeating the initial wave of Elvish Scouts.

6. Fun - 7

7. Improvements - None that I can think of.
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Caladbolg
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Re: Scenario 2: The Chase

Post by Caladbolg »

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
1.12.5, Challenging.

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
5.5. As with the last one, it's not difficult but it is tricky.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Good, but as Remellion mentioned above, elves' motivation is a bit strange. Aside from that, there's this line: "But there are things that need done and questions that need answered." A quick google search tells me that it's actually gramatically correct, but it threw me off when I read it. I'd add "to be" in there but that's just a personal preference I guess.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Initial waves of scouts on a forest-heavy map. They're difficult to hit when in woods and can quickly reach your units, picking off the wounded. It's really tricky to deal with them at first and the elvish hero near player's keep isn't making things easier either.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
5. A bit more interesting than the least one.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Maybe make the forest just a bit sparser. In the main part of the map where most of the fighting will occur (north of the paths just above the starting keep and south of the river) there are less than 10 hexes that have no forests adjacent. That means that the vast majority of hexes have forests from which enemies can safely attack adjacent. And considering the movement of scouts, they are the ones determining which hexes are accessible which means that you'll probably only be able to take a few of those "safe" hexes and you'll mostly be at a terrain disadvantage no matter what you do.

Strategy: Recall units. The only way to take away enemy's terrain advanatge is to wait for them to come to you. For the first few turns the battle unfolds near the starting position. Regardless of high defense of scouts in the woods, horsemen are used to attack as they deal huge damage to them. When daytime comes, the tide turns in player's favor and spearmen become useful. When possible, position units onto hexes that have no forests adjacent so as to leave the attackers defenseless. 11th turn, a loyal swordsman kills the elf leader. 13th, undead sighted. 14, a loyal horseman kills the adept. I went straight for the kill, without delaying to kill the revenants as they'd likely kill a few of my units if I did that (and so would the adept if he lived for a turn more).

Stats: 217 start gold, 14/24 turns, 89 end gold, 15/17 villages, 12 units, 17 income, 5 recruits (bowman, footpad, horseman, 2x spearman), 7 recalls, 4 advancements (2x horseman -> knight, spearman -> swordsman, footpad -> outlaw; swordsman and one of the knights being loyal), 2 losses (footpad and a loyal bowman), 18 kills, +1% dmg dealt, +7% dmg received
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Konrad2
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Re: Scenario 2: The Chase

Post by Konrad2 »

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
Hard and 1.14.0
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
3-4
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
First part: Absolutely clear.
Second part: 'Kill the Dark Adept before his reinforcements arrive' not as clear. He said his reinforcements arrive in one hour. Is that when my turns run out? Maybe in one turn? Maybe in two? I do not know for sure.
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Very clear and interesting as well. I'd be interested in a prequel.
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Defeating the elves and advancing fast enough (without losing/endangering any units).
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
6-7
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Make the AI for the undead better/Use a better AI. As it is, the Dark Adept comes charging at me, splitting from his protectors. He basically tries to suicide as fast as possible...

Stats: 189 start gold, loyal horseman automatically recalled, 20/24 turns, 203 end gold, 15/17 villages, 10 units, 17 income, 3 recruits (3x bowman), 5 recalls (4 loyal spearman, 1 loyal bowman), 2 advancements (horseman -> knight, spearman -> pikeman), 0 losses, 19 kills, +12% dmg inflicted, -13% received, no reloads (I'm serious. Weird dmg stats...)
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LordWolfDan
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Re: Scenario 2: The Chase

Post by LordWolfDan »

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?

- Easy, 1.14.5

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

- 3

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

- Pretty miuch clear, dispatch the arrogant elf rider and find the dark adept

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

- I'd say okay. I heard the complaints about elf rider being hostile to Arvith for no reason. But I digress, as Grey Woods are notorious for being haunted and being the domain of romaing souls, Therefore, the elves could have fallen under the influence of necromancy, explaining their hostile nature.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

- None really, expect for trying to keep riders safe from elves, as they're the most vulnerable in forests.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

- 6

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

- I'd go with adding fog or shroud of war on the entire map, not only the upper third. Therefore, it'd have some tension while roaming on this scenario.
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Tom_Of_Wesnoth
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Re: Scenario 2: The Chase

Post by Tom_Of_Wesnoth »

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
1.14.7 on Knight/Challenging.
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
6. The initial battle against the elves was fairly tricky, but once the main battle was won it was a simple matter of picking off the one unit a turn that the elf leader sends at you. Killing the dark adept at the end was far too easy, his revenants didn't protect him and I was able to cavalry charge him down.
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Pretty clear.
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
I was a bit disappointed with the writing in this one, actually. The first scenario was well-written and had interesting characters, but this one was a bit flat. The elf initially seemed to have been tricked into helping the undead, but was then revealed to be in league with them - but there was no reaction to this revelation from any of my units, which felt off.

However, making the player have to pay attention to the passwords is a nice touch. Are they randomised each time?
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Surviving the initial waves of elves without losing any important units can be a bit difficult, as the scenario starts at dusk and your army is mostly lawful.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
5. The initial fight is challenging enough to keep the player interested, but after that, the push forward is far too easy, with one unit every turn or every other turn dribbling towards you. The final battle with the dark adept is laughably easy as his revenants will leave him exposed.
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Having a couple of woses that advance towards the player would be nice, as it would give a little bit of challenge to the moving forward after the first fight. If the undead AI can be made to protect the dark adept more, that would also be good.
If presented with the opportunity, I would take great pleasure in becoming a world ruler.
supperman
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Re: Scenario 2: The Chase

Post by supperman »

Content Feedback wrote: March 10th, 2006, 11:52 pm (1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
Challenging 1.12.5

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
9 - Chances tilt toward a Pyrrhic victory, though I finished 10 turns early so slower advances might be less risky, but I haven't tried.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
I vaguely remembered having to fight elves from the first playthrough, but had forgotten the adept.
I was surprised when slaying the leader didn't end the scenario, but advanced to north and found the adept.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
An elf wanting to lead undead army raises eyebrows, but it isn't the first time in Wesnoth.
He's scarcely competent playing elves. Maybe he imagines that undead would be easier to lead.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
I got lucky on the first turn and slew both elves I could reach without a scratch.
Of all enemies the wose was most dangerous and difficult to kill. I felled it with my two knights and Arvith was saved by luck.
Encouraged by luck I advanced quickly and my knights were saved by luck again.
I believe this would have been much more difficult if I hadn't been so lucky.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
5 due to luck.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Move the elvish base further north so they aren't finished so quickly.
Let them recruit more than one unit per turn and reduce their standing army to compensate.
More variety in recruiting.
I'd suggest using fog instead of shroud, making the map wider and randomising the adept's position on the northern edge for replay value.
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IceTyp
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Re: Scenario 2: The Chase

Post by IceTyp »

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
Knight (Challenging), 1.15.5
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
9, For me, this was by far the most difficult scenario of the whole campaign.
I needed five tries to beat this scenario. But only the first few turns where problematic.
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
clear
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
clear
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
The major challenges were the many enemy units in the first few turns in combination with night.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
5
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
I would increase the gold of the enemy leader and decrease the number of enemy units at the beginning. This should make the first few turns less brutal and the later turns more difficult. There could also be less scouts but more fighters at the beginning to achieve this.
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Konrad2
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Re: Scenario 2: The Chase

Post by Konrad2 »

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?

1.15.6, Knight (Challenging)

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

6, you have to deal with sooo many scouts. And elves in the forest are always annoying to deal with.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

I'm sceptical about the Elvish Rider and making a deal with undead. And all elves being okay with, plus Woses.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

Surviving the initial rush and still making it before the turns run out.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

4

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

-

Scenario stats:
Spoiler:
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Lord-Knightmare
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Re: Scenario 2: The Chase

Post by Lord-Knightmare »

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
1. Wesnoth 1.15.7 Challenging
2. 8
3. Crystal
4. Nice to see the changed the Elves' views on necromancy and introduced the concept of Grey mages.
5. The Side 2 AI menacingly spamming scouts at me.
6. 8 (used to be 3 but after using PRNG and save random seed, I started to enjoy the scenario since RNG didn't frustrate me this time)
7. Fix the Lua Error I reported.
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mattsc
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Re: Scenario 2: The Chase

Post by mattsc »

Lord-Knightmare wrote: November 26th, 2020, 11:36 am 7. Fix the Lua Error I reported.
This is now fixed in bf3cdeb1. Thanks for reporting.
Apparos_Vaklas
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Re: Scenario 2: The Chase

Post by Apparos_Vaklas »

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?

Knight (Challenging), Version 1.14.16

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

5

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Pretty clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

Pretty good. I liked the evil elves part.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

I got a bit cocky on my first try so I restarted the scenario. I stayed in the fort for the first two waves (Scout+Level 2 Fighter, 3 Scouts) and they died easily outside of the forests. On the third wave (Wose+Level 2 Elvish Rider) there was a chance where, if I was really unlucky, my leader would have died but all worked out. No problems after that, by the time I got to the undead I had 2 Level 2 knights and 2 Swordmen so during daylight the revenants weren't that hard to kill. Lost a few cannon fodder but all loyal units survived.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

8
Fun to fight mostly elvish cavalry with pierce-attacking units.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

I can't think of anything.
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Atreides
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Re: Scenario 2: The Chase

Post by Atreides »

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?

Hard, 1.14.16

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

infinite (10)

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

No clue, what to do. I guess it was to reach the top edge of the map.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

Skipped it as I've played it before on 1.12 in easy.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

Winning

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

1

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

Well seeing as Arvith went out to attack the level 2 elf with his sword and promptly got mobbed and surrounded by elves swarming in on turn 2 and killing him I don't see any point to it. I guess I should point out I stink at campaigns and am playing the hard level out of curiosity. My curiosity is now satisfied. I can see the hard level is not for me. The way I like to play is to take the long attritional approach. I slowly grab a majority of villages while building up an invincible army over the course of 100's of turns. This does not work in campaigns. :-b I suppose I could learn how to balance caution with speed but I would not enjoy that sort of game. I do enjoy the story aspect of the campaigns very much but I hate the way one has to rush. I'm a turtle, not a rabbit. ;-)
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egallager
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Re: Scenario 2: The Chase

Post by egallager »

The "Normal" difficulty I added to AToTBWaTD would probably work better for you.
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