Scenario 12: Northern Winter

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Scenario 12: Northern Winter

Post by Content Feedback » December 7th, 2005, 4:07 pm

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Last edited by scott on March 26th, 2006, 7:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Becephalus
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Post by Becephalus » December 9th, 2005, 2:58 am

medium 1.02

4

clear

moderately

Trying to finsih quickly to pile up more gold (still recovering from valley). Also the terrain was rather challenging and required some forethought. I also am torn by whether or not to call on my expensive units.

5 (As in average for a BfW scenario (which is still pretty damn fun))

Not sure...

400

9 lvl 3, 8 lvl 2, not counting Kalenz/Delfador/Konrad and Haldiel who I started with
There are three roads to ruin: by gambling, which is the quickest; through women, which is the most pleasurable; and through taking the advice of experts, which is the most certain. -de Gaulle

Becephalus
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Post by Becephalus » December 10th, 2005, 12:13 am

This is a separate complaint from a geographically minded person. And that is that I find the rather haphazrd spread of snow very annoying. After all the caampaign could use a few full snow maps. It would add the the campaign and be a unique tactical challenge. If the terrain simply must be split, perhaps make it split north and south so the snow is all in the north. I find the current map highly unpleasing mentally and asthetically.

Same goes for Dwarven Doors...what are those two patches of snow doing?

And why is a mountain pass above plains covered in snow not also covered in snow?

EDIT:

In fact I have made a lot of mods for other games (particularly map mods) so depending what the mapmaking tools are I might be willing to redo these two maps (obviously an offer to take lightly coming from a complete stranger). But I could always just submit them and see what people think. Not proposing and scenario changes, just new maps. Anyway hope you are having a good day.
There are three roads to ruin: by gambling, which is the quickest; through women, which is the most pleasurable; and through taking the advice of experts, which is the most certain. -de Gaulle

Dacyn
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Post by Dacyn » December 10th, 2005, 7:43 pm

1=Easy
2=4
3=very
4=very, but both orcs are named Dwaba-Kukai...
5=not recruiting enough units
6=4
7=The map could be made smaller IMO.
8=887
9=10

Shakiko
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Post by Shakiko » March 15th, 2006, 1:26 am

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?

easy, bfw 0.8x - medium, bfw 1.0 rc - Hard bfw 1.11
I can't rember much of the first playthrough (on easy) anymore, thus I'm gonna give feedback regarding medium and hard only.


(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

7 - challenging, but doable


(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

very clear


(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

Taing a break to build up more food resources (money) was exactly what I needed after playing "the ford of abez", so it was great.


(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

Time... Even with fighting in bad conditions sometimes (night) I just finished the scenario 4-5 turns before time ran out on medium (1 turn befre timeout on hard)

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

7 - definitely great if you get used to use alot of scout units for this huge map -
hard to kill the bosses (which are recruiting melee units >_<) with scouts though, so constantly walking for 25 turns just to reach the northeastern Leader is not much fun.
For me this map could be one of the best of the campaign if it weren't for the movement/strong melee unit problems.


(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

Dunno if its possible, but could you change the layout abit ?
In a way that you still need to use scouts alot (which is the great part on this map) but don't have to walk forever with you normal troops because you cant kill the enemy leader with scouts only =/

like...uhm..
a) let the leader recruit more scouts (instead of trolls and warriors) even at the end so you stand a chance with your scouts ?
or b) make more snow/forest, but insert a few roads here and there so you can walk at those narrow paths with your "normal" army ?

But don't get me wrong - it's already good as it is now, just looking for a way to make it perfect =)


(8 ) How much gold did you have at the start of the scenario?

*reloads map*
167

(9) About how many higher level units did you have in your recall list? Don't list them out.

19 (mostly mermen ^^;)
But only recalled 2 Elvish Rider and 2 elv. Druids for this scenario.

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Post by toms » March 15th, 2006, 11:45 am

I don't know the major things, but I have an answer to question 7.

Random snow falling would be nice.
(I think on random map overlay variations)
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Post by Tux2B » April 2nd, 2006, 6:01 pm

1. Medium and easy. 0.8.11, 0.9.7 and 1.1.2
2. The first time it was very easy. But now you can't recruit gryphons anymore it has gotten a little more difficult to keep all your villages, though it can be done.
3. very clear, indeed
4. The storyline of the scenario looks, indeed, unfinished. It is a big map, with isolated villages... A few WML events would be great on this map.
5. Keeping all my villages

I think that this scenario could be improved. As I wrote above, adding some WML events would be nice.
Also, I think that it would be nice to have some forests without snow at the beginning. They would get more snowy at the same speed as the other tiles (most of all around your keep : you loose some time grabbing the few nearby villages).
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mega
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Post by mega » May 24th, 2006, 7:26 am

(1) medium, 1.1.2
(2) 6
(3) very
(4) ok
(5) allocating resources to defending the middle and attacking
(6) 6
(7) Make the AI better at attacking at the weakest front
(8) 950
(9) ~20

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Post by joshudson » July 11th, 2006, 5:12 am

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?

1.1.7, Normal

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
3 - easy.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
I didn't read them.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Nice touch about the gryphons.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
None really. I recalled two sylphs and a shyde to control the mountainous region in the center. They, along with Kalenz and and a scout sent east after the villages ended up crippling green (he never had more than half a dozen cities).

I'm not at all sure how to do this scenario without them though. Elves just aren't mobile enough in mountains to fight that battle.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
8. Too bad about wasting most of the experience.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
None really. Maybe warn the player that they might want to select shamans for development. This scenario really calls for flying.

Losses: one fighter.
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zol
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Re: Scenario Review: Northern Winter

Post by zol » August 2nd, 2006, 8:05 pm

Tux2B wrote:you can't recruit gryphons anymore
Aha! Mystery solved.
scott wrote:(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
medium, 1.1.7
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
Following my first attempt that I simply got all wrong, 7 down to 5.
I.e. it felt difficult initially (see below), but never actually became the crisis that I anticipated.
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Unambiguous (although I did have a false theory based on the leader's names the first time I played it).
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
It was good. It gave the characters more depth than just signposts/ RPG greeters, and was relevent to the storyline.
It is only slightly odd (given the nature of the game) that the need for a rest from war explains why they must go to war. The justification made sense and felt right.
The end story, covering their stay and transitioning to the next scenario was nicely done.
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Lack of immediate focus.
Even without foreknowledge of later events it is clear that there is a long march ahead and non-trivial village grabbing everywhere else.
I thought quite hard about what to recruit and when, and when to leave the keep.

The war party had an easy time, marching, then occupying the forest, picking off some threats, and assembling for the main event.
The scouts were trying to pay for this, and ensure that the enemy couldn't afford to flatten them by the time they arrived.

Every turn had scouts not so much holding villages as shuffling around and trying not to die when challenged. This went surprisingly well, however, but it was always borderline and shapeless*, and I spent a long time on it trying to find some way to make it more progressive and organised.
*Clarification: I did maintain a loose boundary, but there was never a real obstacle to the AI going straight through for easy pickings.

Around turn 20 the scout resistance essentially and suddenly crumbled, just as the first offensive took shape, and the first enemy ran out of time. From here on, smooth (if slow) sailing.

Ended on turn 33 (Well, I was trying to level a mage, okay? Stop laughing at me!)
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
It was 5 at first becoming 8. Lack of focus (compounded by lack of sleep), until I knew how to proceed and had the satisfaction of executing some successful moves.
I think that I will enjoy it more next time, as I get comfortable with the village contest aspect.
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
I would have made? Let's not consider it.
I see nothing in need of change.
I love the map. Only the water division between Orc leaders looks a bit weird and patchwork. Plenty of irregular, even quaint, variations to enjoy, as well as bold features and terrain influences.
I kind of wish a greater variety of activities could be played in those hard to reach places, but I'm certainly not suggesting that within the scenario.

It manages to be challenging in ways that haven't really been important before in the campaign, a different way of judging the situation.
I think this is the first scenario in which the connection between village grabbing and endgame really stands out and drives the point home.

When the scenario auto-recalled a knight I thought, 'um, a knight? here?' and checked, 'yup, non-loyal' (upkeep=2). Then I thought, 'whew, not a merman' (kidding). Came in handy occasionally though, and I did level him to paladin (mobility being an issue at the time).
I guess, it wasn't being totally random, although there was an Elvish Rider available (and an Elvish Sharpshooter, who I didn't recall until the second keep. Hey! You're knowing the future. Stop That!)
possibly obsolete wrote:(8 ) How much gold did you have at the start of the scenario?
292. Next scenario starts with 776. I was very surprised, considering my upkeep. I think it's time that I read the fine print about that.
(9) About how many higher level units did you have in your recall list?
20. Why do they always miss when they're so close :cry:
But, I got 4 advancements this scenario :)
finite, infinite, definite

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Post by fyo » October 12th, 2006, 2:26 pm

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
medium (1.1.11 and 1.0)
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
4
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Crystal.
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
OK, Konrad's comments have a way of coming off as extremely childish at times, though.
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Not sending mounted humans around the south/east flank.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
7
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
I like it as it is. It's perhaps a bit easy (at least with a decent amount of gold), but then not all scenarios should be hard. There are some really tough ones and it's nice to have a "breather" scenario here and there. Does the map actually change as snow keeps falling? That would be logical, but I haven't noticed it. I guess I could reload and compare...

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Post by Mist » March 12th, 2007, 11:13 pm

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
medium 1.3.1

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
2

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Crystal.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
One of the best so far, one of the very few that leave the impression that there indeed is an army an that it fought quite impresive and long campaign. Kalenz seems a little to toughtless in this regard for a lord

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Leaving something to kill for the infantry.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
5. Map is a bit to large, and the end simply drags on due to hard terrain.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Make the map smaller. Otherwise nice breather.

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Post by Spigot » March 19th, 2007, 3:54 am

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
Hard 1.2.3

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
1

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
very clear

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
storyline is fine

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Problem is that its not very challenging

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
2

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Make the enemies higher level. The enemies were mostly lvl 1 and so I mowed through them with my lvl 2's and 3's. After so many hard scenarios, this one was so easy that I thought it was bugged. Is it? You shouldnt be finishing hard mode campaigns with 800 some gold and 13 turns to spare.

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Post by cph » May 14th, 2007, 7:27 pm

1) Medium; 1.2.4
2) 2
3) Clear
4) Okay
5) Keeping the packs of wolf riders contained; perhaps I should have hired more scouts. If they broke through to my rear, they would run away stealing all my villages & be a pain to track down.
6) 5 - slow but interesting, a welcome gentle pace compared to the levels either side.
7) Maybe have some snow melt too - during the day?
8 ) starting gold ~350

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Buddy Jimm
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Re: Scenario Review: Northern Winter

Post by Buddy Jimm » March 30th, 2008, 6:39 pm

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?

Medium, 1.3.17

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

5. The loss of gryphons hurts here. Elvish Scouts simply cannot quite keep up with Wolf Riders, but keeping the southeast area is important. Advanced units can still win if the enemy manages to get past you (at which point many level 1's I brought along usually are anyway, since the Elvish Fighters and Archers easily trample most of what's in their forested path), but there will be a lot of units to go through, and you're racing the clock.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Clear

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

Good.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

Since Wolf Riders can outrun you in the mountain ranges (and enjoy the same 60% defense you do), you must dance very carefully to bring them down. It's very difficult to deal enough damage to kill them before first watch arrives and you're forced to a brief withdrawal.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

6. Fighting with the riders is fun, but for the rest of the party, it's a very slow march that would be inevitable victory without the turn limit to worry about. Elvish troops can easily overcome the castles by sticking to forest, but the snow makes it unbearably slow.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

Shrink the map in one or both dimenions, maybe? Slow fighting can be a central map theme, but to stretch it out so long is painful. It's actually a really good map otherwise, so I don't feel inclined to suggest specific changes.
After death, the doctor.

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