Scenario 16: Hasty Alliance

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Scenario 16: Hasty Alliance

Post by Content Feedback » December 7th, 2005, 4:07 pm

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Last edited by scott on June 28th, 2006, 6:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Elvish_Star
Posts: 18
Joined: June 27th, 2006, 10:05 am

Re: Scenario Review: Httt - Hasty Alliance

Post by Elvish_Star » July 21st, 2006, 4:34 pm

scott wrote:(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
1- easy, v1.0.2
2- 1/10
3- very clear
4- OK, not extraordinary
5- trying to leech as much XP as possible while the ogres do the job
6- 8, very funny between the serious battles. Fast paced, simple and fun
7- change nothing

zol
Posts: 161
Joined: July 12th, 2006, 4:31 am

Post by zol » August 4th, 2006, 11:45 am

This was refreshing and fun. It was good to get straight into tactics instead of speculating about what might work long term.

medium, 1.1.7
Difficulty: seems like 8, but works out 4. (I don't know how to give a numerical rating!)
I really had no idea how to break tight groups of level 2 and 3 trolls, especially on that terrain. Without Li'sar's heavies breaking them down a bit, I don't know what I would have done.
It took me three attempts to reach the leader with enough options up my sleeve to make the kill. My main problem seemed to be misjudging how many units it would take.
The first time I planned for defending Li'sar, not realising what she had (and that she would stay on castle).
The second time, I forged ahead with few units only to for Li'sar to stop recruiting.
The third time, I prepared to go the last steps alone.

As with The Lost General, I think the allied help(/hindrance) was just right.
finite, infinite, definite

fyo
Posts: 29
Joined: September 7th, 2006, 9:56 am

Post by fyo » October 16th, 2006, 1:04 am

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
medium 1.1.11 and 1.0

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
Not getting a critical unit killed in the first round: 8
Completing after surviving first roung: 2

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Fine.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
OK, but not great.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Surviving the first round. I had to restart 5 times or so before getting my critical units to survive - and I only did because the AI decided to split its attacks, even though it easily could have killed e.g. Delfador had it just focused on him.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
3. That start was not fun. The only reason it gets a 3 and not a 1 is that at least it was quick to start over from turn 1 ;-)

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
I don't know if the start is identical each time, but I had 3 L2 trolls and 2 L2 goblin knights that would attack me. Each capable of dealing 36 points of damage. All 3 critical chars had 60-some hit points. If I stay inside the castle, they only have a 40% chance of hitting, but the castle design allows all but 1 unit to be attacked by 3 opponents.

Let's do the math on that:

Attacked by 3 trolls at 40% chance to hit:

108 points: .4%
90 points: 3.7%
72 points: 13.8%
54 points: 27.6%
36 points: 31.1%
18 points: 18.7%
0 points: 4.7%

So that's an 18% chance you have to start over right then and there. And this is a CLEAN KILL in the first round. If you get a critical unit down to around 10 points, there's little chance he'll survive the next round, so effectively that makes it a 45% chance that you'll have to start over even without counting the two goblin knights.

For the record, they will deal the following in damage:

72 points: .07%
63 points: .79%
54 points: 4.13%
45 points: 12.4%
36 points: 23.2%
27 points: 27.9%
18 points: 20.9%
9 points: 8.96%
0 points: 1.68%

Not a big chance two goblin knights will kill a critical unit outright, but combined with the damage dealt by the trolls and the chance that you will HAVE to start over is clearly solidly above 50%.

Recruiting two garbage units is not an option, since that will just delay everything a turn (there's a VERY good chance that one of your main chars will still take at least a couple of hits, so the total damage done by your units and the ability to counterattack with ranged weapons on the next turn roughly makes it a wash).

Sacrificing higher-level recalled units will clearly increase the likelyhood of success, but that shouldn't be a requirement IMHO.

Personally, I don't like situations where something completely random has a huge impact on the odds of success. That's the case with locating Moremirmu in Isle of the Damned and that's the case here. It takes A LOT away from the fun. Please note that I don't have a problem with each hit being random or anything like that. As long as tactics still dominate, that's fine. (And that appears to be the case in all the other scenarios).

nightcrawler
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Post by nightcrawler » October 16th, 2006, 6:07 am

fyo wrote:(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Surviving the first round. I had to restart 5 times or so before getting my critical units to survive - and I only did because the AI decided to split its attacks, even though it easily could have killed e.g. Delfador had it just focused on him.
I know this isn't the place to discuss other people's posts, but until my critiques are ready, I wanted to pipe up on this one. It's funny, really, because I had the opposite experience. Recruit 4 guardsman, fade deflador and kalenz back to the right, and you're all set. Lisar sends a royal guard to get the goblin knight at the bottom on turn 2 (sometimes 2 guards). You can attack the trolls with delf and kalenz and cover yourself afterwards. Recruit another castle of anything on turn 2 and you should be able to break them. Your problem at that point is keeping lisar from getting killed. I like this scenario. I guess I would change the initial placement of the enemies so you can get some variety with the strategy for breaking the initial attack.
"Then I'd prefer you refer to it as 'The Midlands'"

If I'm supposed to fight creeping biggerism, then why is it a game feature?

cph
Posts: 129
Joined: May 12th, 2007, 4:29 pm
Location: London, UK

Post by cph » May 15th, 2007, 10:49 pm

1) Medium; 1.2.4
2) 4
3) Clear
4) Good
5) Recruiting on turns 2 and 3 is hindered because you are fighting enemies right beside your castle, and you can't do that and use the tiles to recruit at the same time. And any injured units have hardly any space to hide.

The cluster of L3 trolls attacking Lisar's troops are tricky but manageable.
6) 5
7) Maybe a little more resistance after the initial fight is over.
8 ) starting gold ~ 700

SumnerH
Posts: 15
Joined: January 9th, 2008, 6:01 am

Re: Scenario Review: Httt - Hasty Alliance

Post by SumnerH » April 7th, 2008, 7:37 pm

I'm filling these out having done Elves Beseiged-A Choice Must Be Made on "medium" difficulty, and I'm following the advice to rank 10=hardest scenario in the campaign (Seige of Elsenfar), 1 = easiest (Elves Besieged)

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
Medium, Wesnoth version 1.4
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10) [1]
7, but all the difficulty is on turn 1; after that it's pretty easy. And once you figure out how to do that, it's not so tricky.
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Quite
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
I like the friends out of necessity aspect.
(5) What were your major challenges in completing the scenario?
Keeping Kalenz/Delfador alive through turn one.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
8; at least if you fail stupidly, it's only 1 turn in.
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
None.

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Buddy Jimm
Posts: 48
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Re: Scenario Review: Httt - Hasty Alliance

Post by Buddy Jimm » April 21st, 2008, 5:53 pm

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?

Medium, 1.3.17

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

2. Really, at this point you have advanced dwarves and now guardsmen. This is an improvement, but it's difficult to protect Li'Sar; Her units in general don't do so well, and on occasion she will recruit Red Mages -- not generally a bad thing, but unwise when they come to life on a keep that's already adjacent to two trolls. Li'Sar herself, being basically armorless, will die to any lucky attacks.

I say 2 because the strategy is straightforward. There's only so much you can do here to get things in your favor, so your ability to survive the beginning depends largely on Li'Sars luck and troop placement. I usually just recruit a nice dwarf variety for a couple turns and patiently roll dice.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Clear

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

Good

(5) What were your major challenges in completing the scenario?

None. Once you've overcome the initial assault, taking out the troll leader is a cakewalk. Any leftover turns can be spent throwing guardsmen spears at him for XP.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

6. I actually really like this one, for some reason. The dependence on luck is blatant, but short.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

Spread out the assault a little, maybe. Move the castles around a bit and back off some of the attacking enemies, even behind the shroud. Maybe then there'd be room for more tactical decision-making.
After death, the doctor.

zyx
Posts: 0
Joined: May 2nd, 2008, 9:29 pm

Re: Scenario Review: Httt - Hasty Alliance

Post by zyx » May 2nd, 2008, 10:50 pm

(1) Medium - 1.4.1
(2) 1
(3) Clear
(4) Clear and interesting
(5) No defeated units.
(6) 5
(7)

scott
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Location: Alexandria, VA

Re: Scenario Review: Httt - Hasty Alliance

Post by scott » May 9th, 2008, 12:02 pm

I would get rid of the lava. In retrospect, it might also look better to have more vertical paths to create a narrower-looking, linear map rather than a roundish map with fat roundish chambers. It should still play the same.
Hope springs eternal.
Wesnoth acronym guide.

Trucidation
Posts: 10
Joined: December 31st, 2008, 7:22 am

Re: Scenario Review: Httt - Hasty Alliance

Post by Trucidation » January 3rd, 2009, 6:14 am

scott wrote:(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
Medium, 1.4.6
scott wrote:(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
5, just about right. The perilous starting position can go either way. I had some dwarves soak up punishment while I sent the heroes over to Li'sar. She didn't need any help though, since she kept cranking out ogres like they were going out of style.
scott wrote:(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Pretty clear. Survive or die.
scott wrote:(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Li'sar seemed to agree to cease hostilities a little too easily. Also, she's supposed to be the Queen's best general, if I recall the dialog from a previous scenario correctly. Then again, this IS a surprise ambush so maybe I'm just reading too much into the situation.
scott wrote:(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
No problems actually. Li'sar obligingly stayed on her keep square and kept up a steady stream of reinforcements coming, heck she was giving me more protection than my own units. I did finish off the wounded though, so it was a win-win situation. Wish more allied battles went this smoothly.
scott wrote:(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
8, I liked it, although I wish there was more banter.
scott wrote:(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
The enemy seemed to run out of steam pretty quickly. After breaking the initial assault all you have to do is chase down the stragglers and the leader was left throwing bats at you. Make the trek to him longer and give him more resources. Some of my dwarves didn't even manage to get a hit in D:

silent
Posts: 244
Joined: February 20th, 2009, 5:53 am

Re: Scenario Review: Httt - Hasty Alliance

Post by silent » February 20th, 2009, 8:59 am

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
Medium 1.4.7
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
4. Good opportunity to level guardsmen if you also recall a healer
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Clear. Not so smart to follow me was it Li'sar?
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
None. Survive the slaughter and return it double
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
5. The first wave of death makes things interesting
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
None.

GrouchyDan
Posts: 7
Joined: April 1st, 2009, 6:35 pm

Re: Scenario Review: Httt - Hasty Alliance

Post by GrouchyDan » April 2nd, 2009, 12:45 am

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?

Many versions since about 1.2 (most recently 1.6); easy and medium

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

This scenario isn't really difficult until (as I've witnessed) Li'sar bounces out of her castle to attack a Troll! When that happens, I believe nothing I could have done would have prevented such a suicide strike. But, perhaps, I could have somehow made it less likely. Therefore, I rate the difficulty of this scenario at 10, because Konrad must do everything possible to preclude Li'sar from having the opportunity of brashly running out of her castle, even though nothing he can do really can preclude that.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

Very clear and very interesting. I really have a soft spot for such situations, wherein sworn enemies recognize kindred souls in each other. I appreciate the way that Li'sar's style of speech is distinctively different from that of the other main characters.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

Worrying about Li'sar brashly leaving the relative safety of her castle. If I could be assured that she'd stay on her keep then this scenario wouln't be very challenging at all: recruit Dwarvish Guardsmen the first two turns; recruit Elrian, a White Mage, a Dwarvish Steelclad, and another Guardsmen the third turn; recruit mages and Dwarvish fighters close to advancement the fourth turn. But, because of Li'sar's impetuosity, I'm forced on the second and third turns to rush a couple of guardsmen to shield Li'sar, although even then she might confound the wisdom of the world and force my defeat.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

It's a whole lot of fun (that is, it's challenging but very beatable using sensible strategy) when Li'sar keeps herself safe. Nevertheless, I despise this scenario and believe it's the only blemish on the whole campaign. I remember two iterations of playing it when, despite perfect play on my part (grin of deprecation), I lost the scenario and thus the campaign due to the girl's foolishness. (In general, I have an aversion to all the Wesnoth scenarios where you lose if a suicidal ally dies.) While reloading or restarting allows completion of the campaign, I sort of have the opinion that any campaign wherein I reload or restart even once is lost. Fun = 0.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

Give Konrad control of Li'sar and her forces.

mcv
Posts: 51
Joined: March 25th, 2009, 12:47 pm

Re: Scenario Review: Httt - Hasty Alliance

Post by mcv » April 2nd, 2009, 9:07 am

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
Medium, 1.6

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
About 7. Depending on how you count the need to start over a couple of times before you find the correct defense for the first few turns. After the opening confrontation, it becomes a cakewalk.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear. Don't die, kill some dude. I can do that.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Clear, moderately interesting. The hasty alliance thing is obvious, though I'm still not quite happy with this "armies led by whiny kids" thing, but this scenario is hardly the worst offender.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Keeping that idiot elf lord alive. Kalenz is clearly worse than useless in this battle. Fortunately there's a safe pocket to the south once Delfador kills the one wolfrider there. I tried to help Li'sar, but I'm not sure she really needed the help.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
Starts out as an 8, but after the initial engagement, it quickly falls flat. There's still some dude in the back I need to kill, and I need to walk a bit, but there's absolutely no challenge involved.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Cut the top half off the map, put some more orcs and goblins in distant corners of the bottom half, and have us survive for a single day. Early finish bonus if we clean out the map.

dELFador
Posts: 32
Joined: May 20th, 2009, 4:40 am

Re: Scenario Review: Httt - Hasty Alliance

Post by dELFador » May 24th, 2009, 1:34 pm

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
medium. 1.7
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
2. the ambush was easy to settle with Li'sar's ogres.
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
crystal.
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
a forcefully forged alliance.
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
keeping Li'sar alive without being able to move her.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
10.
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
none.

my strategy was to recall my elf shyde and elite units. and recruit some guardsmen to level up.

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