Scenario 10: Gryphon Mountain

Feedback for the mainline campaign Heir to the Throne.

Moderators: Forum Moderators, Developers

User avatar
Content Feedback
Battle for Wesnoth
Location: #wesnoth @ chat.freenode.net
Contact:

Scenario 10: Gryphon Mountain

Post by Content Feedback » December 7th, 2005, 4:03 pm

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Last edited by scott on March 31st, 2006, 12:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
Mainline Campaigns: Scenario FeedbackDevelopment & Overall Feedback
User-made Add-ons: Feedback

Becephalus
Inactive Developer
Posts: 521
Joined: October 27th, 2005, 5:30 am
Location: St. Paul, Minnesota, USA, Earth

Post by Becephalus » December 9th, 2005, 2:52 am

scott wrote:Keeping with the spirit of Dave's posts, I am ressurecting the practice of seeking scenario feedback. The earlier threads have been very useful so far and have led to significant changes. The goal for HTTT is to make it highly accessible for new players, fun for normal players, and interesting for hard players. For some, hard may end up being too easy, in which case I can only suggest some of the other campaigns.
medium 1.02

3

clear

moderately

Trying to take it with only a few loyal units very quickly so I could make back some of the gold I lost in the previous scenario.

5

BLue seemed a bit of a pushover and the gryphons are not really difficult (Konrad or Delfador can solo them all). Perhaps make both Blue and the gryphons stronger but extend the scenario so you still are able to make some cash.

200 (minimum, I had 57 after the valley)

9 lvl 3, 9 lvl 2 not counting Konrad/Delfador/Kalenz
There are three roads to ruin: by gambling, which is the quickest; through women, which is the most pleasurable; and through taking the advice of experts, which is the most certain. -de Gaulle

Dacyn
Posts: 1855
Joined: May 1st, 2004, 9:34 am
Location: Texas

Post by Dacyn » December 10th, 2005, 7:39 pm

hmm... I still have the saves and feedback posts I did ahead stored on my computer... they are from 0.8.3, though...
1=Easy
2=6
3='Defeat the mother gryphon' seems to imply that you must get the eggs to win...
4=no; it seems as if Delfador has not noticed Robert until turn 2. That is confusing, as the objectives and map have already shown that he is there...
5=Ogres killing the mother gryphon
6=7
7=I think the player should be told that in order to get eggs, one of your units needs to kill the main gryphon. It's basically impossible to get the eggs without knowing this, and I don't think it's fair to give an advantage that is meant specifically for people who save/load or look at tip sites/WML files...
8=1027
9=12

Tux2B
Posts: 1217
Joined: March 29th, 2005, 8:18 pm
Location: Toulouse (South of France)
Contact:

Post by Tux2B » March 30th, 2006, 8:35 am

(1) easy and medium , on Windows with versions 0.8.1 , 0.9.7 and 1.1.2a
(2) 3
(3) Clear enough
(6) 7
(8 ) at least 400
(9) the first time I didn't have more than a couple of lvl2 ones, but the last time I played it I had several lvl3 and around 10 lvl2.

But I most of all want to report a problem I've had with this scenarion the last time I played it on version 1.1.2a, which is that even after having won, I still can't recruit gryphons on Ford of Abez. Is that normal? IIRC, it wasn't so on 0.8.1 and 0.9.7
"There are two kind of campaign strategies : the good and the bad ones. The good ones almost always fail because of unforeseen consequences that make the bad ones succeed." -- Napoleon

User avatar
appleide
Posts: 1003
Joined: November 8th, 2003, 10:03 pm
Location: Sydney,OZ

Post by appleide » March 30th, 2006, 9:11 am

Tux2B wrote: But I most of all want to report a problem I've had with this scenarion the last time I played it on version 1.1.2a, which is that even after having won, I still can't recruit gryphons on Ford of Abez. Is that normal? IIRC, it wasn't so on 0.8.1 and 0.9.7
I thought you need to capture eggs.

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on? 1.0.2
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
7
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
clear enough
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
good
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
getting the eggs
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
7 (5 is average)
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
none
(8 ) How much gold did you have at the start of the scenario?
300-500, cant remember exact amount
(9) About how many higher level units did you have in your recall list? Don't list them out
6 or 7 level 2s. 3-5 level 3s.
Why did the fish laugh? Because the sea weed.

Tux2B
Posts: 1217
Joined: March 29th, 2005, 8:18 pm
Location: Toulouse (South of France)
Contact:

Post by Tux2B » March 30th, 2006, 11:27 am

As an answer to my own question : you have to wait until the Plunging into the Darkness scenario. It makes some scenarios, most of all the Ford of Abez and the Dwarven Doors ones more difficult. But it's true that it is odd to have dwarves riding gryphons before you meet them...
If it is kept like that (like in 1.1.2), maybe the dialogs in the Gryphon Mountain should say that you have to wait unti you get into Knalga. Because as it now is, it makes you think that you can recruit gryphons on next scenario. Either that or make a weaker kind of gryphon riders mounted by elves or humans.
"There are two kind of campaign strategies : the good and the bad ones. The good ones almost always fail because of unforeseen consequences that make the bad ones succeed." -- Napoleon

scott
Posts: 5242
Joined: May 12th, 2004, 12:35 am
Location: Alexandria, VA

Post by scott » March 31st, 2006, 12:19 am

Tux2B wrote: If it is kept like that (like in 1.1.2), maybe the dialogs in the Gryphon Mountain should say that you have to wait unti you get into Knalga. Because as it now is, it makes you think that you can recruit gryphons on next scenario. Either that or make a weaker kind of gryphon riders mounted by elves or humans.
Well, your group of adventurers is planning on having humans or elves ride the gryphons. They have no idea that dwarves and gryphons will get along so well. They probably would have the horsemen try to ride them.

This really baffles me. I can recognize when I'm too close to the situation to be able to step back and view things with an objective perspective, but I still honestly believe the only reason think this is a problem is because it is a change from what people are used to. If you had never played before, and you saw this:
Konrad: "With these gryphon eggs we should be able to breed gryphons that will serve us. When they are large enough to carry mounts, we can hire gryphon riders!"
and soon after, this:
Konrad: "Not her again! We must hurry! Do not forget to bring the gryphon eggs. They must be allowed more time to hatch. Quickly!"
does no one think this is enough information to tell you that you must wait until a later time to get gryphons? I think perhaps the dialog is getting too long-winded, so people quit reading it. Maybe I'll password-protect the Dwarven Doors and hide the password in some dialog somewhere along the way ;).
Hope springs eternal.
Wesnoth acronym guide.

Tux2B
Posts: 1217
Joined: March 29th, 2005, 8:18 pm
Location: Toulouse (South of France)
Contact:

Post by Tux2B » March 31st, 2006, 7:11 am

Indeed, it is probably the fact I was used to something else that made me think I would be able to recruit gryphons on next scenario. Maybe on next scenario there could be something like (in ford of abez) : "Be careful with the eggs! They mustn't get too wet or sink".
"There are two kind of campaign strategies : the good and the bad ones. The good ones almost always fail because of unforeseen consequences that make the bad ones succeed." -- Napoleon

scott
Posts: 5242
Joined: May 12th, 2004, 12:35 am
Location: Alexandria, VA

Post by scott » March 31st, 2006, 1:58 pm

Tux2B wrote:Maybe on next scenario there could be something like (in ford of abez) : "Be careful with the eggs! They mustn't get too wet or sink".
There is! That's what I'm talking about.
Hope springs eternal.
Wesnoth acronym guide.

Tux2B
Posts: 1217
Joined: March 29th, 2005, 8:18 pm
Location: Toulouse (South of France)
Contact:

Post by Tux2B » March 31st, 2006, 6:27 pm

True. But this message emphazes en the "not her again". But never mind, I'm not complaining about anything. It seems, as you said, good enough like you did.
"There are two kind of campaign strategies : the good and the bad ones. The good ones almost always fail because of unforeseen consequences that make the bad ones succeed." -- Napoleon

mega
Posts: 8
Joined: May 23rd, 2006, 11:15 am

Post by mega » May 24th, 2006, 4:06 pm

(1) medium, 1.1.2
(2) 4
(3) wasn't clear at first that I'd miss out on gryphons if it is the enemy who kills the mother
(4) it was ok
(5) how to divide the forces into three groups to win fast while maximizing experience
(6) 4
(7) make those birds more dangerous, maybe wake them all at first contact

fyo
Posts: 29
Joined: September 7th, 2006, 9:56 am

Post by fyo » October 12th, 2006, 2:19 pm

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
medium (1.1.11 and 1.0)
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
3
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Fine in 1.1.11
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
The gryphon-egg thing seems a bit of a stretch, especially coming from Konrad.
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
The biggest challenge is probably to make sure you land the killing blow to the mother gryphon.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
7
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
It's probably a bit too easy. I'd suggest making the mother gryphon harder and make all the gryphons swarm you when you attack even just one. It seems a bit ridiculous that you can just pick them off one by one and the others don't care - even the supposed "mother".

User avatar
irrevenant
Moderator Emeritus
Posts: 3692
Joined: August 15th, 2005, 7:57 am
Location: I'm all around you.

Post by irrevenant » December 31st, 2006, 12:45 am

Wesnoth 1.1.12, so this might have been fixed (Yes, I know - Debian Etch hasn't caught up yet).

The scenario objectives say "Defeat the mother gryphon and the enemy commander" yet the dialogue ("Delfador: Whatever we do, we must pass by this place") indicates that the mother gryphon can be bypassed to complete the mission.

Fafnir
Posts: 6
Joined: November 9th, 2006, 9:19 pm

Post by Fafnir » February 6th, 2007, 6:29 am

I placed one of my men on the mother nest just after she was killed but I wasn't awarded the eggs?

wsultzbach
Posts: 245
Joined: November 28th, 2006, 12:42 am

Post by wsultzbach » February 6th, 2007, 7:35 am

Fafnir wrote:I placed one of my men on the mother nest just after she was killed but I wasn't awarded the eggs?
As long as you kill the mother gryphon you will be able to recuit gryphon riders later.
What's this annoying thing that appears at the bottom of every one of my posts?

Post Reply