Scenario 4: Bay of Pearls

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shadowblack
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Re: Scenario 4: Bay of Pearls

Post by shadowblack » February 22nd, 2011, 5:14 pm

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
1.9.4, Normal

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
1 (2 if you want to avoid losses, have really bad luck, or did really poorly on previous scenarios)

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Very good. I love the sea orc comedy.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Nagas. I always have bad luck against nagas, and this scenario was no exception.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
7 – the sea combat presents a different kind of challenge

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
No changes – it’s fine as it is.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
No.

Thoughts:
I overestimated the fighting strength of the green orcs and over-recruited, but there were enough villages to keep me with positive income even so.

There were two very different types of enemy forces I had to deal with, each requiring different strategy, and this made the scenario more fun than the three before it.
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Maiklas3000
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Re: Scenario 4: Bay of Pearls

Post by Maiklas3000 » April 16th, 2011, 7:46 pm

(1) What difficulty? Challenging (hard); 1.9.5; 267 starting gold
(2) How difficult? (1-10) 7 to not lose more than 1 loyal merman
(3) How clear? Clear.
(4) Dialog? I find the sea orc confusing, but whatever.
(5) Challenges? The sea battle, not losing loyal mermen.
(6) How fun? (1-10) 8
(7) Changes? The ending is anticlimatic. Maybe a better revenue stream for the land orc. Add a cluster of villages far north?
(8) Restarts/reloads? Restarted from start several times when too many mermen died. No save-loads though.

Replay and screenshot attached.
Image

I was a bit stumped about how to keep the loyal mermen alive. My final solution was to "circle wagons" with six of the mermen while the other two went to release the last mermen in the north. Still, I lost one of the mermen sent north. It's probably safer to keep all eight together initially and only confront the two northern guards during daytime. The land battle is easy, if you don't overextend yourself. My advance was so rapid that my last recruits didn't even see battle. It's amusing to me how much easier this scenario is now than when I played it before. I have a lot more experience now, having played through all the mainline campaigns except UtBS.
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Faello
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Re: Scenario 4: Bay of Pearls

Post by Faello » May 17th, 2011, 11:05 am

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?

Challenging (Champion), 1.9.6, no saves/reloads, 326 starting gold

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

5. <for killing both leaders, opening cage with merfolk units guarded by 2 Naga Warriors and getting the Storm Trident>

This map can be reviewed by 2 separate fronts - land & sea:
a)LAND - Managa'Gwin (Orcish Warrior, green) that occupy (NE) keep has 210gp and uses it on lvl1 orcish archers and wolves supported by orcish warriors (lvl2). This force can be easily destroyed in some pitched battle using horseman/knights, slowing attacks from shammies, elvish archers for the ranged damage and elvish fighters for blocks/auxiliary attacks. It is possible to finish him off several turns before the turn limit, so player shouldn't have any problems with it.
b)SEA - Dwaba Kukai (Orcish Warrior, blue) occupies keep on the small isle in the central part of the map. He has only 110gp but recruits mostly naga fighters and bats which can be a deadly mix for players loyal merfolk units, considering the fact that it's much harder to get the initiative in this combat due to the chaotic ToD when AI and player units finally meet. Player can easily lose some merfolk units, so he needs to pull back-regroup-counterattack. After defeating the Managa'Gwin army, player should send some archers to deal with Dwaba Kukai in his keep and use mermen to open the 3,10 prison container with a couple of decent loyal mermen (including merman initiate and merman hunter!) & obtain the powerful Storm Trident (14-2, ranged, magic weapon) for one of the loyal mermen fighters. Finished this one in turn 20/21

8 losses, 36 kills

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?


Crystal clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

It's interesting, ofc Delfador had to go somewhere else to make it harder :P

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?


Obtaining the Storm Trident.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

9.

It's full of action and player can have a rare pleasure to check himself in naval combat - there's also a lot of loyal merfolk units that will join you and a powerful magic item to get. What else would you like to get? :P

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

Maybe add a couple of hexes of different terrain than a grassland on the land part of the map.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?

No.

(9) If you know a bit of the Wesnoth Markup Language - do you think that the WML of this scenario is clear and well commented? If not which part would you like to be documented better?

There was some WML error that I got after choosing the water path to Elensefar.

Replay attached:
Attachments
HttT-The_Bay_of_Pearls_replay.gz
The Bay of Pearls replay, Challenging (Champion) difficulty level, 1.9.6, no saves/reloads
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WanderingHero
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Re: Scenario 4: Bay of Pearls

Post by WanderingHero » June 2nd, 2011, 12:28 pm

(1) Normal 1.96
(2) I haven't got far enough so I can't use your classification. Easier than the first scenario, siege and Valley of the dead (for some reason I found the princess battle very easy). Harder than the Princess battle, port whatever. Seems annoying at first, but once you understand it, not that hard.
(3) I didnt notice the cages at the very top, and i though the merman were referring to the cages in front of the "sea orc". I'd have liked a hint about the storm trident.. didnt know about it till latter
(4) Aside from the above, clear, though not that interesting. The sea orc made me laugh, at least.
(5) See above and OH **** LOADS OF LEVEL 2 WARRIORS. Once they were picked off it got easy as the enemy kept spamming crossbow guys even though I had a bunch of cavalry... derp
(6) 4 kinda dragged, though was satasfying when beaten. Again, didnt add much to the story and wouldn't have kept me playing alone
(7) Make the sea battle quicker or something i guess. Maybe a smaller map? The land battle dragged a bit to. Oh look another wave of orc archers....

Skaithe
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Re: Scenario 4: Bay of Pearls

Post by Skaithe » July 13th, 2011, 9:15 am

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
v1.9.7 - Champion - Callenging

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
4

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Very clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Interesting, taking Delfador from the party was a bit of twist after I'd come to rely on that lightning of his.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
No challenges meeting the objectives... just keeping vets alive is ever the difficult thing. At least in hard mode.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
9 -- lots of fun. The land/sea combo was awesome. Rescuing the mermen was really cool as well.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
I dunno, it was pretty damned fun already.
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vodot
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Re: Scenario 4: Bay of Pearls

Post by vodot » October 17th, 2011, 6:46 pm

1. Difficulty: Challenging (hard); 1.8.6; my first campaign ever; 322g.
2. Challenge: 4. My first naval battle; and I moved onto the next scenario thinking that it went much better than it actually did. Looking back, I absolutely should've reloaded to save more loyal mermen; instead I thought saving a mere couple would be sufficient. Looking back from scenario 10 (where I am now) I would've gladly traded some of my numerous land corps, even some advanced troops, to keep those upkeep-free fish.
3. Clarity: 10. Murder, Death, Kill.
4. Dialog: 3. Did not sufficiently explain captured mermen; did not even mention the trident (lucky up-scroll caught that one); did not explain Delfador's bizarre absence (i get it, but no explanation?); dialog at end is silly. The writing continues to be the sole "gah" point for this campaign. Needs a rewrite. Bugg was great, though.
5. Obstacles: 5. Damn Bats smoked my melee mermen; I critically underestimated the "Drain" effect for such a "weak" unit. Nagas surprised me with their mobility. I absolutely obliterated the orcs, with whom I was by this time quite comfortable.
6. Enjoyment: 7. I thought "this is going well!" Looking back, again, I should've kept wayyy more of the mermen.
7. Changes: Dialogue. Maybe bolster the Orc commander a little.
8. Restarts: 1, or maybe 2, trying to get the hang of sea combat.
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ktchong
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Re: Scenario 4: Bay of Pearls

Post by ktchong » November 20th, 2011, 11:18 am

(1) Normal.

(2) 1, very easy. 2, when I wanted to avoid losing any unit.

(I already have a loyal Paladin at this point. I used the Paladin and a lot of fast-moving horse units to sweep through the villages and gained an early upperhand.)

(3) Clear.

(4) Clear, but not interesting. I wish the liberated Mermen and Naga guards would offer more dialogs and information.

(5) Waiting a few turns for my Mermen to heal so they could take on the Nagas.

(6) At first I was excited to receive my first Merman Fighters. (Yeah! New units!) However, as I received the same Fighter units over and over again, the excitement wore off. This scenario has an overkill of Mermaid Fighters, and not enough Mermaid Initiate and Mermaid Hunter; (it only has one of each.)

This scenario also has poor pacing: by the time I reached the final cage and rescued the Mermaid Initiate and Merman Hunter, the scenario was nearly over, so I did not get the chance to use them in this scenario. They could have been useful if I had received them earlier, (especially an Initiate if I had been able to upgraded her to a Priestess.)

I give it a 5.

(7) The biggest problem of this scenario: it offers too many (ten!) Mermen Fighters as liberated units, and not enough Mermaid Initiate or Merman Hunter. In fact, this scenario offers only one Mermaid Initiate and only one Merman Hunter, only one of each, out of the twelve liberated Mermen. In a following alternate scenario, (i.e., Isles of the Damned,) players receive yet another two Merman Fighters. That is ten plus another two, twelve Mermen Fighters! (When I got the two Mermaid Fighters in Isles of the Damned, I had become so sick of them: "oh, great, more Mermen Fighters.") We really have an overabundant of Merman Fighters, but not enough of other Merman units. We need fewer Merman Fighters and more Mermaid Initiate and more Mermen Hunter.

Ideally, this scenario should offer at least two Mermaid Initiates and at least two Merman Hunters. Two of each units would allow players to conveniently upgrade one Mermaid Initiate to Priestess/Diviner and the other Initiate to Enchantress/Siren, and one Merman Hunter to Spearman/Javelineer and the other Hunter to Netcaster/Entangler. Heir to the Throne, being an introductory campaign, should give players the opportunities to fully learn, explore and experience the unit upgrade trees.

As players already receive so many loyal Mermen in this and a following scenarios, most players may be reluctant to recruit additional Mermaids/Mermen. That means many players would miss out one of the two Mermaid Initiate's upgrade paths and one of the two Merman Hunter's upgrade paths.

A more balanced mix of Mermaids and Mermaid units would be:
- Six Merman Fighters, four Merman Hunters, and two Mermaid Initiates; or,
- Five Merman Fighters, four Merman Hunters, and three Mermaid Initiates, (preferred;) or,
- Four Merman Fighters, four Merman Hunters, and four Mermaid Initiates.

The reason I prefer 5-4-3 is because that is a good mix, and one of the following scenarios (Isle of the Damned) gives another two Fighters so the numbers become a nice 7-4-3.

Secondly, in this scenario we meet Nagas for the first time. Yet they have nothing to say, and not much is said about them. The scenario should have introduced players to the Naga race and explained Nagas through dialogs. The Mermen (maybe the second liberated group) should have warned Konrad about the Nagas. The Nagas should have said something instead of staying quiet during the whole scenario.

Either the Mermen or Nagas should have dialogs that explain how the Nagas became allies with Asheviere and the Orcs, and how Nagas had been the old enemies of the Merfolks. Finally: before the Mermen and Naga guards engaged in battle, they should have bantered and exchanged bitter words through dialogs, to show that how much they despise each other, (and to add interesting dialogs to an otherwise relatively "silent" scenario.)

A big plus would be for the Mermen to tell players about their abilities and how best to use them as they are rescued.

Also, one of the liberated Mermen should tell Konrad about the Storm Trident. The Merman should tells Konrad bout the trident's power and myth or legend, and urge Konrad to recover the trident to help fight against the orcs. In addition, a dialog should also recommend which Merman unit should pick up the trident. (The best Merman unit for the Storm Trident is a Fighter with the Quick trait, which should be upgraded to a Hoplite.)

Finally, the scenario should pace how players receive the Mermaid Initiate and Merman Hunters keep up the excitement of getting new dialogs/information and new units. Here is my recommendation:

- The first group of liberated Mermen would include the basic Fighter units.

- The second liberated group should open up a dialog/warning about Nagas, and tell Konrad about the last cage up north; (i.e., some players may possibly miss the last cage.)

- By now, Merman Fighters are already "old news". To keep the scenario interesting and fresh, the third liberated group should introduce a Merman Hunter. The Hunter should announce himself by declaring how he would use his spear to hunt down the Orcs, (i.e., to keep the excitement of getting new units going, so that player would go, "wow, another new unit!")

- The forth group should include a Mermaid Initiate and possibly another Hunter. This time around, the Initiate should announce herself and her spell-casting ability. The forth group may also want to remind players about the fifth (last) caged group that is further north and easily missed. So the Initiate could suggest that she would use her magic to release/liberate her friends in the last cage, or some kind of dialog like that.

- As the Mermaid/Mermen approach the fifth and final cage, they and the Naga guards should initiate dialogs and exchange fighting words. When last group of Merfolk prisoners are liberated, they should tell Konrad about the Storm Trident and its power, and urge Konrad to recover it.


Here is a couple fun but slightly far-fetched ideas:

The Storm Trident, being so useful in later scenarios, should be guarded by more Nagas. Maybe different Naga units. Especially in the Hard difficulty level. Just to make the scenario more interesting and challenging.

The early part of this campaign has too many Orcs, too many Orc leaders, and too many Orcs strongholds, over and over again. Maybe the second Orc base/stronghold (i.e., the "secondary" objective) should be changed into Naga base/stronghold with a Naga leader. Just to spice up the scenario and campaign a bit. And to make all those Mermen units a bit more useful. (For a scenario that introduces sea battle and water-based units, the Mermen were actually quiet useless in completing the primary and secondary objectives, as both Orc leaders were land-based and usually out of the Mermen's reach.)

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taptap
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Re: Scenario 4: Bay of Pearls

Post by taptap » November 21st, 2011, 5:51 pm

You can recruit merfolk starting from the next scenario, likely it is on purpose that you don't get a well-rounded loyal army at your disposal, but nobody stops you from recruiting initiates and hunters.
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Re: Scenario 4: Bay of Pearls

Post by monokli » November 22nd, 2011, 9:24 pm

Like... I only got to use 2 fighters, the initiate(Oceania) and the hunter (Apalala) in later scenarios, so not much of a problem. Also so many loyal units can become overpowered.

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Re: Scenario 4: Bay of Pearls

Post by cyningstan » November 25th, 2011, 7:31 am

(1) What difficulty level and version...?
Medium, 1.8.6.
(2) How difficult...?
3/10. I won first time, 9 turns early, with few losses.
(3) How clear...objectives?
Very clear.
(4) How clear and interesting...storyline...?
Clear and interesting.
(5) What were your major challenges...?
No major challenge, really. Everything went smoothly and according to plan.
(6) How fun...?
7/10. Good fun. A nice rest after the difficulty I had in the previous scenario.
(7) ...changes...?
I can't really think of any constructive remedies to a minor perception of lack of difficulty.
Damian Walker - fell in battle at Elensefar...

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Ninjuri
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Re: Scenario 4: Bay of Pearls

Post by Ninjuri » May 4th, 2012, 2:14 am

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
easy 1.10.2
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
3
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Freeing the caged mermen was pretty cool, i was ramping up a small army at sea.
(5) What were your major challenges in completing the scenario?
I guess getting the mermen up on land to take out the west enemy, which made them easy targets but it wasn't much of a problem.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
7
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
The little strip of water in front of my base really slowed me down and annoyed me.

Also i saw the trident at the top but thought it was just a thing floating there and ignored it...
Fate is against me.

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Re: Scenario 4: Bay of Pearls

Post by Seldam » December 28th, 2012, 11:58 am

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
medium, 1.10.5;

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
Compared to the others 6.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialogue and storyline of the scenario?
Quite interesting.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
The sea battle.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
7

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
It does not need changes.

I like the alternative goal/s, because you can have more challenge without risk.
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Replay.
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Linthar
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Re: Scenario 4: Bay of Pearls

Post by Linthar » August 13th, 2013, 2:59 am

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Medium 1.10.5

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
5.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
The objectives are pretty clear, however there is no real indication that depending on which leaders you kill you will either be forced into a specific path or given an option. I was easily able to kill both so it wasn't a problem for me but looking at the dialog for only beating a single leader, there only seems to be vague hints at best that there is a second path, and anyways that information would be much more useful at the start of the scenario when you can plan around it, then the end.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
The dialog and storyline was serviceable, but not particularly noteworthy. However I'm writing this feedback after completing the campaign, and despite having finished it I have no idea what was actually in those documents Delfador found. I'm not sure if I was just careless, or if it's never actually explained, but either way a more prominent explanation (that explicitly mentions the documents (as there are several pieces of information Delfador reveals that could be the information in the documents, but is never explicitly stated to be as far as I can recall)) should be included somewhere in the campaign.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
On land the main difficulty was dealing with the complete lack of forests and other easily defensible terrain I had been able to rely on in previous scenarios, but due to playing rather cautiously this didn't prove to be a big issue especially since the green orc sent a number of his units out into the water making the force sent out against my ground units rather weak.

The sea front was a bigger challenge. The main issues was trying to get the last cage open without loosing to many mermen, as I had no healers there were no villages anywhere nearby and I had to fight through a number of nagas vampire bats and a random orc. By the time I was able to reach the cage though the sea orc leader had pretty much run out of units and money to throw at me, and mopping up the sea battle was easy.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
10. I'm a sucker for scenarios with battles occurring on multiple fronts something this scenario really delivers. In addition both fronts have their own individual set of tactical challenges, and the scenario was a rare (at least for my play style) chance to get to play with merman who I only got to use rarely in the campaign.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
The scenarios pretty good as it currently stands. The only thing I would change is to specifically point out the existence of the storm trident, as the way things currently stand it's easy to miss entirely being hidden past the area any fighting will occur, and even if someone does spot it, there's no clue of what it actually is or that it's worth sending a unit over to.

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Re: Scenario 4: Bay of Pearls

Post by SBak » September 30th, 2013, 3:15 pm

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Easy and medium, 1.8.5, 1.10.2 and 1.10.5

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
This I think is highly dependent on how new a player is to Wesnoth. I guess if someone is new or hasn't played the scenario before it can be quite challenging and (when they see a bunch of enemy units with two level2 Orcish Warriors in the bunch) quite daunting. But if you've figured it out and have some sort of a strategy it's a piece of cake.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
At first not that clear but after playing it a few times much clearer.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
The basic premise is okay because looking on the big map (and assuming they've returned from the Isle of Alduin) they could have either landed at the Bay of Pearls or nearby and need to pass there to go north.

However the storyline is both weak and vague. 'Oh look there's some Mermen, let's free them.' Why? Delfador's explanation over why he has to leave is also weak.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
When it comes to meeting the scenario objectives the biggest challenge comes I think in capturing the land Orc's keep and killing him if you want to do it with your land forces (Elves, Konrad, Horsemen, Mages, etc). It's close enough to the water to put any Orc recruited on land and you fighting from the water and access to it is just as restricted as the land mass is from your starting keep.

However the biggest challenge and problem is that here, specifically, you have to make decisions and commit to them which determine your progress through the campaign as far as (at least) The Siege of Elensefar and Crossroads. This is only half the issue, and the other half is that you're going to also have to find a way of having the units to be able to put your decisions into practice.

You also have to fight on two fronts (land and water), keeping track of your progress and making sure that you keep them balanced. The sea battle which you fight with with your loyal Mermen is perhaps the easier of the two. You have to release your units from cages, fight Naga, Bugg the Sea Orc and maybe a few bats.
Spoiler:
On land you have to get to the land mass which is flat terrain with a few mountains and deal with the Orcs which are coming at you. If you are inexperienced you can over recruit easily and end up with a bunch of units and not much XP in any of them. I've found however that this is arguably the best scenario for getting XP for 2-3 units or maybe more if you're lucky.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
It was fun the first few times but pretty much this scenario plays out the same way each time I play it trying to get the 2-3 units (especially on Easy) levelled up for later scenarios. This is either Shamen, Horsemen or Fighters if not Konrad.

However I still think it's quite fun to have the Wolf Riders swim out in pursuit of Mermen never to return.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
I think much more needs to be made of the upcoming battle of Elensefar with perhaps Delfador saying 'If the Orcs are here then surely they have taken Elensefar which is the next major port. We could do with some Mermen [insert introductory text on how to play Mermen] and also more experienced troops. I need to get some support and also find out as much as possible as I can about what is happening.'

Konrad needs to be much more feisty here .. e.g. 'See the Orcs are far away. I'm sure if I can get the Mermen free we can both give these Orcs quite a surprise.'

It's also interesting that if you only defeat the Orcish leader on the island you get to go to the Isle of the Damned where you get a free White Mage, but if you manage to beat both Orcish leaders you get to go to Muff Malal's Peninsula and you don't get anything, not a sausage.

Usually Elrian, the free Mage, needs 54XP, which means that he has to kill both Orcish Warriors (16XP each = 32XP) and if we assume (for argument's sake) that he killed one unit in the Isle of Alduin and maybe has 12XP (giving him 44XP) he would still need to kill a further three level1 units or get the killing blow on one Orcish leader (giving another 16XP as both are level 2 Orcish Warriors on Easy) and at least one other level1 unit.

I think as a parting gift for killing both Orcish leaders a free White Mage would be fitting.

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Re: Scenario 4: Bay of Pearls

Post by Doomchicken » November 8th, 2013, 4:35 pm

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
1.11, the medium difficulty

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
6

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Very clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Clear but not interesting.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Winning the battle on the land, keeping the mermen alive.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
8

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
I really like it as it is, but a bit more varied terrain on the land would make it more tactical.

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