Scenario 19c: Cliffs of Thoria

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Scenario 19c: Cliffs of Thoria

Post by Content Feedback » March 11th, 2008, 3:49 pm

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
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vicza
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Re: Scenario Review: HttT 19c - Cliffs of Thoria

Post by vicza » March 11th, 2008, 5:28 pm

At last, you added this.
I'll write my answer later, but now -- a small bugreport:

Code: Select all


    [event]
        name=moveto
        [filter]
            x=53-55
            y=1-5
        [/filter]

        {VARIABLE waterfall_sighted yes}

        [message]
            speaker=unit
            message= _ "There is a waterfall ahead. It is so high I can barely see the top of it! Neither the Mermen, even less the land dwellers can swim up the waterfall. Even Gryphons might have trouble flying up so far! I am afraid, Your Highness, that we are stuck."
        [/message]
.......


Don't you think the side filter is missing? If don't, look at this picture ;)

P.S. Tags nor smiles don't work on this subforum. I hope it's not intentionally...
You disabled them manualy when submiting the post. Disable BBcode and Disable smiles was toggled on
Attachments
drake2.PNG

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Mist
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Re: Scenario Review: HttT 19c - Cliffs of Thoria

Post by Mist » March 11th, 2008, 8:37 pm

Fixed.
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vicza
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Re: Scenario Review: HttT 19c - Cliffs of Thoria

Post by vicza » March 12th, 2008, 9:10 pm

Sorry that I will not answer that questionnaire this time, I'd better say it in my own words.

First of all, I'd say, this scenario is poor balanced by difficulty. In fact, it's not balanced at all, except for ATTACK_DEPTH and number of turns. But that not changes the number of drakes. There're 12 tents, and from every tent every turn gets out a drake. That'll be on 12th turn 144 drakes. Konrad's mermen are not terminators to kill 'em all. I think that number could be changed depending on the level. E.g., on EASY level drakes get out from every 3rd tent, on NORMAL -- from every 2nd, and only on HARD -- from every one (actually, only this way I could finish this scenario). Or the same with turns: on EASY -- on every 3rd turn etc. Or, at least, make these tents reachable by mermen.

And the same with sea serpents. On EASY level there could be 3 serpents, on NORMAL -- 4, on HARD -- 5.

Then, there is traditional Storm Trident in the sea (which also needs side filter, by the way). But that's fire weapon. What's it against these drakes? Maybe, in this case it should be some "Ice wind trident", for example? Giving cold attack. That would be more useful.

Then, these draugs. They not only don't move (that's good!), they don't fight on their turn, either. That's, of course, is very useful for promoting mermaids initiates, but that's somehow unnatural, I'd say.

Some words about other questions:

>(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

I'd say, the first objective ("Make it to the end of the river") is somewhat unclear, when playing it first time. Who must make it -- Konrad, or anyone of his team? Then, when they see that "the end of the river" is unreachable, they go to the cave. That's another objective, but it's not stated as this.

>(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

Yes, I think they're quite interesting.

netcaster
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Re: Scenario Review: HttT 19c - Cliffs of Thoria

Post by netcaster » May 11th, 2008, 10:43 am

Mythological wrote:(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
(9) If you know a bit of the Wesnoth Markup Language - do you think that the WML of this scenario is clear and well commented? If not which part would you like to be documented better?
1) Medium, 1.4.1

2) 10, can't beat it after several attempts

3) Doesn't matter, can't make it to the other side without dying

4) Good storyline/dialog

5) Getting past the massive never-ending swarm of drakes

6) 8; quite fun but totally unbalanced

7) Reduce the number of drakes that appear! There are just too many. I recall/recruit for 3 turns; tons of mermen, shydes, gryphons. I can get about halfway through before taking heavy losses from the drake reinforcements. Even if I try to 'blitz' the bases with gryphons.. the first few are easy, but the ones past the leader are on islands full of drakes by the time I get there. It wouldn't be so bad if they were 90% the non-flying ones. Oh, and as suggested above, make the special item be cold-based.

8) Severe losses, despair at the sheer number of enemies

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Sergeant
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Re: Scenario Review: HttT 19c - Cliffs of Thoria

Post by Sergeant » January 18th, 2009, 7:37 pm

1) Easy, medium

2) 7 on easy, 10 on medium - I couldn't win the scenario on medium difficulty

3) It was clear.

4) It was interesting.

5) To destroy those tents which were not on the cliffs but on the mountains, to defeat the drake boss, to save Warven

6) 7 It was quite fun on easy, but very struggling on medium.

7) Remove the tent which is on the North mountains and the tent on the East side of the map. It will be better if drakes appear on one or two cliff(s) in each turn.

8) On medium yes, the drakes defeated my force.

9) It's fine.

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Re: Scenario Review: HttT 19c - Cliffs of Thoria

Post by Paul Kauphart » May 16th, 2010, 10:34 am

(1) Medium, but I didn't got the griffon eggs in the Griffon mountain scenario, and that proved to be a serious tactical disadventage
(2) 10
(3) Objective says to reach the end of the river, but who ? Any unit ? The general ?
(4) Very good
(5) Getting to the end of the river
(6) 8 The challenge is different from usual scenarios, that is nice, but it would be better if the amount of drakes wasn't depressing
(7) Reduce the amount of drake each camp can generate, a good idea would be to limit the number of drakes around a camp, ie if 4 drakes are idling next to a camp, it won't create more unless one move or is killed.
(8) Beeing overwhelmed by the drake army
(9) I'm not familiar with WML but I understood the scenario code quite well. Just one thing I couldn't get, when checking the conditions for a camp top generate a drake, it says something like "if side_number=1 then generate", but what exactly is that side number variable ?

Edit : Forgot, I played the 1.8 version

Edit 2 : Great, I managed to get to the end, after 4 days of battle, which makes about 20 hours of game.

That scenario is amazing, it dragged me in a completly different battle from which I experienced before. One where each hex forward has to be fought and planned, where the battle line has to be preserved and where healer are working at maximum capacity all the time. However, I still think it is unbalenced compaired to the rest of the campaign.

At the start, I recalled/recruited about 40 units, all of them lvl1 mermen, exept three lvl 2, two elvish Shydes and one Sylph.
I lost about one third to half of the mermens, and the surviving one all ended lvl 3.


About the objectives, they should definitly be more clear, because any unit can get two the end of the river, but only Konrad can get two the cave entrance, so it's rather confusing.

One last thing, when I saved the injured sergeant, he still couldn't move, so I guess there is some missing commands to restore default moves.

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Re: Scenario Review: HttT 19c - Cliffs of Thoria

Post by Iranon » June 3rd, 2010, 7:54 am

(1) 1.81 on Medium.
(2) 10.5 where 10 is very hard and 11 is impossible.
(3) A little unclear about who has to get to the cave.
(4) Interesting. So much that I was a little disappointed nothing more came of it.
(5) Pushing for the tents quickly with flying hard hitters, without exposing them to too much attrition
(6) 7. The idea is interesting. Some fun also comes from the ridiculous difficulty but I'm not sure this is intentional.
(7) Reducing the spawn rate. Early setbacks are a little too hard to recover from.
(8) Too. Many. Drakes.
(9) No complaints.


This is a rather mean thing to pull on the player on his/her first playthrough. Depending on the units available, this may be close to impossible without save scumming - it's unreasonably hard even if you have a cadre of sylphs and shydes and the ability to recruit griffons. I'm also not convinced about all those Draugs... heavy-handed and possible to exploit.

Mellar
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Re: Scenario 19c: Cliffs of Thoria

Post by Mellar » September 30th, 2010, 3:37 am

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
1.8.4 and Medium

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
7. Before I started playing this scenario, I got the impression that this scenario was extremely hard, but it isn't. If you know you have to recruit a lot of gryphons and mermans, you will manage this scenario pretty well. Most likely you don't have a lot of leveled up mermans and gryphons, so expect some losses when fighting your level 1 units against level 3 and 4 drakes. You will have a lot of loyal mermans from Bay Of Pearls, so your mermain army won't cost you much either.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
This was a bit confusing, because Konrad had to enter the cave first, while Konrad wasn't mentioned specifically. I had also defeated all the enemies before reaching the waterfall, so moving Konrad all the way to the cave was boring and felt like a waste of time.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
The dialogue was interesting, clear and exciting yes.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
My major challenge was killing the drake leader. The leader is extremely strong and my high leveled units was too far up the stream when it was time to attack it. The drake leader killed a lot of my level 1 units before I managed to finish it off.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

9. It's a very different scenario from the others. Instead of the combination dwarves and elves, I know have to use the combination mermans and gryphons.


(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

Any unit (not Konrad only) enters the cave will finish the scenario. Because of the large army I recruited, it would be nice with some more enemies too. Perhaps some saurians to mix it up?

I also miss a clear bonus. In Snow Plains I get the Flaming Sword and in Swamp Of The Dread I get the Void Armor. In this scenario I get the Storm Trident which doesn't help me much in this or later scenarios. In Home of the North Elves I get a loyal level 2 elvish scout. In this scenario I get a level 1 sergeant, which I really don't need. I have already one loyal elf with leadership skills, and several other elves with leadership. I will have to train this Sergeant before I can use his leadership abilities, and I don't have many scenarios left to level him up.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?

Nope, went pretty well, and with a large army and few enemies, it was possible to screen valuable units.

(9) If you know a bit of the Wesnoth Markup Language - do you think that the WML of this scenario is clear and well commented? If not which part would you like to be documented better?

I haven't looked at the code, but the scenario seems to be unfinished compared to the other scenarios in this campaign.

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Re: Scenario 19c: Cliffs of Thoria

Post by Sam-Lloyd » November 21st, 2010, 9:33 am

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
Hard on 1.8.4

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
8 (I tried this scenario on Hard with 1.8.1 but unable to finish it). After 1.8.3, the difficulty is more reasonable

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear but can be made clearer about the waterfall for example

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Good, love it

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
The difficulty is reduced quite a lot, my first attempt was straight success although I messed up by recalling too many lvl 3 dwarves and let quite a few mermen die recklessly

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
Quite fun and relax pace, I love it compare to before 1.8.3

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Give a worthy reward, not the Trident, I got 2 of them already. The sergeant s*cks

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
No, straight to victory
Attachments
HttT-The_Cliffs_of_Thoria_replay.gz
(57.92 KiB) Downloaded 362 times

sideways
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Re: Scenario 19c: Cliffs of Thoria

Post by sideways » January 3rd, 2011, 1:13 am

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
Medium on 1.8.5 and medium - hard 1.8.2

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
3 on 1.8.5
10 on 1.8.2 (I gave up trying)

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Very clear

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Very good

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
None (1.8.5).
In 1.8.2 my problem was killing the drake on the nest to get to it. In the newer version (1.8.5) the nests were sometimes left empty so I could destroy them uncontested.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
8 (1.8.5) - I was a litte let down by the difficulty since I'd done quite a bit of prepping earlier in the campaign in anticipation of this fight.
1 (1.8.2) - Couldn't finish

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
I'd make it a little harder.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
No

My starting unit mix was as follows: 3 mermen hoplites, 6-7 mermen warriors, 1 mermen priestess, 3 mermen fighters, 1 mermen netcaster, 2 shydes, 1 sylph and 2 or 3 keeps of gryphons.

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Re: Scenario 19c: Cliffs of Thoria

Post by atomicbomb » January 16th, 2011, 12:17 pm

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
1.8.5 Hard
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
8. more Difficult if you recruited wrong units.
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear.
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Clear.
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Capturing the camps asap...
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
7.. i like the sergeant bonus.
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
more rewards. it's a hard branch.
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
No..
(9) If you know a bit of the Wesnoth Markup Language - do you think that the WML of this scenario is clear and well commented? If not which part would you like to be documented better?
No..
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Re: Scenario 19c: Cliffs of Thoria

Post by Alarantalara » February 9th, 2011, 9:54 pm

I tried playing it to set up a save for Underground Channels. The last time I played it, it wasn't possible to get griffons, and using land forces to capture the drake bases was so slow and unpleasant that I abandoned it early on.

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
1.9.4, Medium

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
2
Huge keep, and plenty of gold let me recruit 3 full keeps of units that proceeded to outnumber the enemy by a large margin.
I started this one with over 800 gold and had over 900 for the next scenario because of this (finished in 18 turns out of 50).

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear, but the rescue the sergeant objective goes away after you get to the waterfall.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
I didn't read it, was focusing on getting through level.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
None, griffons capture the unoccupied drake spawn points too easily.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
6 I enjoyed using a force where everything is fast.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Not having the endlessly respawning Draugs. Near the end I started killing them over and over for large quantities of experience while waiting for Konrad to slowly walk to the exit.
90% chance to hit translated into ~3-4 kills per turn with minimal damage. I think I leveled at least 6 merfolk to level 3 as well as some experience for Li'sar.

Perhaps providing Konrad a faster way to get to the end of the level. He was never in the fight despite moving forward every turn but the first 2 and I still had to wait 6-7 turns for him to get to the end.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
No

(9) If you know a bit of the Wesnoth Markup Language - do you think that the WML of this scenario is clear and well commented? If not which part would you like to be documented better?

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Re: Scenario 19c: Cliffs of Thoria

Post by GagarinGambit » February 14th, 2011, 1:27 am

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Hard, 1.8.4

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
2. I was disappointed, I expected a hard scenario, but it seems after 1.8.3 it's too easy.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Unclear... after you get the first objective there's a new one and, most important, neither clarifies if Konrad or any unit must make it.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
That's some good dialogue, at last! Woo hoo!

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
None...

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
5. Using your mermen/gryphons and fighting against drakes is a nice change, but it's just too easy.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Clearer scenario objectives and more drakes. Moreover, any unit should be able to complete the last objective, having Konrad moving for 15 turns is no fun at all. Oh, and the reward isn't worth it. There are not enough scenarios left to level the sergeant, not to mention that by now you should have hordes of high level units - a level 3 leader, perhaps?

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
Nope
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Faello
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Re: Scenario 19c: Cliffs of Thoria

Post by Faello » June 18th, 2011, 11:09 pm

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?

Challenging (Champion), 1.9.6, no saves/reloads, 706 starting gold

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

2.

I imagine that this scenario had to be considerably tougher in some previous version of BfW and I don't really understand why the difficulty level was lowered - with +700gp and strong mermen detachment I've almost nuked the wannabe-badass Keh Ohn (Armageddon Drake) and his drakes. Mermen wave cleared the map with the help of gryphon riders easily, but it wasn't really a surprise considering the fact, that drakes bases pumped new units on the map only once in the while and Keh Ohn gold reserves were low (100gp). I've stayed far from the deep water knowing that undeads lurk there and just pursued my dream of adding a sergeant to my army - 8) I've managed to rescue Warven <lvl1, loyal, fearless, sergeant> on the far [SE] island - he was surrounded by a sea serpents, but they were a minor inconvienience. Tried to level Warven up on them, but he had poor aim (probably still dizzy from that poison :P ). Anyway, the supposed-to-be-tough-battle was in fact one of the easiest scenarios I've played in this campaign. Something should be definitely done with it.

Finished in turn 21/45.

1 loss, 20 kills.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Crystal clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

Very interesting, unfortunately scenario difficulty level was lower than expected.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

My personal challenge was to add a powerful loyal unit to my army - Warven was worth chosing this path, unfortunately I wasn't able to level him up.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

7.

I really like to play with mermen and this scenario has potential to be much better than it is now, but it's too easy at this moment.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

Add more opponents!!!

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?

No.

Replay attached:
Attachments
HttT-The_Cliffs_of_Thoria_replay.gz
Cliffs of Thoria replay, Challenging (Champion) difficulty level, 1.9.6, no saves/reloads
(66.91 KiB) Downloaded 310 times
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and smiles as the puppets dance
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