Scenario 23: Test of the Clans

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Laveley
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Joined: November 24th, 2013, 8:16 pm

Re: Scenario 23: Test of the Clans

Post by Laveley » November 27th, 2013, 2:37 pm

It is easier than it looks to kill the 4 knights by using the right tactics: the AI will send 99% of their troops to kill konrad, so just stay with him and defend by the fort.

Send an assassination crew of gryph to sit on the lake and kill the north knight when the path gets clear and another crew with your best knights + elf scouts + other key characters to kill the other 3 knights, starting with the one by the east (south of initial position).

Its quite easy that way, you just dont have to loose any time, Will attach my replay, even thought i made 2 mistakes this game i was able to finish it without any load/save

The first mistake was not rushing the first knight, i loose a round waiting for i dont know what instead of luring him out of the fort ad kill him ASAP, i lost one unit for free because of that, and the second one was that i should have sent at least one, but preferably, 2 more gryphs with the assassination crew to assure the kill of the north knight (got lucky to kill him with just 3 gryphs).
Attachments
HdT-Teste_dos_Clans_replay.gz
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max_torch
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Re: Scenario 23: Test of the Clans

Post by max_torch » December 30th, 2013, 5:58 pm

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
1.10.4 - hard

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
7 to kill 50 units, 9.5 to kill all leaders

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
clear enough

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
its okay but if asheviere is a cruel leader im wondering why the horsemen arent too motivated to kill her right away when they meet konrad?

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
killing the the leaders without load/saving. One time there was one leader left, he was on a forest hex and my merman hoplite went for the kill where one hit would've killed him and the damage calculation showed 91% chance to make a kill but still both attacks missed then on the computer's turn kalenz was killed....

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
10 because I enjoy complex scenarios like this once in a while

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
I would just change the trigger of the dialog where when you kill lord bayar delfador says something like: 'look they are still fighting though their leader is dead!' to not activate if lord bayar was the last leader to be killed, because at this point the scenario would actually be over and no one would fight anymore.

Linthar
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Joined: September 14th, 2006, 12:16 am

Re: Scenario 23: Test of the Clans

Post by Linthar » July 10th, 2014, 2:11 am

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Medium Difficulty 1.10.7

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
5, but I didn't even try to kill all the grand knights.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
The story doesn't particularly make sense. There must be a more sensible way of testing strength then a violent fight to the death which is going to badly hurt both sides. To be fair Konrad does point out that this makes no sense whatsoever, but that doesn't change the fact that the setup for this scenario is kind of silly.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
This scenario could have been quite difficult except for two facts. First I had raised a number of dwarven units to high levels, and was able to recall a force of 4 lords, 1 sentinel, and 1 stalwart. They had the health, and piercing resistance to survive the charges of the enemy lancers and allow me to form a solid defensive wall to bait them into the range of the rest of my units. Probably more importantly though was that my enemies recruited far more knights then they did lancers, and the knights had a tendency to choose to use their swords instead of their lances when attacking my dwarves, so while even my dwarves could have been worn down from repeated charges, for the most part the enemy was choosing to take safer less damaging attacks, which meant my dwarves would take a little damage then all the units they were keeping safe would swarm the knights and kill them. A different unit composition for either side would have made this a far harder scenario.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
7. Its a nice fasted paced scenario where making a small mistake will likely result in a dead unit. Much more engaging then a lot of what had come previously.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Its fine as it is.

Violet-n-red
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Joined: June 27th, 2015, 2:38 pm

Re: Scenario 23: Test of the Clans

Post by Violet-n-red » July 4th, 2015, 11:16 am

this was horribly boring, somewhat fun and wery risky at the same time depending on which part of the battlefield i would watch.

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
normal, 1.12.2, enough gold to recruit like five waves of troops.
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
10
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
not perfectly clear: i was not sure if Conrad HIMSELF has to land a killing blow on enemy leaders for them to join me. turns out that was not necessary.
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
good, but not perfect. a bit more bragging by the knights about honorable combat and the right of the strongest would've been good. without it, they look like cowards hiding behind shiny armour and staying as far from combat as possible.
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
trying to get enough riders to the enemy leaders. with each turn after killing first commander i was losing soem of them. they were close to being overwhelmed at the last commander's keep, but they succeeded. i would not have lsot anyway because they killed enough units for me to become victorious in a turn or two anyway.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
1/8/10 depending on... many things.
first things: map is OVERWHELMINGLY HUGE. that turned me away first few times i tried to start playing it. same happened with another one in different campaign, but that one was much worse. long travel times - it's not just about animation - i've sped that up to the max, it's also about just clicking every single unit to go forward. considering how many units i had and how plain the lands were, that was super boring. throwing an occasional rider to the side to bait out enemies was not helping make things more fun.
second: assassinating the leaders with horse riders. that was OK.
third: defending my veterans and heroes with no money, almost no reinforcements against hordes of (possibly instagibbing) lancers. a lot of running and dying was involved. battle started at the village near the river and mountains and slowly moved towrds bottom camp. that was great.
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
no idea. it is good and bad at the same time.
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
yes, because of unclear objective, i reloaded when i discovered i don't have to kill each commander with Conrad, but just any unit. restarted from the beginning and completely changed tactics, was successful after that.

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SigurdFireDragon
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Re: Scenario 23: Test of the Clans

Post by SigurdFireDragon » April 7th, 2016, 11:02 pm

Played on 1.12.5 Hero (Normal) 1117 gold

A great change of pace, had to make good use of zoom in/out, show enemy moves, and the minmap for this one.
Plot & dialog seemed fine.
I think the enemy knights could use team colors to better tell apart who was speaking, similar to how it was done in Blackwater Port.

I took two attempts at this board, both times I was aiming for defeating all four enemy leaders

Scenario Strategy
1st Attempt:
I miscalculated a bit. Tried to limit myself to 400 gold, figured I would send my main army south using some guardsmen & assasins, and have gryphons & the elvish angles take out the northeastern leader. As I didn't account for the village acquisitions made by the enemy sides, this failed badly, ending in defeat. I decided I was going to restart around turn 12 but played on to see what I could do.

2nd Attempt:
Decided I was gonna use up to 600 gold, and deploy 3 groups consisting of 3 guardsman, 2 elvish archers, a elvish healer. Each group backed up by leadership and caster units. And some gryphons/scouts for village grabbing. 1 group to head to the villages south of the lake, 1 group for the villages in the center of the map, and the 3rd group to take out the southern leader. I recalled some additional troops at the southern keep. This worked out well until I ran into the 35 kill limit. As I had gotten two out of four enemy leaders, I figured I didn't need to get all 4, with the 2 bonus loyals, my recall list, and the carryover gold earned.
Attachments
HttT-Test_of_the_Clan_replay_T18-2V0.gz
1.12.5 Normal (Victory)
(143.77 KiB) Downloaded 178 times
HttT-Test_of_the_Clan_replay_T19-1D0.gz
1.12.5 Normal (Defeat)
(137.75 KiB) Downloaded 173 times

Caladbolg
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Re: Scenario 23: Test of the Clans

Post by Caladbolg » April 11th, 2016, 6:21 pm

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
1.12.5, medium.

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
10. I went for taking down all enemy leaders and that was the hardest part of the entire campaign, slightly more difficult than taking down all enemy leaders on the Valley of death. While I didn't try going just for 35 kills, I've replayed this scenario enough times to get a rough idea of how hard that would be (just 35 kills ~5, killing 1 leader ~5.5, killing 2 leaders ~8, killing 3 leaders ~9). If you surround your keep with guardsmen and support them with healers, charging units should just smash themselves against your defenses. Your horsemen can then mop up archers. If you have enough strength to kill 35 units, killing one leader (the closest one) is not that much harder. Killing 2 is quite harder as other leaders are across the map and by the time you reach them they have enough income to pump out a knight almost every turn. Killing 3 leaders is very difficult but can be done with careful distribution of units. Killing the fourth one is difficult because by the time you reach him, you've probably already killed ~30 units so you need to be careful not to kill units guarding him while at the same time ensuring you have an open path to him.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
I'm not sure why the enemies think that managing to beat them without killing 35 units is more impressive than managing to beat them and the entirety of their army. Everything else is alright.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
There were many... accepting that I'll have to lose units, keeping my important units protected with proper positioning and using baits to lure out enemies, ensuring that I have enough villages to support my army, coordinating battles all across an entire map, planning several steps ahead (which I don't usually do) and deciding when to take risks.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
6. It is very different than any scenarios so far which makes for a very interesting and challenging experience. However, the sheer number of units I lost and the frustration of not being able to get all enemy leaders on first try and having to replay it over and over ruined it for me (I guess that's my own fault for being a completionist). The map is big but maybe too big and unattractive. The dynamic with enemy utilizing charging units is interesting but it's really not my cup of tea.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Any changes I might suggest would be aiming towards making things easier and that's just a personal preference. I recognize that this is supposed to be a very difficult scenario and that getting all leaders is supposed to be an extra challenge and not a focal point of the scenario.

Anyways, I've played this scenario some 5-6 times because I wanted to get all leaders. While I had enough gold to destroy everyone (because I came from the underground channels which gave me enormous carryover), I restricted myself to 666 gold (400 default plus 266 which would be the carryover from the previous scenario with the restrictions I used there). In my attempts I used risky tactics (such as using Li'sar as a lure for knights- not a good idea :augh: ) which led to me losing rather quickly. I also tried approaching the situation from various angles to see what works the best (I quit attempts halfway through because I realized they wouldn't work). As such, all of the replays were quite short, either ended because I saw that the situation is hopeless or because my critical gambles failed. Because of that I didn't save any of them. The replay provided is of my last attempt in which I finally managed to acquire all leaders.
Note: On my first few turns I made sure that I don't go over the budget I set for myself and later on, when my income could support new units, I recruited/recalled some more. In other words, at no point did I go over my intended budget (just in case someone is confused about the total amount spent at the end being over 666).

Without further ado:
-starting gold: 1147 (limiting myself to 666)
-recruits(31): Gryphon Rider, 30x Horseman
-recalls(5): General (loyal), Shyde, 3x Silver Mage
Details:
-turns taken: 21/50
-end: 621 gold, 17/52 villages, all enemy leaders defeated
-carryover: 875
-no reloads, 6 (?) attempts total
-losses(31): Gryph Rider, Silver mage, 2x Knight, 27x Horseman
-advancements(3): General->Grand Marshal, 2x Horseman->Knight
-XP: well, no one remained except recalls which are already at their final level and a single horseman with 1 XP.
-dmg dealt: +2%
-dmg taken: +1%
Attachments
HttT-Test_of_the_Clan_replay.gz
(116.59 KiB) Downloaded 161 times

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Eagle_11
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Re: Scenario 23: Test of the Clans

Post by Eagle_11 » September 17th, 2016, 4:44 pm

The extra(?) objective of Konrad having to personally defeat Baron Bayar so he accompanies personally into the siege may not really be accomplishable, as kill 35 clan members came before it at any try. The furthest i had got was just past the bridge before some purple archers suicided into my bee-lined up caravan of units, thus fulfilling the counter.
I can suggest Konrad(and perhaps Lisar too?) mounting an horse for duration of level, as main problem is to bring him over there with his slow speed, if he can move same speed as horsemen should probably become doable in time.

Either that or this bonus objective has an very specific tactic.

Tad_Carlucci
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Re: Scenario 23: Test of the Clans

Post by Tad_Carlucci » September 18th, 2016, 7:49 am

Eagle_11 wrote:Konrad having to personally defeat Baron Bayar so he accompanies personally into the siege
I assume you're on an older version.

I checked 1.12.6 and the bonus objective is simply to defeat all 4 of the clan leaders, and any unit can stroke the killing blows. The distance can be daunting; Gryphon Riders can help, if you have them. I've not tried using only Knights but they should have the mobility you'll need, as well.
I forked real life and now I'm getting merge conflicts.

graxwell
Posts: 3
Joined: March 29th, 2018, 10:59 pm

Re: Scenario 23: Test of the Clans

Post by graxwell » March 29th, 2018, 11:54 pm

Content Feedback wrote:
March 8th, 2006, 10:09 pm
(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
Medium difficulty and version 1.12.6.
Content Feedback wrote:
March 8th, 2006, 10:09 pm
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
7. Challenging and slightly frustrating but that's part of the appeal of this scenario.
Content Feedback wrote:
March 8th, 2006, 10:09 pm
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
I recruited two turns of mixed human and elven cavalry, and quickly killed the southeastern general before any troops could reinforce him. Then I sent all of my cavalry ahead to kill the mostly unguarded generals, and recruited a turn of healers and levelled Dwarven Guardsmen & Fighters to protect my slow-moving essential troops . I used the guardsmen, healer, and the defensive bonuses provided by the late general's castle to take almost no losses while my cavalry killed the generals, taking heavy losses in the process.
Content Feedback wrote:
March 8th, 2006, 10:09 pm
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Very adequate.
Content Feedback wrote:
March 8th, 2006, 10:09 pm

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Killing the generals with only cavalry was challenging since even a single enemy could frequently kill one of my units before I could stop it. I beat the scenario with only two survivors of the original 10-ish cavalry.
Content Feedback wrote:
March 8th, 2006, 10:09 pm
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
7. This one is a nail-biter, because of how easy it is for your troops to die.
Content Feedback wrote:
March 8th, 2006, 10:09 pm
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
As I mentioned above, the sudden death nature of the scenario can be frustrating, but for me it was part of the fun.

LordWolfDan
Posts: 150
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Re: Scenario 23: Test of the Clans

Post by LordWolfDan » October 22nd, 2018, 8:03 am

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?

- 1.14.5, Beginner

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

- 5

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

- Let's say easy, either kill 25 units or just kill the leaders

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

- Interesting and fun

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

- Lancers, lancers and more lancers...

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

- 7

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

- None to think

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