Scenario 19a: Snow Plains

Feedback for the mainline campaign Heir to the Throne.

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LordWolfDan
Posts: 216
Joined: September 30th, 2018, 7:31 am

Re: Scenario 19b: Snow Plains

Post by LordWolfDan »

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?

- 1.14.5, Beginner

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

- 5

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

- Easy, kill the orc and find the sword (optional)

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

- There wasn't too much dialogue, yet I liked by now how determined Konrad is to avenge his slain family and relatives

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

- Making it through the snow

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

- 5

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

- Having an additional enemy, with my encampment being placed in the middle while the other enemy could be at southwest. Definitely much more challenging scenario
Konrad2
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Posts: 3330
Joined: November 24th, 2010, 6:30 pm

Re: Scenario 19a: Snow Plains

Post by Konrad2 »

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?

1.15.1, Champion (Challenging)

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

3

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

Clear.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

None.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

5

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

-
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Zrevnur
Posts: 117
Joined: January 11th, 2020, 12:04 pm

Re: Scenario 19a: Snow Plains

Post by Zrevnur »

Content Feedback wrote: March 8th, 2006, 10:07 pm (1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
1.14.9 Challenging (in Ironman mode), played once
Content Feedback wrote: March 8th, 2006, 10:07 pm (2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
2, Orcs being very slow in the snow makes the AI too easy.
Content Feedback wrote: March 8th, 2006, 10:07 pm (3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
It should be made more clear who can pick up the sword and what it does. I didnt understand the fluff description. Nor do I understand why only the leader of an army can pick it up.
cannot_use_message= _ "Only the leader of an army can wield this sword!"
[filter]
type=Fighter,Commander,Lord,Princess,Battle Princess,Elvish Captain,Elvish Hero,Elvish Marshal,Elvish Champion,Paladin,Elvish Lord,Elvish High Lord
x,y={X},{Y}
[/filter]
Since when is an 'Elvish Hero' "the leader of an army"?
I also was under the (false) assumption it would give an additional melee attack - similar to how the trident gives an additional (ranged) attack. It would help if the description before picking it up would say what it actually does.
(I would have brought a Dwarf Lord if I would have known what it does. But can a Dwarf Lord pick it up? Does the name have to fit fully? If not why is an 'Elvish Hero' "the leader of an army" but a 'Dwarf Lord' not?)
Content Feedback wrote: March 8th, 2006, 10:07 pm (4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Clear enough except for the points under 3) and the tone of Lisar seems inconsistent with earlier Lisar. I dont know if this should be attributed to earlier scenario/s or this one.
Content Feedback wrote: March 8th, 2006, 10:07 pm (5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Picking up the sword and how it works - see above.
Content Feedback wrote: March 8th, 2006, 10:07 pm (6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
4
Content Feedback wrote: March 8th, 2006, 10:07 pm (7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
There is a reward inequality with the other branches. I did not know that. I would have picked one of the other branches if I would have known. This could be fixed by making the rewards more equal. Note here that defensive buffs are much better than similar offensive buffs due to the way the AI plays, the campaign logic and the way how randomness in Wesnoth works.
Somewhat tangential but also somewhat relevant here: There is also the additional problem that too much offense can be fatal due to suicide chaining. Optimally this part however should be fixed by making suicide chaining impossible. I do not think its a good feature. Fluff-wise it makes no sense at all. If 5 zombies charge my Knight and get killed the 6th wouldnt even be able to get over the pile of bodies in the way. And fluff-wise it makes no sense that a wimpy mage is better at holding off zombie hordes than an armored knight.
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mal_shubertal
Posts: 93
Joined: December 1st, 2018, 6:58 pm

Re: Scenario 19a: Snow Plains

Post by mal_shubertal »

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
1.16.2 Challenging
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
5
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Very. The initial dialog was pretty vague that the sword was SOMEWHERE on the map, but in these 'searching' scenarios the first step I take is to check all the villages, and I like that it gives you a little extra hint when you get the village near the tree.
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
I like it. I always like when the fluff shows the elves' bad side. In a lot of high fantasy, including Wesnoth, elves are portrayed as always very wise and cool-headed, so I like how this shows the problems with their extreme arrogance, with how a bunch of elves left their buddy to die just because they were jealous of his shiny sword.
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
The snow, obviously, as well as the lvl 3 trolls which moved surprisingly well in snow.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
10. I liked it a lot. Much like the all-cave scenarios, this all-frozen scenario invalidates a lot of your recall list and opens up new possibilities. The unusual AI recruit list of all lvl 1 wolf riders, lvl 2 archers, and lvl 3 trolls also was an interesting challenge that encouraged different player strategies. The AI was also very annoyingly smart about pulling back behind their keep during the daytime once I was closing in, which also forced some tough choices and thinking hard about positioning and which units were expendable. The search for the sword was also interesting, as it gave you something else to think about rather than just beating the enemy.
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
I really like it as is.
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ElvishMystical0
Posts: 33
Joined: September 19th, 2018, 12:15 am

Re: Scenario 19a: Snow Plains

Post by ElvishMystical0 »

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Versions 1.12 to 1.16 Easy and Medium. This feedback specifically relates to 1.16 Medium.
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
This was a 6-7.
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Very clear.
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
This was actually quite fascinating and gives you an insight into the Elves who aren't always the high minded, wise tree huggers they make themselves out to be.
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
This can be a very harsh scenario if you don't know what you are doing. You're dealing with snow so movement and positioning is an issue. The AI plays Orcs and Trolls usually very well, but in this scenario I feel it goes up a notch and the clue is in the fact you get level 1 Wolf Riders, level 2 Orcish Crossbowmen and level 2 and 3 Trolls. You're up against the ultimate Orcish Winter Strategy.

You have to be mindful of not underestimating your enemy and you have to make allowances for Random Number Generator and frozen terrain. This is a scenario where you get punished for your mistakes.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
This is easily an 8 or 9. It's a good choice if like me you have a poor recall list or don't have that much gold. You need Gryphon Riders to get to the villages and pick off stray Wolf Riders and Orcish Crossbowmen, just keep them well away from any Trolls as they're vulnerable to impact. You also need healers and heavy hitters.

Most recently I've played this scenario with my starting units a level 2 Druid, a Bandit and level 1 units. Li'sar got the flaming sword and I won comfortably with a few levelled units. You get a few patches of terrain, forest and hills and you have to dash through the snow before the Orcs and Trolls reach you and transform you into meat paste.
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
No suggestions. I love this scenario.
JL42
Posts: 66
Joined: December 9th, 2023, 11:19 am

Re: Scenario 19a: Snow Plains

Post by JL42 »

What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
v. 1.16.10
Lord / Challenging
How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
4
How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Very clear.
How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Like the previous couple of scenarios, the dialogue around the princess is confusing and a bit unbelievable. The princess continues in her insane contemptuous and whiny mode, making me wonder why we don't just leave her on the side of the road for the orcs to finish off. Kalenz and Delfadore again have to tell her to stop being such a brat. Then suddenly Konrad declares that the princess "wants to end her mother's rule." What? Li'sar never indicated that she wanted to oppose her mother. This really just needs some kind of rewrite to give her a better character and sense of motivation. As I mentioned in the previous scenarios, it would work much better here if the princess, rather than being a total brat, were thoughtfully evaluating Konrad's character and likelihood of success – "I've had to bide my time, not seeing any hopeful alternative to Wesnoth's dishonor; but you, Konrad, are starting to make me think that this evil era could be ended."

Another issue here is that, despite all the characters' yapping, there is never any explanation of the enemy at all – the orcs are just kind of there, and once you defeat them it's like, yay you won. Should at least be some kind of statement like, "We must fight our way through this orcish territory."
What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
It's a fun challenge to work with the low-defense terrain, which merits an aggressive style to take out the enemies before they can launch a coordinated attack. Have to think carefully about what units are best for the snow. Overall this is another great XP-building map that manages to keep things interesting while letting you level up more units.
How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
7
What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
None, other than the dialogue improvements as noted above.

---------------
About the Overall Campaign:

The maps and storyline here are well-made and polished, though not as completely epic as some of the other campaigns. I like that it is lengthy, giving you time to develop your army, and gradually introduces many different terrains and unit types. This seems like a great beginner campaign since it's fairly easy and the early scenarios are framed as a kind of mentoring environment for the young hero. (However, it's a bit strange that some of the basic dialogue tips, like "hey, loyal units don't require upkeep!" are just now arriving, after I've already played through several previous campaigns without that advice.) There are some glitches that can come up in the Scepter of Fire scenario, and some of the princess-related dialogue around scenarios 17–21 felt a bit confusing and unbelievable (more specific comments in the relevant threads). This campaign is very close to full marks, but due to those few lingering issues and the lack of any real epic blow-you-away maps I'm going to rate it 4 out of 5.
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