The Sceptre of Fire

This is the place for discussing development of mainline campaigns, reporting bugs in them and providing overall feedback.

Moderators: Forum Moderators, Developers

Post Reply
User avatar
santi
Lord of Wesmere
Posts: 1320
Joined: April 6th, 2004, 12:32 pm

Post by santi »

I have only looked at the first scenario, so I do not know if the idea is that
in this campaign the dwarves get to build the sceptre of fire(which
is probably in conflict with HttT, as Garard I gives the ruby to the dwarves to make it into a sceptre and it gets lost when the orcs invade Knalga)

Slight story problem: I suggest to have Haldric himself(Haldric I) seek the
ruby left in the troll hole. This is because in the Kalenz campaign(
Legend of Wesmere) Crelanu is banished by Haldric when he discovers that unshielded the ruby drives its owner umm, crazy.
This situation continues for many kings until Delf comes in contact with
the elves who have heard this story from Crelanu himself and
this is how he advises the king to shield the darn ruby of fire by making it into a sceptre. So during Haldric I's reign the ruby must have been recovered from the troll hole and Haldric must have it with him.

Also, since the ruby of fire is not turned into the sceptre of fire for
many many years(till Garard), maybe ruby f fire would be a more appropriate title?

User avatar
turin
Lord of the East
Posts: 11662
Joined: January 11th, 2004, 7:17 pm
Location: Texas
Contact:

Post by turin »

The dwarves DO get to build the scepter in this campaign. And yes, it does conflict with HttT, but in this case I don't have a problem with that, because I think that the story of the creation, as told in HttT, is very 1) boring, 2) unbelievable, and 3) should be changed. Thus I changed it, for this campaign at least. It DOES deal with the sceptre's creation.

However, you could run through the campaign (use debug mode and :n if you don't have time to actually play it). If it conflicts with LOW, let me know, and if its not too large a change I'll try to correct it.
For I am Turin Turambar - Master of Doom, by doom mastered. On permanent Wesbreak. Will not respond to private messages. Sorry!
And I hate stupid people.
The World of Orbivm

scott
Posts: 5242
Joined: May 12th, 2004, 12:35 am
Location: Alexandria, VA

Post by scott »

Maybe you guys should have a quick pow-wow on the wiki history page to get the storyline worked out. There could be a separate section at the end to sketch out how TRoW, LoW, tSoF, and HttT all interact to create one streamlined thread of history.

I do like the idea of the ruby causing madness. It seems like it could be made to explain a lot with the relative rising and decline of Wesnoth's greatness over the centuries. I'll make a skeleton in the wiki and you guys can fill it in.
Hope springs eternal.
Wesnoth acronym guide.

User avatar
santi
Lord of Wesmere
Posts: 1320
Joined: April 6th, 2004, 12:32 pm

Post by santi »

Ok, the conflict with LOW is simply what I outlined: Namely the radiation from the ruby is too much for 'any fool' in Crelanu's terminology, i.e.
anything less than a super-duper mage to handle and drives them more
and more arrogant. (See the LOW scenario 'Revelations'). The elves
learn this and they also get to keep Crelanu's book. Much later,
they come in contact with a human who is truly worth it, so Delf gets
both Crelanu's book and is also told Crelanu's story and about the ruby's
effects. The reason I designed
this in LOW was to be consistent with Wesnoth history as in the Wiki and as HttT. Now, personally I do not have a problem with a camgaign
contradicting this unless this is 'mainline campaign', i.e. imagine
Haldric showing up in EI or something like that. But I suspect many will
and especially the Wesnoth history maintainer.

Overall I think your campaign will be a very neat idea and can probably
be easily made to conform with everything else:

If you want the troll hole story(not my favorite):
-replace Haldric II with Haldric
-cut the story at the point where Haldric gets back the ruby and continue later with King Garard

If you are willing to skip momentarily the Haldric-troll hole story(my vote)
-Replace Haldric II with Garard
-Garard hands the dwarves the ruby asking them to make it into a sceptre. You can have Delf there who is a colorful character and could add
a couple of lines
-the dwarfs are going to transport the ruby to their best craftsmen
-One dwarf carelessly or because they are attacked by trolls/orcs
loses the ruby.
-Since a lot of silver is at stake, the dwarves organize an
expdedition to recover it
-they have to fight orcs/trolls but eventually recover it
-then the orcs invade Knalga and the craftsmen hide it in a cavern while
they are about to be overrrun by orcs


I think in the second option you lose nothing, you can have the
search party expedition and you keep consistency
with everything else. perhaps this can lead to more scenaria.
But it's your call.

User avatar
santi
Lord of Wesmere
Posts: 1320
Joined: April 6th, 2004, 12:32 pm

Post by santi »

I forgot to mention that this knowledge of the ruby's effects
also helps to explain the southern elves cold attitude towards human kings
in Delf's Memoirs(one of my favorite campaigns).
North elves will help them, but only after they have met Delf.

scott
Posts: 5242
Joined: May 12th, 2004, 12:35 am
Location: Alexandria, VA

Post by scott »

What if instead of the ruby it's the sceptre itself? Let's say at this point in the game, the sceptre is still unshielded, and Delfador goes to have it shielded, then it's lost. That would explain why Garard I is hot to get it back. I have to admit I'm not really familiar with the plot of your campaign, but it would be nice to figure out how to allow Turin's campaign to keep the "official history compatibility stamp". I just remembered Delfador's Memoir's might have something to say about timing issues, and it's been a long time since I played that one too.
Hope springs eternal.
Wesnoth acronym guide.

User avatar
santi
Lord of Wesmere
Posts: 1320
Joined: April 6th, 2004, 12:32 pm

Post by santi »

In TROW there is no sceptre, just ruby. It's Shade who suggested
(Haldric in Winter in Southbay 'Ouch this is hot, somebody ought to attack a string to it or something) that the ruby of fire becomes the SoF.
But your version is fine too, perhaps Haldric or a descendant did make it into a sceptre, but did not use the right metal and the radiation is still unshielded(so add some lead to the sceptre, which among other things will make it much heavier, so that only a King can carry it-sorry L'isar-
and also can use it at close range to smash heads :lol: ).


The LOW story that is relevant is just the 'Revelations' scenario
which just lays it all out. This is just a dialog scenario, so one can simply read it. Not much more than what I already outlined here as far as the ruby is concerned.

I think Turin's story only needs some minor modifications to make it
Wesnoth-history-compatible.

User avatar
turin
Lord of the East
Posts: 11662
Joined: January 11th, 2004, 7:17 pm
Location: Texas
Contact:

Post by turin »

Um, I'm not particularly interesting in keeping this scenario wesnoth-history compatible, because IMHO the sceptre of fire part of wesnoth's history is very poorly written and planned out. This campaign proposes an alternative version.

I mean, its great that you can think of ways it can be changed to be compatible... but its probably not going to change, at least in the ways listed here. Haldric II will NOT turn into Haldric I; the sceptre will NOT be created during the reign of Garard, but rather during the reign of Haldric II.

I'll have to play LOW and the more recent versions of DM to get a sense of what the other inconsistencies are.
For I am Turin Turambar - Master of Doom, by doom mastered. On permanent Wesbreak. Will not respond to private messages. Sorry!
And I hate stupid people.
The World of Orbivm

scott
Posts: 5242
Joined: May 12th, 2004, 12:35 am
Location: Alexandria, VA

Post by scott »

That's why I think an alternate history should be sketched out by you two until everything makes sense, and then everyone can be writing from the same history book. Once stuff gets out of hand it will be a complete Charlie Foxtrot.
Hope springs eternal.
Wesnoth acronym guide.

User avatar
santi
Lord of Wesmere
Posts: 1320
Joined: April 6th, 2004, 12:32 pm

Post by santi »

Ok, I'm available. Turin, I'm open to suggestions, probably you want to play DM and LOW first?(see also the DM thread towards the end)
But I'm afraid if SoF remains as is, then HttT also needs to change.

User avatar
turin
Lord of the East
Posts: 11662
Joined: January 11th, 2004, 7:17 pm
Location: Texas
Contact:

Post by turin »

santi wrote:Ok, I'm available. Turin, I'm open to suggestions, probably you want to play DM and LOW first?(see also the DM thread towards the end)
But I'm afraid if SoF remains as is, then HttT also needs to change.
Yeah. Once the campaign server gets back up I'm going to get LOW and DM and debug through them.
For I am Turin Turambar - Master of Doom, by doom mastered. On permanent Wesbreak. Will not respond to private messages. Sorry!
And I hate stupid people.
The World of Orbivm

scott
Posts: 5242
Joined: May 12th, 2004, 12:35 am
Location: Alexandria, VA

Post by scott »

Also, don't forget about the wiki. At the bottom of the history page is a section just for you to work this out, which could be helpful if httt needs changes.
Hope springs eternal.
Wesnoth acronym guide.

scott
Posts: 5242
Joined: May 12th, 2004, 12:35 am
Location: Alexandria, VA

Post by scott »

Since the server is back up, I downloaded the most recent version. How in the world are you supposed to know (besides peeking at the WML) you have to go to 7,27 to fill the caravan up???

EDIT: I had an idea - you could use the unused leanto graphic included with the game to indicate the place where the silver is held. Up to you. I also wanted to ask you how you decided to use the shield with the leader. I faced the same question and decided that the crown was sufficient and people had prior experience with the crown so a shield would be unnecessary. I realize it's inconsistent use of the shield, but I went with less is more.
Hope springs eternal.
Wesnoth acronym guide.

User avatar
turin
Lord of the East
Posts: 11662
Joined: January 11th, 2004, 7:17 pm
Location: Texas
Contact:

Post by turin »

scott wrote:Since the server is back up, I downloaded the most recent version. How in the world are you supposed to know (besides peeking at the WML) you have to go to 7,27 to fill the caravan up???
Um, isn't there a signpost? :?
scott wrote:EDIT: I had an idea - you could use the unused leanto graphic included with the game to indicate the place where the silver is held. Up to you.
The leanto might indeed look better.
scott wrote:I also wanted to ask you how you decided to use the shield with the leader. I faced the same question and decided that the crown was sufficient and people had prior experience with the crown so a shield would be unnecessary. I realize it's inconsistent use of the shield, but I went with less is more.
I just went ahead and gave all the heroes the shield. I wanted to be absolutely sure there was no confusion.
For I am Turin Turambar - Master of Doom, by doom mastered. On permanent Wesbreak. Will not respond to private messages. Sorry!
And I hate stupid people.
The World of Orbivm

scott
Posts: 5242
Joined: May 12th, 2004, 12:35 am
Location: Alexandria, VA

Post by scott »

I just had a pile of rocks. I'll take a look at the WML.

Ok I looked. signpost.png isn't in the images directory, it's in a subdirectory. You need image=misc/signpost.png or wherever it is.
Hope springs eternal.
Wesnoth acronym guide.

Post Reply