Legend of Wesmere

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Legend of Wesmere

Post by Development Team »

The purpose of this thread is to discuss the development of the mainline campaign "The Legend of Wesmere".

Please check the version of Wesnoth you are using before posting.
Comments on the 1.7 and 1.8 versions are meant to go there:
Version 1.8 Development Thread

There are feedback threads for each scenario in the campaign available:
Mainline Campaign Feedback -- The Legend of Wesmere

Comments and discussion regarding the multiplayer port of the campaign go to:
Legend of Wesmere - Multiplayer Campaign Port

fabi
Developer
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Joined: March 21st, 2004, 2:42 pm
Location: Germany

Re: [1.9.x/1.10.x] Legend of Wesmere

Post by fabi »

Several changes to the campaign will make it to the 1.9.1 development version.
They are in particular:

Separate keeps for each leader (except Cleodil).
Map updates regarding the new terrain types and graphics.
Cleodil, Olurf and Landar got more speech.

Scenario 1:
In that scenario the player(s) can only recruit "Elvish Archer" and "Elvish Fighter".
The objectives changed from reaching a signpost to defeat a random leader chosen by the player(s).

Scenario 2:
Still the recall list of the player(s) only consist of "Elvish Archer" and "Elvish Fighter".

Scenario 3:
Renamed some of the locations.
From this scenario on, Kalenz and Landar are able to recruit "Elvish Scouts" as well.
Galdrid and El'Isometir can recruit the full range of elvish units.

Scenario 4:
At the point Cleodil and her party is freed the player(s) are able to recruit the "Elvish Shaman".

Scenario 5:
Removed the tomato surprise treasury guard and adjusted the ai to hunt down the gold carrier instead.

Scenario 6:
No changes.

Scenario 7:
Player can chose between two different start locations for Olurf.
Orcs are fleeing if their numbers went low to shorten the boring end-phase.
Renamed some of the locations.

Scenario 8:
Story only.
Chapter One ends after this scenario.
Multiplayers have to continue with the separate "LoW Chapter two" campaign.

Scenario 9:
This scenario is the first of the second Chapter.
The campaign can be started in multiplayer mode from here

Scenario 10:

Scenario 11:

Scenario 12:

Scenario 13:

Scenario 14:

Scenario 15:

Scenario 16:

Scenario 17:

Scenario 18:

Scenario 19:

Scenario 20:

Scenario 21:

Scenario 22:

Scenario 23:

Scenario 24:

friar tuck
Posts: 74
Joined: February 18th, 2007, 7:46 pm

Re: [1.9.x/1.10.x] Legend of Wesmere

Post by friar tuck »

(BfW 1.9.4, single player, normal)

First of all, I have to say I really really like this campaign. It is one of my all time favourites, mainly for those things which are criticized so much by others :P

It's really sad to hear the former focus on shaman levelups is being toned down somewhat, because it seems to take some of the special feeling away. But I have yet to play it through in its current form; maybe everything harmonizes well in the long run. Last time I played, some units were going through some really strange mogrifications (disappearing, reappearing, duplicating, changing type and level randomly).

[edit]
Scenario 4
I don't understand Cleodils traits. Even after reading the description several times, I'm not sure I know exactly what they mean. She has normal leadership, normal heal, plus she can heal Kalenz 12HP???

Anyway, it came as a bitter surprise that she cannot cure. Maybe there should be some special message mentioning that?
Scenario 7
fabi wrote:Several changes to the campaign will make it to the 1.9.1 development version.
They are in particular:

Scenario 7:
Player can chose between two different start locations for Olurf.
Orcs are fleeing if their numbers went low to shorten the boring end-phase.
Renamed some of the locations.
It seems there are some problems in this scenario, mostly dialogue.

First, it seems El'Isomithir is not excluded by the filter in

Code: Select all

           [message]
                side=2,3
                [not]
                    id=Galtrid
                [/not]
                message= _ "Let us pursue the orc who murdered $unit.name|!"
            [/message]
so I had him saying this line himself. Dunno whether this was intentional.

Secondly, the following message was never displayed:

Code: Select all

                    [message]
                        canrecruit=yes
                        race=orc,troll
                        message= _ "Flee! They have broken us!"
                    [/message]
so the victory event is coming as something of a surprise. On the terminal, I'm getting a lot of messages like this:

Code: Select all

20110206 12:43:36 warning ai/ca/testing_ai_default: Leader not found
20110206 12:43:36 warning ai/ca/testing_ai_default: Leader not found
20110206 12:43:36 warning engine: cannot show message
Dunno whether this is related...

Furthermore, I found this event really disappointing and unnatural. It occurred in a situation when I had most enemies worn down to low HP and dawn was coming. It's a pity to let go of all the EP, and also hardly conceivable how they could flee at all in bad health and completely cornered by my elves.

I couldn't choose a start location for Olurf.

All in all, I found this scenario downturning and depressing somewhat. This might be mostly a balancing issue. Main reasons:
  • It ended in turn 11/30, so the whole Olurf episode went to waste. Probably his appearance was triggered by the victory event.
  • The AI elves were doing surprisingly well sweeping the southern forest. Not much do do for me down there. Also not much effort protecting Galtrid.
  • I didn't see any effect of my AI commands. El'Isomithir didn't move where I asked him to, and he also didn't protect Galtrid. Instead he suicided, AI ally style, very early in the scenario. Maybe this was caused by the fact that I instructed him to be defensive, but this would be rather contraproductive, wouldn't it? I think this should be mentioned somewhere.
  • There doesn't seem anything to be gained by doing well in this scenario. I have to confess I overlooked the starting message about no carryover, so perhaps the biggest disappointment was that I didn't get a huge bonus for finishing so early.

    Exp harvesting is hindered by the orcs fleeing.

    I'll replay the scenario with more focus on leveling specific units, but it seems unnatural to reduce my own forces just to make the battle last a little longer. At least there should be some reward for not completely wasting the treasury money.

    If the scenario is meant as a survival, where Olurf comes as a real relief, I think it should be harder, even on normal. I had much more problems in the previous scenarios.
[edit]
Scenario 9
Two possible issues here:
  • I don't know what the intention of leaving units behind currently is, but the logic encoded here

    Code: Select all

            [filter]
                side={SIDE}
                [not]
                    id=Kalenz
                [/not]
                [not]
                    id=Anduilas
                [/not]
                [not]
                    #wmllint: recognize Landulias
                    id=Landulias
                [/not]
                [not]
                    id=Landar
                [/not]
                [not]
                    id=Cleodil
                [/not]
                [and]
                    type=Elvish Marshal,Elvish Champion,Elvish Avenger,Elvish Sharpshooter
                    [or]
                        {FILTER_LOYALS}
                    [/or]
                [/and]
            [/filter]
    
    seems to mean that every loyal unit is always left behind, unless its name is explicitly mentioned. And that's exactly what happened: All level3s plus all loyals are missing, apart from ex-shamans and those in the list. If this is intended, fine, but I seem to remember loyals should stay with Kalenz.
  • The variable $left_behind still seems to contain only one name, although a lot of units have been left behind.

haizaar
Posts: 24
Joined: May 29th, 2010, 2:31 pm

Re: [1.9.x/1.10.x] Legend of Wesmere

Post by haizaar »

I don't understand Cleodils traits. Even after reading the description several times, I'm not sure I know exactly what they mean. She has normal leadership, normal heal, plus she can heal Kalenz 12HP???
I'm playing wesnoth 1.9.3. I can say that Cleodil does not have normal leadership. From what WML says, she should give leadership to Kalenz only(!), regardless his level!:

Code: Select all

                 [leadership]
                    affect_self=no
                    cumulative=no
#textdomain wesnoth-low
                    description=_"Elated Kalenz:..."
                    female_name="female^Elated Kalenz"
                    id="elates_kalenz"
                    name="_ Elated Kalenz"
                    value=25
                    [affect_adjacent]
                        adjacent="n,ne,se,s,sw,nw"
                        [filter]
                            id="Kalenz"
                        [/filter]
                    [/affect_adjacent]
                [/leadership]
But I have to check this in action. She heals +8 normally, but I have to check whether she heals Kalenz +12hp.
Anyway, it came as a bitter surprise that she cannot cure. Maybe there should be some special message mentioning that?
I confirm she can not cure. Can anyone provide some reasoning why?

Thanks.

haizaar
Posts: 24
Joined: May 29th, 2010, 2:31 pm

Re: [1.9.x/1.10.x] Legend of Wesmere

Post by haizaar »

OK. I've done some checks on Wesnoth 1.9.3.
Cleodil:
1. Can heal +8 everyone, but not cure
2. Always gives leadership to Kalenz (even when he is level 3)
3. Can cure Kalenz
4. Can heal Kalenz +8

This is very nice, but I do not understand what exactly "heals Kalenz +4" ability does except of curing - she still heals him to +8 only, but description says:
"If a shyde has developed a special bond to a person her healing abilities increase for him. This allows Cleodil to give Kalenz extra points of healing at the beginning of our turn."
From description I would understand that she would heal Kalenz +12.

fabi, can you please clarify what is intended behavior of Cleodil regarding Kalenz?

Thanks!

fabi
Developer
Posts: 1223
Joined: March 21st, 2004, 2:42 pm
Location: Germany

Re: [1.9.x/1.10.x] Legend of Wesmere

Post by fabi »

friar tuck wrote:(BfW 1.9.4, single player, normal)

First of all, I have to say I really really like this campaign. It is one of my all time favourites, mainly for those things which are criticized so much by others :P

It's really sad to hear the former focus on shaman levelups is being toned down somewhat, because it seems to take some of the special feeling away. But I have yet to play it through in its current form; maybe everything harmonizes well in the long run. Last time I played, some units were going through some really strange mogrifications (disappearing, reappearing, duplicating, changing type and level randomly).

[edit]
Scenario 4
I don't understand Cleodils traits. Even after reading the description several times, I'm not sure I know exactly what they mean. She has normal leadership, normal heal, plus she can heal Kalenz 12HP???

Anyway, it came as a bitter surprise that she cannot cure. Maybe there should be some special message mentioning that?
Scenario 7
fabi wrote:Several changes to the campaign will make it to the 1.9.1 development version.
They are in particular:

Scenario 7:
Player can chose between two different start locations for Olurf.
Orcs are fleeing if their numbers went low to shorten the boring end-phase.
Renamed some of the locations.
It seems there are some problems in this scenario, mostly dialogue.

First, it seems El'Isomithir is not excluded by the filter in

Code: Select all

           [message]
                side=2,3
                [not]
                    id=Galtrid
                [/not]
                message= _ "Let us pursue the orc who murdered $unit.name|!"
            [/message]
so I had him saying this line himself. Dunno whether this was intentional.

Secondly, the following message was never displayed:

Code: Select all

                    [message]
                        canrecruit=yes
                        race=orc,troll
                        message= _ "Flee! They have broken us!"
                    [/message]
so the victory event is coming as something of a surprise. On the terminal, I'm getting a lot of messages like this:

Code: Select all

20110206 12:43:36 warning ai/ca/testing_ai_default: Leader not found
20110206 12:43:36 warning ai/ca/testing_ai_default: Leader not found
20110206 12:43:36 warning engine: cannot show message
Dunno whether this is related...

Furthermore, I found this event really disappointing and unnatural. It occurred in a situation when I had most enemies worn down to low HP and dawn was coming. It's a pity to let go of all the EP, and also hardly conceivable how they could flee at all in bad health and completely cornered by my elves.

I couldn't choose a start location for Olurf.

All in all, I found this scenario downturning and depressing somewhat. This might be mostly a balancing issue. Main reasons:
  • It ended in turn 11/30, so the whole Olurf episode went to waste. Probably his appearance was triggered by the victory event.
  • The AI elves were doing surprisingly well sweeping the southern forest. Not much do do for me down there. Also not much effort protecting Galtrid.
  • I didn't see any effect of my AI commands. El'Isomithir didn't move where I asked him to, and he also didn't protect Galtrid. Instead he suicided, AI ally style, very early in the scenario. Maybe this was caused by the fact that I instructed him to be defensive, but this would be rather contraproductive, wouldn't it? I think this should be mentioned somewhere.
  • There doesn't seem anything to be gained by doing well in this scenario. I have to confess I overlooked the starting message about no carryover, so perhaps the biggest disappointment was that I didn't get a huge bonus for finishing so early.

    Exp harvesting is hindered by the orcs fleeing.

    I'll replay the scenario with more focus on leveling specific units, but it seems unnatural to reduce my own forces just to make the battle last a little longer. At least there should be some reward for not completely wasting the treasury money.

    If the scenario is meant as a survival, where Olurf comes as a real relief, I think it should be harder, even on normal. I had much more problems in the previous scenarios.
[edit]
Scenario 9
Two possible issues here:
  • I don't know what the intention of leaving units behind currently is, but the logic encoded here

    Code: Select all

            [filter]
                side={SIDE}
                [not]
                    id=Kalenz
                [/not]
                [not]
                    id=Anduilas
                [/not]
                [not]
                    #wmllint: recognize Landulias
                    id=Landulias
                [/not]
                [not]
                    id=Landar
                [/not]
                [not]
                    id=Cleodil
                [/not]
                [and]
                    type=Elvish Marshal,Elvish Champion,Elvish Avenger,Elvish Sharpshooter
                    [or]
                        {FILTER_LOYALS}
                    [/or]
                [/and]
            [/filter]
    
    seems to mean that every loyal unit is always left behind, unless its name is explicitly mentioned. And that's exactly what happened: All level3s plus all loyals are missing, apart from ex-shamans and those in the list. If this is intended, fine, but I seem to remember loyals should stay with Kalenz.
  • The variable $left_behind still seems to contain only one name, although a lot of units have been left behind.
I have fixed all of the mentioned issues.
Thank you for the report.

haizaar
Posts: 24
Joined: May 29th, 2010, 2:31 pm

Re: [1.9.x/1.10.x] Legend of Wesmere

Post by haizaar »

fabi, can you please answer my question above regarding Cleodil skills?

Thanks.

fabi
Developer
Posts: 1223
Joined: March 21st, 2004, 2:42 pm
Location: Germany

Re: [1.9.x/1.10.x] Legend of Wesmere

Post by fabi »

haizaar wrote:OK. I've done some checks on Wesnoth 1.9.3.
Cleodil:
1. Can heal +8 everyone, but not cure
2. Always gives leadership to Kalenz (even when he is level 3)
3. Can cure Kalenz
4. Can heal Kalenz +8

This is very nice, but I do not understand what exactly "heals Kalenz +4" ability does except of curing - she still heals him to +8 only, but description says:
"If a shyde has developed a special bond to a person her healing abilities increase for him. This allows Cleodil to give Kalenz extra points of healing at the beginning of our turn."
From description I would understand that she would heal Kalenz +12.

fabi, can you please clarify what is intended behavior of Cleodil regarding Kalenz?

Thanks!
It was planned that Cleodil would heal the normal 8 to a unit and extra 4 to Kalenz.
But I guess we come to that limit that denies more than 8hp healed per character.
If Cleodil is going to heal another unit with 8 hp she will still give 4 to Kalenz.
Curing was meant to be applied to Kalenz and another unit that is around.
I will see if I can code that somehow better.

haizaar
Posts: 24
Joined: May 29th, 2010, 2:31 pm

Re: [1.9.x/1.10.x] Legend of Wesmere

Post by haizaar »

Hi, fabi!
Thanks for the clarification. I've managed to implement your idea and here is the code:
1. Cleodil can cure and heal +8 everyone
2. Cleodil can cure and heal Kalenz +12
3. Cleodil can give leadership to Kalenz (I prefered to call it "Inspire Kalenz" instead of "Elated Kalenz", but its just my opinion)
4. Fixed syntax errors in descriptions

I hope you'll find it usefull.

Code: Select all

            [abilities]
                [leadership]
                    affect_self=no
                    cumulative=no
#textdomain wesnoth-low
                    description=_"Inspire Kalenz:
If a shyde has developed a special bond to a person her near presence can make that person to act 25% better in battle."
                    female_name=_"female^Inspire Kalenz"
                    id="inspires_kalenz"
                    name=_"Inspire Kalenz"
                    value=25
                    [affect_adjacent]
                        adjacent="n,ne,se,s,sw,nw"
                        [filter]
                            id="Kalenz"
                        [/filter]
                    [/affect_adjacent]
                [/leadership]
                [heals]
                    affect_self=no
                    description=_"Heals Kalenz +12:
If a shyde has developed a special bond to a person her healing abilities increase for him.  This allows Cleodil to give Kalenz extra points of healing at the beginning of our turn."
                    female_name=_"female^heals Kalenz +12"
                    id="heals_kalenz"
                    name=_"heals Kalenz +12"
                    poison="slowed"
                    value=12
                    [affect_adjacent]
                        adjacent="n,ne,se,s,sw,nw"
                        [filter]
                            id="Kalenz"
                        [/filter]
                    [/affect_adjacent]
                [/heals]
                [heals]
                    affect_allies=yes
                    affect_self=no
#textdomain wesnoth
                    description=_"Cures:
A curer can cure a unit of poison, although that unit will receive no additional healing on the turn it is cured of the poison."
                    female_name=_"female^cures"
                    id="curing"
                    name=_"cures"
                    poison="cured"
                    [affect_adjacent]
                        adjacent="n,ne,se,s,sw,nw"
                    [/affect_adjacent]
                [/heals]
                [heals]
                    affect_allies=yes
                    affect_self=no
#textdomain wesnoth
                    description=_"Heals +8:
This unit combines herbal remedies with magic to heal units more quickly than is normally possible on the battlefield.

A unit cared for by this healer may heal up to 8 HP per turn, or stop poison from taking effect for that turn.
A poisoned unit cannot be cured of its poison by a healer, and must seek the care of a village or a unit that can cure."
                    female_name=_"female^heals +8"
                    id="healing"
                    name=_"heals +8"
                    poison="slowed"
                    value=8
                    [affect_adjacent]
                        adjacent="n,ne,se,s,sw,nw"
                    [/affect_adjacent]
                [/heals]
            [/abilities]

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Pewskeepski
Posts: 353
Joined: November 17th, 2010, 6:24 pm
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Re: [1.9.x/1.10.x] Legend of Wesmere

Post by Pewskeepski »

I noticed that this campaign has a difficulty labeled "Hard," but no other mainline campaigns have that. They all use "Challenging" and "Difficult." Is this something that should be changed or is it another difficulty that is between those two?

fabi
Developer
Posts: 1223
Joined: March 21st, 2004, 2:42 pm
Location: Germany

Re: [1.9.x/1.10.x] Legend of Wesmere

Post by fabi »

Pewskeepski wrote:I noticed that this campaign has a difficulty labeled "Hard," but no other mainline campaigns have that. They all use "Challenging" and "Difficult." Is this something that should be changed or is it another difficulty that is between those two?
Right, I will correct it.

varlokkur
Posts: 5
Joined: May 13th, 2011, 10:45 pm

Re: [1.9.x/1.10.x] Legend of Wesmere

Post by varlokkur »

In the notes above, you say that by turn 3, Kaelenz can recruit scouts -- I'm not seeing that option in 1.9.6.

fabi
Developer
Posts: 1223
Joined: March 21st, 2004, 2:42 pm
Location: Germany

Re: [1.9.x/1.10.x] Legend of Wesmere

Post by fabi »

varlokkur wrote:In the notes above, you say that by turn 3, Kaelenz can recruit scouts -- I'm not seeing that option in 1.9.6.
Right, the list at the beginning of the thread is out of date. I will update it soon.

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Lord-Knightmare
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Re: [1.9.x/1.10.x] Legend of Wesmere

Post by Lord-Knightmare »

I propose you all to take a look at the scenarios Costly Revenge and Northern Battle. The scenarios are the 'most bugged' in the game.
I posted the problem in this thread, but received no reply, so I posted it here.

glandis
Posts: 7
Joined: August 24th, 2011, 7:04 pm

Re: [1.9.x/1.10.x] Legend of Wesmere

Post by glandis »

I'm re-running through this campaign on 1.9.12 - the changes are interesting and manageable so far. In "Ka'alian Under Attack", though, I can still only recruit Fighters/Archers, and I ran into a LUA error about 'urudin' not found. I have the stderr bug info, but this doesn't seem the right place to post that - or is it? Reading the various stickies hasn't help me find the right place to post . . .

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