Descent into Darkness

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Typhus
Posts: 9
Joined: July 20th, 2005, 9:54 pm
Location: Hangar 18

Post by Typhus »

Pretty good campaign, although it was a bit too easy. I was able to beat it (the Forever and Ever scenario is the last right? Since it just keeps repeating with stronger enemies...) with mainly Ghosts and their advancements. One thing I did notice though is that in the Forever and Ever, Amen scenario all of the leaders had 36/36 hp, except when I faced a Dwarf who had 36/72 (I think...).
Hand of fate is moving and the finger points to you
He knocks you to your feet and so what are you gonna do?

neexie
Posts: 3
Joined: December 7th, 2006, 5:22 pm

Post by neexie »

Hello. Great campaign!

Anyway, I'm stuck at "Alone at Last'... After I kill Darken Volk, the book does not appear so even after killing everyone, I can't finish the scenario. Do I need to download a new version of the campaign?

Thanks.

nance
Posts: 11
Joined: November 13th, 2006, 5:17 pm

Post by nance »

hmmz... downloaded the new version, played the previous scenario but still no dark dude :(
do i need to play ther whole campaign again?

esci
Posts: 42
Joined: September 4th, 2006, 12:07 am

Post by esci »

I admit to being quite perplexed about the errors people seem to be having with Alone at Last, particularly since everyone seems to be having different problems. It seems to be working fine on my computer.

Here's what's supposed to be happening: Darken Volk appears at the beginning of the scenario along with the main character. Once he establishes his camp and play begins, he should have a little book icon next to him (kind of like the hero icon). If he doesn't, there's a [role] probably not being properly set. This would also explain why he doesn't drop the book later on. Maybe it's a Wesnoth version issue? Anyone know if the behavior of the [role] tag has changed recently? I've been playing on version 1.1.12. If you've got an older version, you might try upgrading.

If Darken Volk doesn't appear at all, there are other problems. Did he appear in the previous scenarios? (He should be in both A Small Favor scenarios). I thought fixed the disappearing necromancer problem between A Small Favor 2 and Alone at Last. If he's still vanishing there, would you attach a saved game from both scenarios to a post (make sure you set Binary Save = no under the advanced options first)?

Typhus: thanks for pointing out the hitpoint problem in the last scenario. I've fixed it in my version, which I'll upload once I get a few other problems fixed.

Finally, just a note: it is actually possible to "beat" the scenario Forever and Ever, Amen, in the sense that it will send you to the game credits. I'm going to leave it at that for now.
Original creator of the campaign Descent Into Darkness
Currently working on Cities of the Frontier

neexie
Posts: 3
Joined: December 7th, 2006, 5:22 pm

Post by neexie »

For me, he does appear and with the Book icon as well. But when he dies, there's no book....

nance
Posts: 11
Joined: November 13th, 2006, 5:17 pm

Post by nance »

esci wrote: Here's what's supposed to be happening: Darken Volk appears at the beginning of the scenario along with the main character. Once he establishes his camp and play begins, he should have a little book icon next to him (kind of like the hero icon). If he doesn't, there's a [role] probably not being properly set. This would also explain why he doesn't drop the book later on. Maybe it's a Wesnoth version issue? Anyone know if the behavior of the [role] tag has changed recently? I've been playing on version 1.1.12. If you've got an older version, you might try upgrading.
I don't see him at the beginning of the scenario.
I am not quite sure what version I am using, but I think it's a new one, I would have to check it when I'm home.
esci wrote:If Darken Volk doesn't appear at all, there are other problems. Did he appear in the previous scenarios? (He should be in both A Small Favor scenarios). I thought fixed the disappearing necromancer problem between A Small Favor 2 and Alone at Last. If he's still vanishing there, would you attach a saved game from both scenarios to a post (make sure you set Binary Save = no under the advanced options first)?


I think he did. but I'm not quite sure, have to check that too.
Where can I find my saved games as binary?

BTW: i think this is a _great_ scenario, so please keep up the good work! :)

nance
Posts: 11
Joined: November 13th, 2006, 5:17 pm

Post by nance »

darken volk shows up in the previous scenarios.
The version I am using is 1.1.11
I will update my version and try again.
I will let you know what happened.

nance
Posts: 11
Joined: November 13th, 2006, 5:17 pm

Post by nance »

dowloaded the new version, but when I open an older save game and I save it, it still says 1.1.11 in the save game...
going to play the complete scenario again.

:(

maudlin27
Posts: 10
Joined: January 4th, 2007, 9:54 am

Post by maudlin27 »

Just finished playing through the campaign, and overall enjoyed it quite alot. A few notes - quite a few typos etc., especially with the initial part of the story.
Didn't have any problem obtaining the book (using wesnoth v1.2)
However with some of the scenarios (Back to Hal'al and Alone at last), nothing happened when I killed the enemy leaders - after killing the 'hero's' sister, all the townsfolk, the river fort guards, and the invading orcs, the storyline carried on as normal, assuming I was running from the townsfolk (that I'd defeated), while the hero's sister appeared again in Alone at last. Also with the outside mission to break into the manor, despite killing all the guards on the whole map, and taking over all the villages, the story also failed to take that into account, with the doors apparently not being able to hold back the townsfolk for very long when actually in the manor searching for the book.
Again, with alone at last, after killing all the leaders, all other enemies, and taking over all villages, once I took my hero back to the keep he fled away to prevent being followed by the enemies that had just been wiped out.
I did this on normal difficulty, and overall found the difficulty level appropriate. However I'm guessing that I wasn't meant to be able to kill the leaders that I did on the previously mentioned missions. With the return to Hal'al it was quite tough at first to do, but got easier as I wore down their troops - I had a decent number of wraiths and shadows, I initially focused on assassinating Drogon (sp?) with my nightstalks and a couple of wraiths, before turning on the handful of guards with him and wiping them out quickly. I then sent two wraiths to deal with the orcs (the orcs would be happy to fight me in water so it was easy for my wraiths to hold them off and even advance a bit). Meanwhile I moved my hero to the west, and had him move into the small island in the river. This is a great defensive position, as two wraiths covering the water sections can hold out against almost all enemies - they can only be attacked by 1 unit at a time, and typically that unit is using a melee attack, and will be fighting in water, meaning its easy for the wraith to stay at full health+heal.
I then wiped out the orcs with my remaining forces, and sent them down in the water as well, so that if the villagers were to attack me they'd have to enter the water as well. I gradually wore them down, then at night attacked with all my units, withdrew a bit by day, then advanced at night, until they were completely surrounded+wiped out a couple of turns later along with their leader.

For the alone at last scenario it was much tougher, I started off just recalling 2 of my elite units, and creating a hoarde of walking corpses to hold of the necromancer and his troops, while inflicting some casualties. After he started being beaten back by the Paladin's forces I recalled the remaining elite units that I could afford, and charged him, taking him (and his remaining units) out fairly speedily. Meanwhile the rest of my troops attacked the Hal'al forces (who fortunately had been delayed by one of the necromancers skeletons, meaning I only had 6 trained units to deal with, as opposed to 12), and after lots of very bad luck trying to hit their leader, managed to take her out, and her troops shortly after. I then sent all my forces south, while the paladin moved up to the necromancers keep. I (just) managed to take him out without suffering any horrible casualties (combination of spectres ranged attack and a nightgaunt for the killing blows), and then the heavy infantry followed shortly after (they'd been delayed by the remnants of my walking corpses).

Assuming this isn't meant to be possible, for the back to Hal'al mission the income of the Hal'al townsfolk/the hero's sister could be increased, and an extra castle tile provided? As for the alone at last scenario, perhaps increasing the paladins income (so he soon overwhelms you if you try and fight his forces), while decreasing his starting gold a bit (so he doesnt then take out the necromancer in an instant) might help. If he could recruit some white mages and/or paladins as well it might help.
An alternative could just be to have a bonus for taking out the leaders on the respective maps, and add a few comments upon doing this to make the story tie up (e.g. upon defeating his sister in return to Hal'al he could say he'll spare her life, and had better run before the townsfolk find out what he's done, while with the alone at last mission he could mention how the rest of his sisters forces would soon be there+he'd better run, and something similar with the paladins forces upon killing their leader).

A few bugs I noticed - with the mission where you're searching the manor for the book, the necromancers forces didn't move 3 of the times I did it. Once when I loaded it however they suddenly sprang into live and started attacking the enemies. Fortunately this wasn't a problem for me (when they didn't move), as I had a large elite force from the previous assignment and was happy to keep all the experience for myself (although I did struggle even then to overpower all the guards, despite having managed to recall every single unit I had on the previous assignment as a result of taking out the leader+all guards allowing me to use his keep once my gold had picked up again).

Also when I tried loading the auto-save of this mission wesnoth crashed. Loading a save on the first turn didn't cause this problem though.

The ending of the campaign was also fairly dissapointing. After fighting epic battles against the orcs+wiping out most of their leaders, taking on the townsfolk and an orc invasion simultaneously, and fighting three different enemy leaders at the same time towards the end, to have the campaign ending with 'your forces being beaten back by the orcs', and then having the foolish hero mission (who can be killed easily in 5 turns) was disapointing. Perhaps instead the orc threat could be wiped out by your forces, and you then return to your cave lair where a foolish hero (with MUCH more starting gold, income, and better troops) attacks you?

I found the campaign very fun though, and had quite a few challenges trying to get through it on medium.

unsung
Posts: 708
Joined: May 15th, 2005, 5:54 pm
Location: Raging somewhere..

Post by unsung »

Great work. I actually agree with why the character became a necromancer, and given that I have a duty to hate or at least be contrary to all magic users not on my side, and not care for those not fixing, enchanting, or healing stuff, that says a lot about the quality of the story.
I noticed some oddities with the necro-guy who helps you leveling up, but I can't rember what exactly- I'll get back to you a little later.

(oh, and you may want to make it so the goblin leader in the valley scenario doesn't move around so much- I was able to catch and kill him rather easily.)
Oh no look out its a ray gun.
You should move to avoid the rays
the rays are coming out of the gun
if you are hit by the rays
you will be shot by the rays
the rays are fast so you should be fast to
can you win against the fast rays from the gun?

Ragwortshire
Posts: 36
Joined: May 9th, 2006, 8:31 pm
Location: Dublin, Ireland

Post by Ragwortshire »

I think I may have found the problem with "Alone at Last" :).

At the start of the mission, Darken Volk gets the "book" icon, but not neccessarily the book_carrier role. If you have any necromancers or sorcerers in your recall list, the role can actually go to one of them!

I looked at the savefile and noticed that the book carrier was actually a Dark Sorcerer. So I recalled him, fed him to the lions, and the book appeared. I was able to pick it up too :D.

Not sure how to fix this - perhaps filter by description instead of type?

EDIT: Oops, I see (S)elfish Weirdo already solved this one. Sorry.
Last edited by Ragwortshire on January 5th, 2007, 11:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
There midnight's all a-glimmer, and noon a purple glow. (The Lake Isle of Inisfree - W.B. Yeats)

Blarumyrran
Art Contributor
Posts: 1700
Joined: December 7th, 2006, 8:08 pm

Post by Blarumyrran »

i took medium too.

its really great campaign, and i dont see why it shouldnt go mainline.

except that
* hundreds of spelling errors
* some bugs
* main character's sprite looks funny, necromancer with an afro :D
* some balancing
but when these get fixed, it would be the best campaign i have ever played. im not even half way through it (im stuck in the "escape over the ice to the orcs" level, because of my own skilllessness, i guess.)

the level design (especially the "explore the cave and kill outlaws and dwarfs" level, where you could sneak up upon the dwarf king through the chasm, but the level was a bit too easy, give dwarves more villages. otherwise the cave level would be much easier than the 2 levels between which it is) was very fun, its a pity HttT has got so boring levels compared to this.

EDIT: yup, i agree now that the campaign is overly ghost-friendly. the only way to beat "Beginning of Revenge" i found is to hire only ghosts & upg and assassinate enemy bosses. because otherwise the enemy has just SO many villages that he'll keep recruiting on and on and spam your little wooden bridge so that doing the level is impossible within just 36 turns(i suggest increasing time limit to 45 turns).

Ragwortshire
Posts: 36
Joined: May 9th, 2006, 8:31 pm
Location: Dublin, Ireland

Post by Ragwortshire »

Having finished off the rest of the campaign, here are my thoughts. First, a couple of issues I found very annoying:

- Malin Keshar's sprite as a Dark Mage has the wrong animation for his ranged attack. Specifically, he turns into a necromancer to attack and then switches back. This was really disconcerting; I would have far preferred no animation at all.
- The Outlaw's speech doesn't play at the start of the last scenario. (There's an error in the story file.)
Malin Keshar wrote:AAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaiiiiiiiiiggggggggghhhhhh!!!!!!!
... I think you can do better than that.

Also of course the issue I mentioned above - the bug in Alone At Last essentially makes that scenario unplayable, so it's a must-fix.

That said, I found the campaign thoroughly enjoyable. The scenarios were varied and interesting, and the storyline was for the most part very well thought out. Certainly better than some mainline campaigns for variety :).

I agree with maudlin27 on the difficulty and ending. Playing on medium, I found the difficulty very appropriate initially - the "Orc War" scenario was especially challenging and hence fun ;). However, it seemed to taper off a bit towards the end - to the point where I finished "Descent into Darkness" with 42 turns to spare. Remember, you can more or less assume the player has a sizeable army of level 3 units by this stage, which will easily cream most average-sized enemy armies.

The ending itself I also found rather disappointing - more or less as maudlin27 said. If I've spent the campaign building up a powerful army of frightening Undead, I want a chance to cause some chaos with it before my inevitable demise! In that respect, having a "petering out" ending really doesn't work without some kind of climactic battle beforehand.

To that end, I would recommend inserting an extra scenario between 9 and 10, in which you actually play out the last battle with the orcs. Since you don't want the player to "win" the battle, there's a lot of scope for making the enemies really tough, so much so that they'll pretty much destroy whatever the player has amassed up to that point.

Some additional minor things I thought could be improved:

- I found the dialogue to be rather weak in two places. Firstly, when Malin confronts Drogan, he seems rather quick to accept that his countrymen are against him. Neither he nor Drogan suggests, for example, that Malin should go away and let the humans fight the orcs (which would seem a logical compromise). Nor does Malin seem particularly distressed when Dela turns on him. All in all, it seems to lack tension and emotion in a big way.
- Darken's response when the humans reject Malin, after having said that he expects them to greet him as a hero for defeating the orcs, is "Excellent"! Really! Just what you were hoping all along , hey? He could express some disbelief or at least anger at the townsfolk for their prejudice.
- There's definitely an issue with enemies that aren't meant to be beaten. Put simply, many of them are ill-defended and ill-equipped to deal with the Undead in any case. Players tend to be very resourceful in doing things you didn't think possible; take a look at "The Ford of Abez" in HttT to see the extreme lengths you have to go to (and bear in mind that they had to be strengthened not so long ago when some people found a way to get through six royal guards who respawned if killed). Personally, I found it easier to just slaughter the humans in "A Small Favor" than try to sneak in - which was a shame, because sneaking in looked like a lot of fun. The enemies in "Alone at Last" didn't seem particularly secure either.

Alternatively, you could add events and modify the dialogue for the deaths of some of those enemies. I think "Alone at Last" in particular would be great with an emotionally charged death for Dela (if she dies), but making the Paladin really unbeatable (give him some IM's with MoL's for backup, for instance).
- Scenarios without turn limits: I know they may seem unnecessary, but there's definitely some gold-farming opportunities around. "Return to Hal'al" and "Alone at Last" in particular are just asking for it. It's disconcerting not to have them as well; if there's no turn limit I'd usually expect the scenario to be just a cut scene or something. No harm in including them ;).
- "Malin and Darken continue to attack other goblin/orc/whatever settlements" - this happened at least three times during the campaign. Once might be okay, but after that I found it unsatisfying as a story. I can't see any easy way to fully solve this without severely messing around with the plot, but still, it's there.

If you solved those issues, and of course cleared up the typing a bit as Syntax_Error said, I'd see no reason for it not to go in mainline. It's got some great ideas and solid, interesting scripting. If everything I download from the campaign server is this good, I'll be very happy.

P.S. Syntax_Error, I did actually beat "Beginning of the Revenge" using units other than ghosts - though they are definitely very useful in virtually every mission in the campaign. Very easy to level too :D.
There midnight's all a-glimmer, and noon a purple glow. (The Lake Isle of Inisfree - W.B. Yeats)

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Xandria
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Post by Xandria »

I wonder - with how much cash am I supposed to start The Orc War (the scenario with three leaders, of whom one is a Slurbow) ? I start with some 250, which does not seem to be enough...
The fight against human stupidity is endless, but we must never give it up.
- Jan Werich

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Konrad II
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Joined: December 21st, 2004, 1:03 am

Post by Konrad II »

Xandria wrote:I wonder - with how much cash am I supposed to start The Orc War (the scenario with three leaders, of whom one is a Slurbow) ? I start with some 250, which does not seem to be enough...

I'm having some problems with that one too... I got 200 gold at start, but the amount of northerners that come over to slaughter me is insane! Even though I can probably survive i dont know if its possible for me to end within turn limit.

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