Dunefolk Rework - Unit Descriptions

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Dunefolk Rework - Unit Descriptions

Post by ghype » May 27th, 2019, 7:36 pm

As we know have an idea of what the new units are to be called, we now reach the phase to think about their unit descriptions.
Here we provide the final names of the units and marked which of them need descriptions. We also want to investigate, wether some descriptions of the base unit still fid, as some unit concept might have changed in the balancing phase.






Final Candidates:



Dune Herbalist, Dune Apothecary, Dune Luminary
Dune Herbalist, Dune Alchemist

Dune Soldier, Dune Captain, Dune Emir

Dune Skirmisher, Dune Strider, Dune Harrier

Naga Stabber, Naga Slasher, Naga Executioner
Naga Stabber, Naga Ringcaster, Naga Bladewind




We spent some time thinking and brainstorming about possible ideas for these unit, so we don't have to start from scratch.
Some are more sophisticated, some are just basic thoughts. The unit descriptions will be updated here so we can keep track of the progress.
I will provide also the default description of the Dune Herbalist Lv, Dune Apothecary Lv2 and Dune Soldier Lv1 so we have a better undestanding of the general concept for the unit line.



Descriptions:



Dune Herbalist Lv1 - DEFAULT
"Herbalists are learned individuals who have given up their urban life in order to assist the Dunefolk armies in their travels. Their motivations are many; some look to it as an adventure or as a steady source of pay, while others feel it to be a duty to their society. Regardless, Herbalists are highly respected by all. They are trained with advanced medical techniques and possess a potent clutch of medicines and herbs, which allows them to quickly heal even the most gravely wounded allies."



Dune Apothecary Lv2 - DEFAULT
"Some men excel at medicine the way others do at strength of arms, and the Apothecaries are those whose knowledge is without peer outside of the Dunefolk. Their remedies can not only heal wounds but remove infection and poison as well, often to the disbelief of the injured. Hardened by years of travels, many are able to treat themselves."



Dune Luminary Lv3 - Concept By Krogen
"Dune Luminary is the highest rank a herbalist can achieve within their profession. They are thought to know everything about herbs and have been said to perform miracles, curing diseases thought to be uncurable. If they decide to help during war, their knowledge and vast assortment of herbs is an invaluable help"



Dune Alchemist Lv2 - Concept By Krogen
"Dune poisoners have abandoned the study of healing herbs and instead chose to focus on poisons. Their study has led them to creating potent concoctions which they use to dispose of their enemies. They are viewed warily by other Dunefolk, because their poisons are often used in assasinations."



Dune Soldier Lv1 - DEFAULT
"The Soldier forms the backbone of any Dunefolk foot advance. Many come from noble or military families, and have spent most of their lives training their craft. Given their intense focus on swordplay, they are often sent against fortified enemy positions to create a breach for the remaining troops to exploit. The sight of Soldiers on the march, shields high, has caused many a defender to worry about the strength of their walls."



Dune Captain Lv2 - Idea By LordLewis
"The captain is the centre of any Dunefolk platoon ... "



Dune Emir Lv3 - Concept By The_Gnat
"The Dune Emir is the leader of Dunefolk armies. They have proven their worth in many battles and can lead nearby units. While they are somewhat less skilled than their peers in combat, their tactical abilities can shift the tide of battles and lead their troops to victory."



Dune Skirmisher Lv1 - Description By Hejnewar
"Dune Skirmishers are the ones who managed to achieve visibly better results at dodging, running and scouting during their training process. They learn how to swiftly avoid enemies and strike faster than them, however their true training begins on the battlefield with real enemies trying to kill them."



Dune Strider Lv2 - Description By Hejnewar
"Dune Striders are fighters that were already proven in battle. They keep cool even in the most dire situations and know how to evaluate their chances of success. Often surrounded by enemies, in situations that could be considered suicide, but they manage to come back with shield. Some might say that luck is why they manage feats like that, but how could anyone escape while surrounded by 5 enemy units with only luck?"



Dune Harrier Lv3 - Description By Hejnewar
"Dune Harriers move gently throughout sands of deserts and strike mercilessly.They throw bolas when danger of frontal engagement is too high and impaling on spears when they want to finish weaken enemies. For those who look from afar they might seem unstoppable like sandstorm while breaking thru frontlines and capturing villages. Enemies that survived engagement with them often say than it is easier to catch wind within your hand than to catch them on battlefield."



Nagas - Keywords/Ideas By gyhpe
The dune Nagas opposed to the Northerner Nagas could function as trusted mercenaries which help the Dunefolk secure trading routes for ship and support in naval battles and anything else that could relate to naval warfare or water generally. The Dunefolk, possibly known for being wealthy, surely can afford the needs of such sell-sword Nagas.

Lv1 Stabber - simple sell-sword
Lv2 Slasher - renown mercenary
Lv3 Executioner - feared warrior

As to the Ringcaster and Bladewind, they could be renegade sell swords who still work on paid duties but settled down in the more tribe-ish parts of the DF lands and do more odd jobs for local villagers (renegade opposed to the life of sell-swords).



Soo ... Just a reminder, these are just ideas. Some are fully fetched and (almost) good to go such as the Skirmisher descriptions, others are less. This is just to give you a starting point. You don't have to agree with these concepts, but if you do then we just laid a good foundation.

However, while working on the descriptions, we encountered some inconsistencies which were created by the new descriptions or by the concept changes in the balance phase.



Problems/Notes:


  • Current Apothecary says "... Hardened by years of travels, many are able to treat themselves." This sentence could be now applied in a way on the Lv1 Herbalist since they too can heal themselves.

  • Swordsman Lv2 says "Armed with their sword and shield, ..." and " ... adding a powerful shield bash to knock back unsuspecting enemies ..." which none of them are true anymore due to the concept changes of this unit line in balance and art. Here is a proposed Description by Krogen for the Swordsman:
    • "Bladesmen are veterans of many battles and they form the shocktroops of dunefolk armies. They are trained in assaulting fortifications and sent to assist attacks on strategic targets, where their skill with swords can be put to good use."
  • Bladesman Lv3 says " ... Blademasters are the leaders among the Dunefolk's ranks. " With the new Dune Captain / Dune Emir, this line could be a bit confusing. Just a bit.
  • Rider Lv1 could have a not on how and why Dunefolk have such excellent riders and horse breeders, having a great number of mounted fighter with different roles to choose from
  • Raider Lv2 description sounds very ... degrading saying this "Those horsemen who are not skilled enough to join the ranks of the Sunderers or quick enough with a bow for the Swiftriders ... " As if it's the worst part of the Dunefolk army. The new concept with the melee fire and chaotic alignment allows the unit to serve a greater purpose. What if, instead of being just a simple raiding unit with few tactical purpose in warfare, it could be one that focuses on ambush enemy camps at night and setting tents and provisions on fire with their torches. The Marauder would follow that concept.
  • Sunderer Lv2 description says "Those Piercers who distinguish themselves in battle ... " There is no Dune Piercer Lv1 more as the Sunderer Lv2 advances from the Rider lv1.




As always, this project requires your feedback. We will update and post new descriptions and solutions for the incoherent ones as soon as we have something. Feel free to contribute if you have something in mind. Every little help matters.

Thanks.


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Re: Dunefolk Rework - Unit Descriptions

Post by The_Gnat » May 28th, 2019, 9:34 am

Hi ghype! That all looks great! (just posting here so I get notifications from this topic ;) )

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Re: Dunefolk Rework - Unit Descriptions

Post by josteph » May 29th, 2019, 11:15 am

@The_Gnat If you click the wrench icon at the top of the page and then "Subscribe to topic", you'll get notifications even if you don't post.
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Re: Dunefolk Rework - Unit Descriptions

Post by Tom_Of_Wesnoth » July 21st, 2019, 5:06 pm

Is it alright if I have a go at these descriptions? Don't want to step on anyone's toes.
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Re: Dunefolk Rework - Unit Descriptions

Post by ghype » July 22nd, 2019, 2:09 am

Feel free to post what ever you feel like is right. Ultimately, we are not the one to decide which are good or not. Yumi will revise every unit description.

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Re: Dunefolk Rework - Unit Descriptions

Post by Tom_Of_Wesnoth » July 22nd, 2019, 1:37 pm

I had a go at the Soldier and his advancements. I tried to keep a consistent style across all of the descriptions, with the first half being flavour text, while the second half gives some hints as to what abilities the unit has in game.

Dune Soldier

The Soldier forms the core of any Dunefolk formation. Traditionally hailing from respected families – of noble blood, or of long military service – most Soldiers are trained in the art of swordplay from a young age. This training, along with their high-quality arms and armour, gives rise to potent warriors.

Though lacking in mobility, Soldiers are respected for their prowess in storming fortifications, and for their # resistance against enemy advances. The sight of the sunlight dancing across the shields of a formation of Soldiers is beautiful to behold, yet alarming for those tasked with fighting them.

Dune Swordsman

The frontlines of battle are the anvil on which inexperienced warriors are forged into Swordsmen of considerable ability. Swordsmen, through their combination of lifelong training and frontline experience, come to view their swords not as tools, but as extensions of their body.

This familiarity with the blade is plain to see when one watches the Swordsman in combat, and sees the unerring precision with which he lands blows, against even the most fleet-footed of foes. A contingent of experienced Swordsmen represents, therefore, a potent shock force who can crack even the sternest of defences.

Dune Blademaster

For the most renown of Dunefolk swordsmen, the honorific title Blademaster is the highest of all accolades. To earn such a title is to bring great honour upon oneself and one’s line, and to be recognised among the Dunefolk as a fearsome warrior.

A Blademaster in combat is a sight to see. In an open field, the Blademaster strikes with a speed and ferocity that is unmatched among the Dunefolk soldiery; while fighting in constrained spaces, however, the Blademaster can land devastating blows with alarming accuracy.

Dune Captain

The Captain is the centre of any Dunefolk platoon. Captains choose themselves, as much as they are chosen, distinguishing themselves on the battlefield by taking initiative and inspiring their cohorts, and such leadership rarely goes unrewarded.

Captains are not so proficient with the blade as the renown swordsmen. Instead, their ability lies in their ability to give rousing speeches and to bark orders – and so, to bring out the best of those under their command. That is not to say, however, that they do not lead by example. A good Captain fights without fear even through the darkest of nights.

Dune Warmaster

A Warmaster is said to be the veteran of a thousand battles. Such statements are, of course, hyperbolic, but there is no doubt that any leader who earns the title of Warmaster has realms of experience, and has turned the tide of countless battles.
In battle, the Warmaster is a talented warrior who strikes with speed and intensity. However, his real expertise comes in his ability as a leader. A speech by a Warmaster will lift the spirits of even the most cynical, embolden even the most cautious, and enlighten even the most experienced of warriors.

Dune Spearguard

While the prestige goes to the master swordsmen of the Dunefolk, some soldiers opt to trade in their sword, and instead fulfil the vital duties of the Spearguard. Clad in fine armour and carrying long, razor-sharp spears, the Spearguard are a formidable sight.

The Spearguard are best suited to holding defensible terrain against enemy advances. The length of their spears allows them keep their enemies at bay, and to get the first blow in against any foolish enough to charge them. Those foes that do close the distance quickly find that the Spearguard are able and willing to use their shields as bludgeons.

Dune Spearmaster

Spread across the Dunefolk’s lands are the lonely towers and garrisons that provide shelter to caravans and locals from bandits are monster. A single Spearmaster is said to be as formidable a defence as any of these fortifications.

Spearmasters have perfected the art of the spear, and any foe foolish enough to challenge them will find themselves run through before they have the chance to strike. No less deadly, in the hands of a Spearmaster, is the shield – elephantine works of steel that can be shatter bone with a well-timed slam.
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Re: Dunefolk Rework - Unit Descriptions

Post by ghype » July 22nd, 2019, 8:16 pm

good job on writing so much but i am not sure if you are aware that all of the units you wrote descriptions (except Captain and Warmaster) already had default descriptions. I am not sure wether your descriptions represent improved version of the default ones and if you want them to be entirely replaced with what you wrote or not.

I think the main post explains thoroughly which unit need completely new descriptions and which need rework.

As for your description for Captain and Warmaster, they are pretty good. We will implement them and credit you accordingly in the git repo so they can be revised by Yumi together with the other ones. But i am not sure what I am supposed to do with the remaining ones?

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Re: Dunefolk Rework - Unit Descriptions

Post by Tom_Of_Wesnoth » July 22nd, 2019, 8:34 pm

I think the worry is that if all of the descriptions for a unit line are written separately, they might not quite line up stylistically. If you look at, say, portraits, it's usually one artist that does a whole faction. You can kind of see it here if you compare the Soldier and Warmaster descriptions - the Soldier is built up as a formidable fighter, while the Warmaster's combat ability is downplayed a bit. I did try to respect and incorporate elements from the original descriptions where there already was one.

Like I said, though, I don't want to step on anyone's toes. If people like my descriptions, great, but honestly I just enjoy the chance to do a bit of creative writing, and to possibly contribute to a game I've played for over a decade.
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Re: Dunefolk Rework - Unit Descriptions

Post by ghype » July 23rd, 2019, 9:40 am

I can suggest them as an alternative to the current ones if thats what you want.

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Re: Dunefolk Rework - Unit Descriptions

Post by Tom_Of_Wesnoth » July 23rd, 2019, 11:59 am

If you put them to Yumi and let him make the decision on what descriptions to go with?
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Re: Dunefolk Rework - Unit Descriptions

Post by ghype » July 23rd, 2019, 12:28 pm

Yumi will revise all the descriptions anyway, i will paste your descriptions to each unit's file so there are both descriptions. Yumi then will either decide for one of them, combine them or rewrite them entirely. Same goes for every other description written by us.

But yours are fairly well written. Some of what you wrote might really end up in mainline.

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Re: Dunefolk Rework - Unit Descriptions

Post by Tom_Of_Wesnoth » July 23rd, 2019, 2:49 pm

Thanks!

I had a go at Naga slasher and its two melee advancements, and it ended out coming out with much more of a pirate flavour than I thought it would, though I did make sure to include that they can be mercenaries too.

Let me know what you think. I'll happily rewrite if the pirate focus doesn't work.

Naga Slasher

Every young merchant setting out on the southern waterways for the first time knows to fears the Naga Slashers; the serpentine sons of the sea, who prey upon unprotected merchants, and make off with their cargo and their gold. Experienced merchants, however, know that it is much smarter to hire these Naga than it is to fear them. For the right price, the Slashers are a sailor's ally - protecting their ships, and, if the merchant is of dubious morals, targeting their rivals.

Slashers are most known for the two daggers that they traditionally carry. Though typically of poor craftmanship, these blades are nonetheless deadly when in the hands of an agile Naga. However, Slashers are equally comfortable operating as archers, using their mobility to keep their distance as they pepper their foes with arrows.

Naga Bladewhirler

Naga Bladewhirlers are easy to identify among a host of sellswords, if one knows what to look for. The most distinctive tell is the wickedly-curved blades that they carry, but subtler signs abound - be it the scars that tend to riddle their arms, the cunning that glimmers in their eyes, or the muscle that ripples under their scales. Those found lacking in these traits rarely find success among pirates and mercenaries.

Bladewhirlers are every bit as dangerous as their name would suggest, bringing their twin blades to bear with a deadly blend of grace and aggression. Their natural agility, honed by experience, allows them to twist and turn through chaotic melees, and they strike with power when presented with an opening. Bladewhirlers typically also carry bows, though they are not nearly so skilled as archers as they are as duelists.

Naga Dervish

The life of a Naga sellsword is often short and brutal, but for those blessed with skill and luck, can be lucrative indeed. Those who master their art come to be known as Naga Dervish; the aspiration of every young Naga, the dread of every young merchant, and the dream of every wealthy privateer. Adorned in gold and heavily bejewelled, to see a Dervish is to behold the fruits of a lifetime of piracy and sellswordery.

In combat, a Dervish dances from foe to foe, twin blades whirling around him with the ferocity of a cyclone. Each move in this dance is utterly unpredictable, yet perfectly fluid as the Dervish transitions from one strike to another. Those who manage to open the distance are far from safe, as the Dervish wields a bow with which to pick off those who flee.
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Re: Dunefolk Rework - Unit Descriptions

Post by Pentarctagon » July 23rd, 2019, 11:53 pm

While not precluding the above descriptions, the Nagas were envisioned to be more along the lines of allies of the Dunefolk than mercenaries. From their race description:
...Mutual interests have fostered cordial relations with neighboring Naga tribes...
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Re: Dunefolk Rework - Unit Descriptions

Post by Tom_Of_Wesnoth » July 24th, 2019, 12:04 am

Pentarctagon wrote:
July 23rd, 2019, 11:53 pm
While not precluding the above descriptions, the Nagas were envisioned to be more along the lines of allies of the Dunefolk than mercenaries. From their race description:
...Mutual interests have fostered cordial relations with neighboring Naga tribes...
Hm, that's interesting. I do enjoy the concept of the Naga being pirate-mercenaries, especially as the main place we see Nagas is as mercenaries serving 'evil' orcs, and they're generally an 'evil mirror' of the Merfolk. The southern Naga don't have to be the same as their northern cousins, though.

There is also the option, of course, of having the southern Naga be both pirate-mercenaries and allies of the Dunefolk - they're described as being tribes, and so they won't all have the same views and alliances. Perhaps the Bladewhirler line could lean more towards pirate-mercenaries, while the Ringcaster line could be those who are more friendly to the Dunefolk? We could tie that in with the Chakrams, and say that they're crafted by the Dunefolk as gifts to their allies.
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Re: Dunefolk Rework - Unit Descriptions

Post by Celtic_Minstrel » July 27th, 2019, 2:55 pm

Miscellaneous thoughts on descriptions that have been posted so far...
ghype wrote:
May 27th, 2019, 7:36 pm
Dune Alchemist Lv2 - Concept By Krogen
"Dune poisoners have abandoned the study of healing herbs and instead chose to focus on poisons. Their study has led them to creating potent concoctions which they use to dispose of their enemies. They are viewed warily by other Dunefolk, because their poisons are often used in assasinations."
Well first of all, it should say alchemist instead of poisoner as the second word. Didn't the alchemist still have some healing ability? (Mechanically, at least one of heals or cures?) If so, then rather than "abandoned" you should use words suggesting that they switched their focus.
ghype wrote:
May 27th, 2019, 7:36 pm
Dune Skirmisher Lv1 - Description By Hejnewar
"Dune Skirmishers are the ones who managed to achieve visibly better results at dodging, running and scouting during their training process. They learn how to swiftly avoid enemies and strike faster than them, however their true training begins on the battlefield with real enemies trying to kill them."
Do skirmishers have the same alignment as soldiers? If not it might be more appropriate not to imply that they train together.
ghype wrote:
May 27th, 2019, 7:36 pm
The Dunefolk, possibly known for being wealthy, surely can afford the needs of such sell-sword Nagas.
I don't think the Dunefolk would be known for being wealthy. That's not to say they don't have wealth, just that it's not something they're known for, and probably not something notable when compared to (for example) Wesnoth or the elves.

I don't exactly mind the sell-sword angle, but the nagas could also be formal allies.
Tom_Of_Wesnoth wrote:
July 22nd, 2019, 1:37 pm
Dune Soldier

The Soldier forms the core of any Dunefolk formation. Traditionally hailing from respected families – of noble blood, or of long military service – most Soldiers are trained in the art of swordplay from a young age. This training, along with their high-quality arms and armour, gives rise to potent warriors.

Though lacking in mobility, Soldiers are respected for their prowess in storming fortifications, and for their # resistance against enemy advances. The sight of the sunlight dancing across the shields of a formation of Soldiers is beautiful to behold, yet alarming for those tasked with fighting them.
This takes a problematic aspect of the original description and amplifies it. The original description only said many soldiers are from the nobility, which was already slightly weird. Now you're implying most soldiers are from the nobility, which is just nonsensical. The majority of soldiers in a feudal army would be (possibly-conscripted) conscripted commoners, with nobility only filling the role of officers. The phrase "Traditionally hailing from respected families - of noble blood or of long military service" might work for the Captain, but it doesn't fit at all for the Soldier.
Tom_Of_Wesnoth wrote:
July 23rd, 2019, 2:49 pm
Thanks!

I had a go at Naga slasher and its two melee advancements, and it ended out coming out with much more of a pirate flavour than I thought it would, though I did make sure to include that they can be mercenaries too.

Let me know what you think. I'll happily rewrite if the pirate focus doesn't work.
I kinda like the pirate focus, but... I'm not sure how suitable it is. Certainly the nautical side of a piracy is good here, I'm just not sure about the other side of piracy - the raiding and looting. After all, the southern nagas are supposed to be allies?

The only specific phrase I didn't like is the suggestion that a slasher's blades are typically of poor craftsmanship.
Tom_Of_Wesnoth wrote:
July 24th, 2019, 12:04 am
Perhaps the Bladewhirler line could lean more towards pirate-mercenaries, while the Ringcaster line could be those who are more friendly to the Dunefolk? We could tie that in with the Chakrams, and say that they're crafted by the Dunefolk as gifts to their allies.
The chakrams are 10,000× cooler if the nagas crafted them themselves. Making them gifts from the Dunefolk ruins the concept.
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