The Logic Behind the Dwarvish Name List

[Andrettin]

After spending quite a bit of time analyzing the dwarvish name list, I could identify a very distinct pattern present in all of those names (save one) - they are three-part compounds. The parts of the compounds repeat themselves extensively throughout the names in the list, but always in the same position (i.e. a part that appears as the third element in one name will always appear as the third element in other names that contain it). The only exception is "Al", which appears both as a first and a second element (also together).

The first elements of the compounds are as such:
Aig-
Al-
An-
Aug-
Dul-
Glam-
Gom-
Nar-
Pel-
Trith-

The second elements are the following:
-aith-
-al-
-at-
-cat-
-dr-
-dur-
-tha-

And the third elements of the compounds:
-as
-il
-ing
-is
-los
-ol
-sil
-sol
-us

You can look at any name in the dwarvish name list, and it will be formed this way (except for "Glomin").

One could think "well, but if you split the names in another way that could result in different elements". I questioned myself the same, but it turns out that there is no other way to split the names and keep the same astounding regularity and with as few compounding elements.

[Whiskeyjack]

Interestingly, a lot of the explicitely named dwarves in mainline campaigns don follow this pattern at all:

Burin (TRoW), Relgorn (HttT), Thursagan, Rugnur, Durstorn, Baglur, Glonoin, Kuhnar (SoF), Stalrag (NR), Hamel (NR/THoT), Karrag (THoT)

Only some of the characters from THoT follow clever changes of the mentioned elements.

Aiglondur, Angarthing, Dulcatulos (THoT)

I think the fact that all names on the list are build that way has to do with the need to create such a list while containing a consistency between the names, but I think it is a great option to use this to build Dwarvish names like the ones in THoT. Some of the other names don seem as dwarvelike to me...At least in Wesnoth Dwarvish turns.

Thanks for the work, this will probably come in handy in the future!

[Andrettin]

Interestingly, a lot of the explicitely named dwarves in mainline campaigns don follow this pattern at all:

Burin (TRoW), Relgorn (HttT), Thursagan, Rugnur, Durstorn, Baglur, Glonoin, Kuhnar (SoF), Stalrag (NR), Hamel (NR/THoT), Karrag (THoT)

Burin and the dwarves in the Sceptre of Fire and Under the Burning Suns seem to be inspired by Norse mythology (specially names of dwarves in Norse mythology) - or inspired in something that was inspired by Norse mythology. For instance, in Norse mythology there isn't a "Burin", but there is a "Durin", in whose name Burin was probably inspired.

The ending "-ur" (used for Baglur, Rugnur and Neglur) is a common noun ending in Icelandic (in Old Norse it was -r, yielding names like "Baldr" - but replacing that with the modern Icelandic's "-ur" makes such names more readable for English speakers); the ending also happened in Old Norse in a few rarer cases such as the name of the dwarf "Bifur". The ending -ar (present for Kuhnar and Glinar) was common in Old Norse, in names such as "Fjalar" and "Galar". The ending -i (present in Theganli) was used in Old Norse for adjectives and verb participles (for instance: Solblindi = Sun-blinded).

"Oin" was the name in Norse mythology of a dwarf (the father of Andvari), and it is probably in this name that "Glonoin" is inspired.

As for, "Thursagan" - the noun "Thurs" in Old Norse means "giant".

In LoW there is "Olurf", which I think is a modification of the Scandinavian name "Olaf".

Only some of the characters from THoT follow clever changes of the mentioned elements.

Aiglondur, Angarthing, Dulcatulos (THoT)

Yes, I've noticed that too These seem indeed to have been based on the names of the dwarvish name list.

I think the fact that all names on the list are build that way has to do with the need to create such a list while containing a consistency between the names, but I think it is a great option to use this to build Dwarvish names like the ones in THoT. Some of the other names don seem as dwarvelike to me...At least in Wesnoth Dwarvish turns.

I think you are right. I wondered if there was a meaning to the elements of the names in the dwarvish name list, but if there was that seems to have been lost. Those names were committed to the repository in 2003[1], and I asked Sirp if he remembered who wrote them, but unfortunately he doesn't.

Thanks for the work, this will probably come in handy in the future!

Thanks, I hope this indeed helps someone in the future

[johndh]

Warning: I put way too much thought into this. If you don't want an in-depth analysis on my current headcanon of dwarven nomenclature, feel free to skip this post.

My current headcanon is that every dwarf has a regular name made of three pieces (perhaps one from the father, one from the mother, and one from the clan), and then lords, generals, rulers, heroes, and legendary characters get a more fanciful "famous name". Like how there was once a famous athlete (now retired) named Edson Arantes do Nascimento, but everybody knows him as Pelé. These may have meanings (Richard "the Lionheart"), or they may be shortened versions, or a reference to their speech or mannerisms (like a former president called Dubya). This would explain how there is a repeating pattern, in that there are only so many combinations if nobody is coming up with new hereditary names, and also why specific characters don't fit the pattern. Since I've found some dwarven names that have two middle syllables, I need to come up with a rule that allows that to happen. It seems like it should be some kind of honor, perhaps to designate an heir, which is a tradition that might vary between families. I imagine that dwarves respect their elders, so the act of choosing an heir might traditionally be left to a grandparent.

Any of these conventions may vary between cultures, and the order doesn't really matter. This is just one order that creates a nice pattern, and it takes into account a structured society (names following a pattern) and reverence for one's elders (inheriting syllables). If you swap sons for second-born for third-born, or who gets first and second syllables from whom, the result is about the same. Fathers have similar names to their sons, mothers have similar names to their daughters, all of the sons share a clan name with each other and their father, and all of the daughters share a clan name with each other and their mother. Additionally, the example below shows that (given enough syllables) the names won't repeat in a large family of three sons, three daughters, their parents, their grandparents, and their great-grandparents. Some parents may pull from their "famous names" when naming children that they had after gaining that name (if it's one they're proud of), which would inject a small number of new syllables into the pool every once in a while, as other syllables may die off.

The method I have looks like this: a first child of a given sex (first son, first daughter) gets the first syllable from the same-sex parent (daughter from mother, son from father), the second syllable from the opposite-sex parent (daughter from father, son from mother), the second child of a given sex gets their mismatched grandparents' syllables instead (mother's father and father's mother), the third child of a given sex gets their matched grandparents' syllables (mother's mother and father's father), and a suffix gets passed down along the patriline for sons and the matriline for daughters. The great-grandparents supply the first and second syllables for the fourth, fifth, sixth, and seventh child of a given sex, then the great-great-grandparents and so on for huge families.

To express this more in a more formulaic way to make it easier to understand:
ABC is the first son of his family and DEF is the first daughter of her family, and together they have a son named AEC and a daughter named DBF. ABC got A and C from his father and B from his mother. DEF got D and F from her mother and E from her father. Thus, AEC and DBF's grandparents are AGC (ABC's father), HBI (ABC's mother), JEK (DEF's father), and DLF (DEF's mother). ABC and DEF have a second son named HEC (father's mother + mother's father + father's clan), a second daughter named JBF (mother's father + father's mother + mother's clan), a third son named ALC (father's father + mother's mother + father's clan), and a third daughter named DGF (mother's mother + father's father + mother's clan). ABC and DEF together have sons named AEC, HEC, and ALC; and daughters named DBF, JBF, and DGF. Their grandparents are HBI, JEK, AGC, and DLF. Their great-grandparents on their father's (ABC's) side are AMC, NGO, PBQ, HRI; and on their mother's (DEF's) side are JSK, TEU, VLW, and DXF.

I picture dwarves as polygynists, perhaps because they're masculine and take pride in their wealth, so let's take a look at the half-siblings of AEC, HEC, ALC, DBF, JBF, and DGF. ABC's second wife is named YZa because I ran out of capital letters. YZa's father is bZc and her mother is Yda. ABC and YZa have three sons named AZC, HZC, and AdC; and three daughters named YBa, bBa, and YGa. ABC's sons are named AEC, HEC, ALC, AZC, HZC, and AdC. ABC's daughters are named DBF, JBF, DGF, YBa, bBa, and YGa.

The paternal uncles (ABC's younger brothers, AGC and HBI's second and third sons) are NBC and ARC. The paternal aunts (ABC's sisters, AGC and HBI's daughters) are HGI, PGI, and HMI. The maternal uncles (DEF's brothers, JEK and DLF's sons) are JLK, TLK, and JXK. The maternal aunts (DEF's younger sisters, JEK and DLF's second and third daughters) are VEF and DSF.

Example:
We can replace the letters above with syllables from the list to get a family tree with dwarven names. Aigaithas marries Anatil and they have a son named Aigatas (father's first, mother's second, father's clan) and a daughter named Anaithil (mother's first, father's second, mother's clan). The grandparents are Aigcatas (Aigaithas' father), Augaithing (Aigaithas' mother), Dulatis (Anatil's father), and Andril (Anatil's mother). Aigaithas and Anatil have a second son named Augatas, a third son named Aigduras, a second daughter named Dulaithil, and a third daughter named Ancatil. Aigaithas and Anatil together have sons named Aigatas, Augatas, Aigduras; and daughters named Anaithil, Dulaithil, and Ancatil. Their grandparents are Aigcatas, Augaithing, Dulatis, and Andril. Their great-grandparents on their father's (Aigaithas') side are Aigduras, Glamcatlos, Gomaithol, and Augth(a)ing. Their great-grandparents on their mother's (Anatil's) side are Dul{S}is, Naratsil, Peldrsol, and An{X}il (braced variables where I ran out of syllables to choose from). The paternal uncles (Aigaithas' younger brothers, Aigcatas and Augaithing's second and third sons) are Glamaithas and Aigth(a)as. The paternal aunts (Aigaithas' sisters, Aigcatas and Augaithing's daughters) are Augcating, Gomcating, and Augduring. The maternal uncles (Anatil's brothers, Dulatis and Andril's sons) are Duldris, Nardris, and Dul{X}is. The maternal aunts (Anatil's younger sisters, Dulatis and Andril's second and third daughters) are Pelatil and An{S}il.

After spending quite a bit of time analyzing the dwarvish name list, I could identify a very distinct pattern present in all of those names (save one) - they are three-part compounds. The parts of the compounds repeat themselves extensively throughout the names in the list, but always in the same position (i.e. a part that appears as the third element in one name will always appear as the third element in other names that contain it). The only exception is "Al", which appears both as a first and a second element (also together).

Unless I'm misunderstanding the rules, it seems that I've recruited some exceptions.
Aug-dr-aith-a-ol (made of five parts, -a- middle; or -aol ending)
Tril (one part)
Gla-il (two parts, Gla- beginning)
Al-aith-a-as (-a- middle)
Nar-aith-dur-it (four parts, -it ending)
Trith-a-sil (-a- middle)
Nar-dur-ith-is (four parts, -ith- middle)
Dul-thaith-sil (four parts, -tha- and -aith- drop an 'a' when compressed together)
An-durlol (-lol ending or -durl- middle)
Al-am-cat-ing (four parts, -am- middle)

I'm sure I could keep doing it, but these were just what I came up with in a few minutes. It seems to me that four-part names are also valid, that there are some cases where letters get dropped, and that there are a few parts not accounted for in your list.

New first element:
Gla-

New second elements:
-a-
-am-
-ith-

New third elements:
-lol
-it

Interestingly, a lot of the explicitely named dwarves in mainline campaigns don follow this pattern at all:

Burin (TRoW), Relgorn (HttT), Thursagan, Rugnur, Durstorn, Baglur, Glonoin, Kuhnar (SoF), Stalrag (NR), Hamel (NR/THoT), Karrag (THoT)

Only some of the characters from THoT follow clever changes of the mentioned elements.

Aiglondur, Angarthing, Dulcatulos (THoT)

Thursagan, Glonoin, Aiglondur, Angarthing, and Dulcatulos seem to fit the general "three or four distinct syllables" pattern, even if each syllable isn't seen in the list or isn't in the right place. It could be that these are completely valid syllables to have, just not common enough to see general circulation in a grab-bag of random names, like how Miles James is a valid name even though Miles isn't that common and James is more commonly a first name, so you would be unlikely to pick it out of a hat. Let's chop these dwarven celebrity names up and see what we get. Thur-sag-an, Glo-no-in, Ai-glon-dur, An-gar-th(a)-ing, Dul-cat-u-los. For Angarthing, I'm willing to accept that -tha- and -ing may drop the 'a' when combined.

Rarer first elements:
Thur-
Glo-

Rarer second elements:
-sag-
-no-
-glon-
-gar-
-u-

Rare third elements:
-an
-in
-dur (as an ending)

The ending -in also appears in the dwarven names Burin and Glomin. Durstorn shows us that 'dur' can be placed anywhere in the name.

Edit: Here's me showing my work, in case there exists the kind of person to want to read that: http://pastebin.com/EnEcrB7T

[Andrettin]

Warning: I put way too much thought into this. If you don't want an in-depth analysis on my current headcanon of dwarven nomenclature, feel free to skip this post.

My current headcanon is that every dwarf has a regular name made of three pieces (perhaps one from the father, one from the mother, and one from the clan), and then lords, generals, rulers, heroes, and legendary characters get a more fanciful "famous name". Like how there was once a famous athlete (now retired) named Edson Arantes do Nascimento, but everybody knows him as Pelé. These may have meanings (Richard "the Lionheart"), or they may be shortened versions, or a reference to their speech or mannerisms (like a former president called Dubya). This would explain how there is a repeating pattern, in that there are only so many combinations if nobody is coming up with new hereditary names, and also why specific characters don't fit the pattern. Since I've found some dwarven names that have two middle syllables, I need to come up with a rule that allows that to happen. It seems like it should be some kind of honor, perhaps to designate an heir, which is a tradition that might vary between families. I imagine that dwarves respect their elders, so the act of choosing an heir might traditionally be left to a grandparent.

Any of these conventions may vary between cultures, and the order doesn't really matter. This is just one order that creates a nice pattern, and it takes into account a structured society (names following a pattern) and reverence for one's elders (inheriting syllables). If you swap sons for second-born for third-born, or who gets first and second syllables from whom, the result is about the same. Fathers have similar names to their sons, mothers have similar names to their daughters, all of the sons share a clan name with each other and their father, and all of the daughters share a clan name with each other and their mother. Additionally, the example below shows that (given enough syllables) the names won't repeat in a large family of three sons, three daughters, their parents, their grandparents, and their great-grandparents. Some parents may pull from their "famous names" when naming children that they had after gaining that name (if it's one they're proud of), which would inject a small number of new syllables into the pool every once in a while, as other syllables may die off.

The method I have looks like this: a first child of a given sex (first son, first daughter) gets the first syllable from the same-sex parent (daughter from mother, son from father), the second syllable from the opposite-sex parent (daughter from father, son from mother), the second child of a given sex gets their mismatched grandparents' syllables instead (mother's father and father's mother), the third child of a given sex gets their matched grandparents' syllables (mother's mother and father's father), and a suffix gets passed down along the patriline for sons and the matriline for daughters. The great-grandparents supply the first and second syllables for the fourth, fifth, sixth, and seventh child of a given sex, then the great-great-grandparents and so on for huge families.

To express this more in a more formulaic way to make it easier to understand:
ABC is the first son of his family and DEF is the first daughter of her family, and together they have a son named AEC and a daughter named DBF. ABC got A and C from his father and B from his mother. DEF got D and F from her mother and E from her father. Thus, AEC and DBF's grandparents are AGC (ABC's father), HBI (ABC's mother), JEK (DEF's father), and DLF (DEF's mother). ABC and DEF have a second son named HEC (father's mother + mother's father + father's clan), a second daughter named JBF (mother's father + father's mother + mother's clan), a third son named ALC (father's father + mother's mother + father's clan), and a third daughter named DGF (mother's mother + father's father + mother's clan). ABC and DEF together have sons named AEC, HEC, and ALC; and daughters named DBF, JBF, and DGF. Their grandparents are HBI, JEK, AGC, and DLF. Their great-grandparents on their father's (ABC's) side are AMC, NGO, PBQ, HRI; and on their mother's (DEF's) side are JSK, TEU, VLW, and DXF.

I picture dwarves as polygynists, perhaps because they're masculine and take pride in their wealth, so let's take a look at the half-siblings of AEC, HEC, ALC, DBF, JBF, and DGF. ABC's second wife is named YZa because I ran out of capital letters. YZa's father is bZc and her mother is Yda. ABC and YZa have three sons named AZC, HZC, and AdC; and three daughters named YBa, bBa, and YGa. ABC's sons are named AEC, HEC, ALC, AZC, HZC, and AdC. ABC's daughters are named DBF, JBF, DGF, YBa, bBa, and YGa.

The paternal uncles (ABC's younger brothers, AGC and HBI's second and third sons) are NBC and ARC. The paternal aunts (ABC's sisters, AGC and HBI's daughters) are HGI, PGI, and HMI. The maternal uncles (DEF's brothers, JEK and DLF's sons) are JLK, TLK, and JXK. The maternal aunts (DEF's younger sisters, JEK and DLF's second and third daughters) are VEF and DSF.

Example:
We can replace the letters above with syllables from the list to get a family tree with dwarven names. Aigaithas marries Anatil and they have a son named Aigatas (father's first, mother's second, father's clan) and a daughter named Anaithil (mother's first, father's second, mother's clan). The grandparents are Aigcatas (Aigaithas' father), Augaithing (Aigaithas' mother), Dulatis (Anatil's father), and Andril (Anatil's mother). Aigaithas and Anatil have a second son named Augatas, a third son named Aigduras, a second daughter named Dulaithil, and a third daughter named Ancatil. Aigaithas and Anatil together have sons named Aigatas, Augatas, Aigduras; and daughters named Anaithil, Dulaithil, and Ancatil. Their grandparents are Aigcatas, Augaithing, Dulatis, and Andril. Their great-grandparents on their father's (Aigaithas') side are Aigduras, Glamcatlos, Gomaithol, and Augth(a)ing. Their great-grandparents on their mother's (Anatil's) side are Dul{S}is, Naratsil, Peldrsol, and An{X}il (braced variables where I ran out of syllables to choose from). The paternal uncles (Aigaithas' younger brothers, Aigcatas and Augaithing's second and third sons) are Glamaithas and Aigth(a)as. The paternal aunts (Aigaithas' sisters, Aigcatas and Augaithing's daughters) are Augcating, Gomcating, and Augduring. The maternal uncles (Anatil's brothers, Dulatis and Andril's sons) are Duldris, Nardris, and Dul{X}is. The maternal aunts (Anatil's younger sisters, Dulatis and Andril's second and third daughters) are Pelatil and An{S}il.

That is very nice work! The idea is quite interesting; I do think, however, that it would be nice to leave place for a given name, so that the parents can still choose a part of the name for the child, based on the circumstances of birth, what they expect of the child, etc.

Unless I'm misunderstanding the rules, it seems that I've recruited some exceptions.
Aug-dr-aith-a-ol (made of five parts, -a- middle; or -aol ending)
Tril (one part)
Gla-il (two parts, Gla- beginning)
Al-aith-a-as (-a- middle)
Nar-aith-dur-it (four parts, -it ending)
Trith-a-sil (-a- middle)
Nar-dur-ith-is (four parts, -ith- middle)
Dul-thaith-sil (four parts, -tha- and -aith- drop an 'a' when compressed together)
An-durlol (-lol ending or -durl- middle)
Al-am-cat-ing (four parts, -am- middle)

I'm sure I could keep doing it, but these were just what I came up with in a few minutes. It seems to me that four-part names are also valid, that there are some cases where letters get dropped, and that there are a few parts not accounted for in your list.

New first element:
Gla-

New second elements:
-a-
-am-
-ith-

New third elements:
-lol
-it

These are dwarves you recruited in-game, right? Wesnoth has an algorith which mixes up syllables of the name list to make names that sound like those of the list, allowing thus for greater name variety than the actual name list would allow. The name list I was talking about is the one found here:

https://raw.githubusercontent.com/wesno ... /names.cfg

In the dwarvish name list there, all names follow the rules I mentioned, with the exception of Glomin.

Thursagan, Glonoin, Aiglondur, Angarthing, and Dulcatulos seem to fit the general "three or four distinct syllables" pattern, even if each syllable isn't seen in the list or isn't in the right place. It could be that these are completely valid syllables to have, just not common enough to see general circulation in a grab-bag of random names, like how Miles James is a valid name even though Miles isn't that common and James is more commonly a first name, so you would be unlikely to pick it out of a hat. Let's chop these dwarven celebrity names up and see what we get. Thur-sag-an, Glo-no-in, Ai-glon-dur, An-gar-th(a)-ing, Dul-cat-u-los. For Angarthing, I'm willing to accept that -tha- and -ing may drop the 'a' when combined.

Rarer first elements:
Thur-
Glo-

Rarer second elements:
-sag-
-no-
-glon-
-gar-
-u-

Rare third elements:
-an
-in
-dur (as an ending)

The ending -in also appears in the dwarven names Burin and Glomin. Durstorn shows us that 'dur' can be placed anywhere in the name.

That is an interesting conclusion regarding "Dur". I do tend to agree. I also agree that, of course, the elements in Thursagan's and etc. names may simply be rarer elements. Elements may not be neatly split into syllables though. For instance, "Trith-" is one element, but has two syllables.

About Aiglondur, Angarthing and Dulcatulos, I would split their names differently:
Aig-lon-dur (in keeping with the known "Aig-" first element, and introducing "-lon-" and "-dur" as two new elements).
An-garth-ing (in keeping with the known "An-" and "-ing" elements); a rule that "tha" and "ing" would become "thing" wouldn't work, unfortunately, because there are many instances of names like "Aigthaing" in the base dwarvish name list.
Dul-cat-ulos (in keeping with the known "Dul-" and "-cat-" elements, and introducing a new one, "-ulos"; alternatively, the name could be split Dul-catu-los)

[Whiskeyjack]

That is very nice work! The idea is quite interesting; I do think, however, that it would be nice to leave place for a given name, so that the parents can still choose a part of the name for the child, based on the circumstances of birth, what they expect of the child, etc.

Wow, you two really did some crazy amount of thinking on this. I second the point that names should not be entirely deterministic, but I have a couple of suggestions about this:

Only the first and third syllables are conventions (same sex relative and clan) and the rules about the middle one is more loosely followed depending on clan tradition, I also think besides the heir the name conventions should be less strict, only forcing the name of a relative, but only suggesting which one. Furthermore fourth (and possibly fifth) syllables are added by parents that want the individuality for their childs names.
I think the fixed syllables should always be at start and end, thus adding new ones only in between (because that way the clan and the (namewise) more important relative could be seen more clearly on first glance).

This would explain why special names can have one or two syllables (because they are missing the clan syllable) and it would create a very exciting interaction with the fact that outcast dwarves would probably only have two syllable names as well, because they would be stripped of their family part.

[johndh]

Yeah, in retrospect, my proposed system is entirely too deterministic even for dwarves, and I'm not proposing that any authors be bound by it. I just started with something and got really carried away, but I figured it might provoke some discussion on the cultural aspects of dwarven naming conventions. The main gist of what I was going for was that dwarves probably have a hereditary element to their name and probably have similar names to their relatives, as was common for the Old Norse and somewhat for modern Iceland. As a fun side note, did you know Iceland has an official governing body in charge of what names people are allowed to have? That seems like a very dwarven thing to do... perhaps they have to bring a new child before a group of elders (sister-wives, aunts, uncles, grandparents, and great-grandparents) to bestow a blessing on the child's name.

This would explain why special names can have one or two syllables (because they are missing the clan syllable) and it would create a very exciting interaction with the fact that outcast dwarves would probably only have two syllable names as well, because they would be stripped of their family part.

That could certainly be a way to explain the shorter names -- bastards, orphans, etc.

These are dwarves you recruited in-game, right? Wesnoth has an algorith which mixes up syllables of the name list to make names that sound like those of the list, allowing thus for greater name variety than the actual name list would allow. The name list I was talking about is the one found here:

https://raw.githubusercontent.com/wesno ... /names.cfg

In the dwarvish name list there, all names follow the rules I mentioned, with the exception of Glomin.

Gotcha. I was under the impression that the algorithm generated a list of names, and that the game pulled from that list. I guess I learned something today.

For instance, "Trith-" is one element, but has two syllables.

Err... how are you saying it? I can't imagine any way of saying "Trith" that results in two syllables.