A twist of fate, concerning Ockwards UMC

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Ockward
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A twist of fate, concerning Ockwards UMC

Post by Ockward »

Hey there, Wesnoth forums, I'm not dead! :D

Also, to ease your hearts, I can also inform you that my UMC is still a WIP. (yay?)

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Now, on to the topic; Details,*spoilers*, etc., and so on.

And as such I wonder if there have been any Wesnothian "crusades*" recorded in said history meant to purge undead, also, when and where did these occur, and were there any important figures in these "crusades"?
*Crusades might not be the right word, since there probably weren't any crusaders in wesnoth.

While I'm on a questioning spree,I might as well ask: Can a lich die of age, theoretically? :hmm:

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OT-isch: I'd love to be able to preform some necromancy on the thread which were to hold my ... uhm ... storyboard for this campaign, but alas, unfortunately the last post in it is my own, and therefore I will not be able to... although I do not want anyone to post anything there just yet, unless you have a specific reason. I need more content to make a comeback to that thread worthwhile.
Last edited by Ockward on March 15th, 2014, 12:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Why I use debug, you say? I like the stories, not the actual fighting.
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Great_Mage_Atari
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Re: Wesnothian Crusades?

Post by Great_Mage_Atari »

Ockward wrote:Hey there, Wesnoth forums, I'm not dead!
Congrats.
Ockward wrote:And as such I wonder if there have been any Wesnothian "crusades*" recorded in said history meant to purge undead, also, when and where did these occur, and were there any important figures in these "crusades"?
*Crusades might not be the right word, since there probably weren't any crusaders in wesnoth.
Well yeah, sort of. Lots of the stories include factions rising up and/or killing the undead. They mostly just wanted to purge the land of undead and their evil ways or keep themselves from being purged by the undead.
Ockward wrote:While I'm on a questioning spree,I might as well ask: Can a lich die of age, theoretically?
No. Given that they use dark magic and can raise the undead and skeletons alike, I think it's safe to guess that they can keep themselves fully animated forever. Bones do deteriorate after a while (i.e. millions of years [see dinosaurs]), however it can be assumed that liches use dark magic to keep themselves from deteriorating.
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Re: Wesnothian Crusades?

Post by James_The_Invisible »

Ockward wrote:While I'm on a questioning spree,I might as well ask: Can a lich die of age, theoretically?
Maybe yes, maybe no. No one knows for sure.
Description of Lich wrote:It is not known, save perhaps by the inner circles of necromancy, whether life is prolonged indefinitely or simply extended.
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johndh
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Re: Wesnothian Crusades?

Post by johndh »

Both of your questions are (more or less) answered at the end of Descent Into Darkness.

Spoiler for DID:
Spoiler:
Spoiler for events "after the fall":
Spoiler:
It's spelled "definitely", not "definately". "Defiantly" is a different word entirely.
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Ockward
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Re: Wesnothian Crusades?

Post by Ockward »

Great_Mage_Atari wrote:Well yeah, sort of. Lots of the stories include factions rising up and/or killing the undead. They mostly just wanted to purge the land of undead and their evil ways or keep themselves from being purged by the undead.
Hmm... suppose I'll have to scour all mainline campaigns for details about undead purges...
If there really hasn't been any purges besides the ones you yourself lead, things might get complicated... unless I get the right to make a purge at a specific time canon.
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Regarding what you two have answered to my second question, the millions of years answer seems logical, BUT... what about the necromantic magic part? Is there a need for the liches to constantly sustain their... *takes a moment to get it right (also starts specualting)*... artificial life by constantly fueling it with arcane power? If so, where would all this power come from? I'd like to believe that wesnothian magic comes from an infinite source, or just doesn't use energy; it makes more sense that way, considering that the creation of a second sun would require such an immense amount of energy, it'd just be impossible. One does not simply fit that many mages at the same place.

With the philosophical part out of the way, let's hear your opinion on wether a lich, if it needs to constantly fuel it's existence with arcane power, needs to do so consciously or just does it unconsciously.

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EDIT: Well, noticed there came a third post, reading it to see if this post is valid anymore ;)
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EDIT2: Ok, seems valid enough, thanks for replying, johndh, at least the age part isn't something to bother to dabble in.
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johndh
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Re: Wesnothian Crusades?

Post by johndh »

The ones in DID could start as early as 389YW and could continue until the fall of Wesnoth, as far as I know. Undead existed before then (and indeed even before the founding of Wesnoth) and certainly could have been purged, but the first instance of a "crusade" that I know of would be that one in particular.

http://wiki.wesnoth.org/Timeline_of_Wesnoth
It's spelled "definitely", not "definately". "Defiantly" is a different word entirely.
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Re: Did Wesnoth have crusades, and can Liches die alone?

Post by UK1 »

I believe that in the canon campaigns, nobody knows for sure. I honestly forget which campaign it was, but I believe it was DiD, where the narrator said that liches extended their life for a very long time, perhaps forever. So they might, but they might not. Given that we saw the lich from DiD in a later canon campaign that was supposed to occur aeons in the future, it's safe to say, I think, that if liches do not live forever, they live long enough that referring to them as living forever may as well be accurate.

And the question "Do Liches die alone?" seems almost... philosophical. It reminds me of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Li8cryWN2ew

EDIT: I'm not really willing to do the digging through canon to find it, but I believe a campaign made mention of various rituals that, with the help of Dark Adepts and other acolytes,a powerful necromantic wizard can use to extend their life with regular application or said rituals. Note that these rituals are distinct from those that turn a character into a Lich (you know, aside from leveling up a Dark Sorcerer :P )

EDIT EDIT: I'll also mention that there's a high probability that the last campaign I mentioned with the rituals and what-not may not even be canon.
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Ockward
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Re: Did Wesnoth have crusades, and can Liches die alone?

Post by Ockward »

EUREKA!! :shock:

Was there a time
when(*spoilers for Eastern Invasion and Dead Water*):
My direct answer would be
when(*spoilers for Eastern Invasion and Dead Water*):
Conclusion(*spoilers for Eastern Invasion and Dead Water*):
:hmm: ...Am I taking it too far with the spoiler brackets...?
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Re: Did Wesnoth have crusades, and can Liches die alone?

Post by revansurik »

Was there a time
when(*spoilers for Eastern Invasion and Dead Water*):
Spoiler:
Well, there have always been a few necromancers wandering about Wesnoth; Darken Volk in DiD, that Dark Adept from the later scenarios of TSG, those liches from the Grey Woods in Liberty, those necromancers from HttT (Muff Malal peninsula, Siege of Elensefar and the Valley of Death)... Also, notice that the highest number of necromancers coincide with the times Wesnoth was least protected (specially during Asheviere's reign, known as the Age of Turmoil); after Ravanal's attack, there might have been another surge of necromancers, many of which might have come from his own army, but in other ages, when the government was stronger, there wouldn't be many, for there'd be paladins and white mages constantly chasing them (like those from DiD). Still, even in those times I don't think it would be too unlikely to bump into a Necromancer in a small inn across Wesnothian countryside.

Also, I have a question myself:
Spoiler:
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If you enjoyed A Song of Fire, War of the Jewel, Aria of the Dragon-Slayer and Soldier of Wesnoth, you may like my new project: Star of Chaos, a science-fiction mystery/adventure intended to be a trilogy
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Ockward
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Re: Did Wesnoth have crusades, and can Liches die alone?

Post by Ockward »

revansurik wrote:
Also, I have a question myself:
Spoiler:
Let me think...(*thinks for two minutes, then heads over to the timline of wesnoth*)...
sidenote, and campaign spoiler:
Answer: It would seem he actually doesn't, since he is only mentioned twice in the whole timeline; his birth and return to his hometown.
He is one of my favourite characters in all of Wesnoth, and I'd love to see more mainline campaigns he dabbles into, not only his own :|

Timeline of Wesnoth
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Re: Did Wesnoth have crusades, and can Liches die alone?

Post by Velensk »

He does not show up in any other mainline campaigns but he is used in several user made ones. Due to the way Wesnoth works that gives them some cannon value.
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Re: Did Wesnoth have crusades, and can Liches die alone?

Post by Sapient »

So the UMCs are like fodder for our canon? ;)
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Re: Did Wesnoth have crusades, and can Liches die alone?

Post by johndh »

revansurik wrote: When does the lich Mal Keshar appear in any other canon campaign? :shock:
I believe it was one of shadowmaster's campaigns, which makes it nearly mainline canon in my opinion.
It's spelled "definitely", not "definately". "Defiantly" is a different word entirely.
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Ockward
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A twist of fate in my favor? Old topic is still on.

Post by Ockward »

I just noticed something that made me shout out loud: "Whaaaah!", and then: "Gehehehaha!!" :twisted:
For anyone who doesn't mind spoiling themselves about my UMC, also, {Name of developer, which I do not want to mention, since it might violate the posting guidelines}, you're an exception, because you're the one who caused this, so I'd love to hear your take on this:
While writing this, another question about liches sprung into my mind: Theoretically, could a lich posess a body with only their skull? :hmm:
Source:Ancient Lich Development

EDIT: Removed names of specific developer.

EDIT2: Changed "which I can't mention" to "which I do not want to mention", also canged "since it violates" to "since it might violate" -2014-03-15 17:21
Last edited by Ockward on March 15th, 2014, 4:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A twist of fate in my favor? Old topic is still on.

Post by zookeeper »

Firstly, I can't see a rule against addressing other users by name...
Ockward wrote:I just noticed something that made me shout out loud: "Whaaaah!", and then: "Gehehehaha!!" :twisted:
For anyone who doesn't mind spoiling themselves about my UMC, also, {Name of developer, which I can't mention, since it violates the posting guidelines}, you're an exception, because you're the one who caused this, so I'd love to hear your take on this:
There's no reason for the discrepancy, the hills are simply different on all maps and I might also have tweaked my technique slightly between the maps, making the hills on the newer EI map look slightly more dense.
Thirdly, could there possibly be a reason for elves to not inhabit at least one of these two forests? This is the only catch hindering me from starting to make maps in the editor.
I can't see any reason why they couldn't, or why there couldn't be a reason why they wouldn't.
While writing this, another question about liches sprung into my mind: Theoretically, could a lich posess a body with only their skull? :hmm:
Source:Ancient Lich Development
I don't see why not. I'm sure it'd be very rare though.
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