Revising the HttT Text & Dialogue

[Temuchin Khan]

About the intro. I've always wondered if this:

"When the command reached Delfador, he stole into Weldyn's palace and secreted away Konrad, the youngest of Garard II's nephews, saving him from the very clutches of death."

Should be changed to something a little less precise. Maybe this:

"When the command reached Delfador, he stole into Weldyn's palace to secret away Konrad, the youngest of Garard II's nephews, and save him from the very clutches of death."

Or, though a bit more wordy, maybe this:

"When the command reached Delfador, he stole into Weldyn's palace to save as many of them as he could. When he arrived at the Aethenwood weeks later, he carried a child he identified as Konrad, Garard II's youngest nephew."

Spoiler:

If we rephrased it this way, we would no longer be asserting that Konrad, our hero, is the same as Konrad, Garard's nephew, but would still appear to be doing so to someone who had never played the campaign.

[Jozrael]

That last one in particular totally gives it away. I think it's ok to have a narrator that is not omniscient. Alternatively...we could have it written as Delfador's account of things. E.g. (quick and dirty) 'delfador returned to the elves, relieved that he had been able to rescue the last nephew from the clutches of death' or something like that. I agree the current state of things isn't perfect but I think it's preferable to keep up the illusion. I know I didn't figure it out on my first playthrough for a significant amount of the campaign.

[AI]

In addition to the "totally gave it away" part, the new version makes it sound like he only intends to save one kid, leaving the rest to die.

[Temuchin Khan]

That last one in particular totally gives it away. I think it's ok to have a narrator that is not omniscient. Alternatively...we could have it written as Delfador's account of things. E.g. (quick and dirty) 'delfador returned to the elves, relieved that he had been able to rescue the last nephew from the clutches of death' or something like that. I agree the current state of things isn't perfect but I think it's preferable to keep up the illusion. I know I didn't figure it out on my first playthrough for a significant amount of the campaign.

Actually, rewriting it from Delfador's point of view might be the best solution, far better than either of my suggestions.

[Pewskeepski]

That last one in particular totally gives it away. I think it's ok to have a narrator that is not omniscient. Alternatively...we could have it written as Delfador's account of things. E.g. (quick and dirty) 'delfador returned to the elves, relieved that he had been able to rescue the last nephew from the clutches of death' or something like that. I agree the current state of things isn't perfect but I think it's preferable to keep up the illusion. I know I didn't figure it out on my first playthrough for a significant amount of the campaign.

Actually, rewriting it from Delfador's point of view might be the best solution, far better than either of my suggestions.

But Delfador knows about the secret so wouldn't writing it from hi view point give it away? Unless of course certain writing tactics were used, but it could still cause problems, I think.

[zookeeper]

I don't really see a need to make the intro less precise. Likewise I don't see much need to write it from anyone's perspective in particular; it's what Konrad has been told, so it's "Delfador's version" already. The only benefit that I can see would be that the blame for the lie would be on one of the characters instead of on the narrator, which arguably is preferable since lying narrators aren't that cool, but does it really matter in this case? I don't think so.

Besides, once Li'sar gets involved in the following scenarios, we can make it more clear that there are other versions of the same story and drop a subtle hint or two that maybe everything hasn't been told yet.

***

EDIT:

And yeah, I'll really try to start posting detailed feedback ASAP. The first little detail which comes to mind is that in the beginning of Elves Besieged, it takes a while before Konrad gets to say his first line and the player to even see his portrait. In the old one, he opens the dialogue right after the narrator message, whereas in the new one we first see Galdrad and Chantal talking, then the narrator tell what Konrad's thinking, then Delfador and Galdrad speak some more, and only then does Konrad manage to speak his first line, which is also the only thing he says during the whole cutscene.

Now, I think it's ok that he isn't immediately the center of attention, but I think he should say something directly after the narrator tells us what he's thinking and Delfador has delivered his line. I'd suggest trimming Delfador's line down to just "It is not your fault, lad. It was I who brought you here." and have Konrad respond to that before they all start prompting him to get going.

Also, I think it feels a bit odd for Galdrad to call Konrad "My Prince" since, after all, he's not their prince. The elves are of course protecting him with their lives and all that, but that's because they're allies, not because the elves hold any allegiance to him as such. I think it's likely you didn't intend "My Prince" to come off that way, but to me it seems like that'd be a common interpretation.

[Temuchin Khan]

...I don't see much need to write it from anyone's perspective in particular; it's what Konrad has been told...

What if it were rewritten from Konrad's point of view?

"When the command reached Delfador, he stole into Weldyn's palace and secreted away me, Konrad, the youngest of Garard II's nephews, saving me from the very clutches of death."

Any other references to Konrad in the intro would likewise have to be adjusted.

However, this approach would have two advantages:

1) It would get people interested in the character of Konrad more quickly

2) It would completely sidestep our whole discussion about whether to have a lying narrator.

[vodot]

What if it were rewritten from Konrad's point of view?

Initially I like this; and it would only have to be from that point in the intro on. Maybe one or two more self-references, tops. I think it could work.

Now, I think it's ok that he isn't immediately the center of attention, but I think he should say something directly after the narrator tells us what he's thinking and Delfador has delivered his line. I'd suggest trimming Delfador's line down to just "It is not your fault, lad. It was I who brought you here." and have Konrad respond to that before they all start prompting him to get going.

Also, I think it feels a bit odd for Galdrad to call Konrad "My Prince" since, after all, he's not their prince. The elves are of course protecting him with their lives and all that, but that's because they're allies, not because the elves hold any allegiance to him as such. I think it's likely you didn't intend "My Prince" to come off that way, but to me it seems like that'd be a common interpretation.

Fair points, both. I'll tweak Konrad's opening remarks to work in some face time. My prince -> prince.

[Temuchin Khan]

What if it were rewritten from Konrad's point of view?

Initially I like this; and it would only have to be from that point in the intro on. Maybe one or two more self-references, tops. I think it could work.

Great! Glad I could help!

[zookeeper]

What if it were rewritten from Konrad's point of view?

Initially I like this; and it would only have to be from that point in the intro on. Maybe one or two more self-references, tops. I think it could work.

Well... then you have to write all other story screens from his point of view as well, don't you? If you start off by establishing Konrad as the narrator, then it's rather ackward if it isn't followed up on. Having him as the narrator isn't an impossible idea, but I'd think that you'd have to invest quite a bit more time into reworking all the rest of the story text so that it's really told from his point of view; why switch to first-person narration if not to explore the narrator's point of view a bit more deeply?

[Temuchin Khan]

Well... then you have to write all other story screens from his point of view as well, don't you? If you start off by establishing Konrad as the narrator, then it's rather ackward if it isn't followed up on. Having him as the narrator isn't an impossible idea, but I'd think that you'd have to invest quite a bit more time into reworking all the rest of the story text so that it's really told from his point of view; why switch to first-person narration if not to explore the narrator's point of view a bit more deeply?

Good point. I hadn't thought of that.

[Groggy_Dice]

Clearly we are looking to age him based on the art redesign -

Who's "we," kemosabe? I never signed on to aging Konrad. While I'm for getting rid of the overtly childish dialog and improving the writing in general, I feel there is just as rich a story that can be told with a 17-year-old Konrad as with a 20 year old. The change simply screws with canon dates to satisfy the personal preferences of one clique of developers.

It's been suggested that teenage protagonists are a cliche. Well, I consider the "quest" storyline to be a fantasy cliche, and would prefer a more straightforward rebellion/civil war campaign. But I don't insist that existing campaigns and canon be disrupted to fit my own taste.

EDIT: S5a: Muff Malal's Peninsula v0.5 (first edit) is up. Groggy (and others) let me know what you think about the added geopolitical trigger. I'm not going to make it a high priority, but I like it as an added flavor-provider later in the campaign.

Yes, I like that addition to the scenario.

But I'm afraid it's back to the brickbats, as I elaborate on what I don't like about your Introduction.

From reading both your latest revision and an earlier version, it's apparent that you had the same plausibility problem with Heir to the Throne that I did. If the old king was not only the rightful ruler, but good and wise as well, why is so much of the army willing to follow the rash, ambitious, treacherous, regicidal, patricidal, EVIL Eldred? Why was Delfador only able to muster a heavily outnumbered force in opposition?

Given that Heir never offers satisfying answers to these questions, you've changed the story so that the army doesn't support Eldred. Only his personal guard attacks Garard, and Eldred's position is so shaky that he prefers to meet Delfador in single combat rather than test the loyalty of his troops.

However, the later scenarios of Delfador's Memoirs attempt to explain Asheviere's ascendancy:

scenario 20: "But Delfador was not alone in having the King’s ear; there was one yet closer to him. The Queen’s power was rising..." One can infer that Asheviere used her influence to convince the king to promote officers more loyal to her and her son than himself.

scenario 21: "Lionel, the King’s most trusted general, had been sent at Asheviere’s request on an errand to Knalga to retrieve the Sceptre of Fire. That mission would cost Lionel his life; and neither Lionel nor Delfador knew that Lionel’s mission had been compromised from the start." I suspect that Asheviere made sure that the expedition consisted of the officers and units most loyal to Garard, removing them from the scene.

"Although the King did reprimand Eldred for his actions, Delfador could sense that the military commanders were solidly behind Eldred and his mother. Asheviere had flattered them and beguiled them with promises of glory and plunder in a coming war." The army was already disaffected.

While your new storyline is slightly more plausible than the old one as it was written, I would prefer that you stick closer to the old plot, incorporating some of the explanation offered in DM. Although there's probably too much to fit all of it in, it would be possible to allude to some of this.

Another possible motive: "Living in the field while his father attended to matters of state in Weldyn, Eldred had gained much popularity in the army."

Also, the elves don't appear to have been at the Ford of Abez, despite their alliance with Wesnoth. That's not surprising, given Eldred's incursion into their territory. But perhaps: "Word of the elvish refusal shook the faith of the army's commanders in Garard and his policy of elvish alliance."

If you still have trouble seeing how the army could support a patricidal coup, think of historical examples. The one that comes to mind is how Absalom was able to win over most of the tribes of Israel, and force his father David to flee from Jerusalem. Only through skilled leadership was King David able to defeat Absalom's larger force.

[Gambit]

The change simply screws with canon dates to satisfy the personal preferences of one clique of developers.

Also known as: the people who make the game.

The change is happening. No point arguing about it.

[vodot]

But I'm afraid it's back to the brickbats, as I elaborate on what I don't like about your Introduction.

Alright, I confess: I googled 'brickbat' :)

...stick closer to the old plot [argument from DM + Hebraic history] (nice!)

Well, its something to consider for the 2nd major edit. I think, though, that even my slightly adjusted plot is in full agreement with your cited parts of DM. The DM textual events would be happening and would be necessary to pull of even the minimal coup from my intro.

I did try, at first, to simply write more plausibility into the plot as it stood (e.g., queen/son actually did turn the army against him), but I couldn't do it in less than a new pane of text, because it seemed almost equally implausible to me that a king known for his wisdom would have allowed this to happen + commanders would go along. Yet not impossible; and the Israelite reference is more or less on the mark.

What does everyone else think? I'm willing to give this another spin and see if I can produce something concise; though I'm going to be focusing on chapter 2 for a while.

EDIT: S5b Isle of the Damned v0.72 is up!

[zookeeper]

Ok, here's my thoughts about the intro.

I think it still delves too deeply into Eldred. I just see it as very unnecessary (almost a distraction, even) to explain how exactly he betrayed the king and got the army to follow him; it's past history, not really relevant to the actual plot of the campaign and he's going to die afterwards anyway.

Now, if you don't mind, here's an example of the kind of focus I think the intro should rather have. Note that it's not supposed to be finished text, as it's more or less just a copy-pasted mix of your version and the original. However, it's also closer to the original than yours in most places, which hopefully isn't very offensive or anything considering the applaudable effort you've been putting into this.

Spoiler:

[story]
[part]
music=revelation.ogg
story= _ "In the twenty-eighth year of the reign of Garard II, king of Wesnoth, the kingdom was plunged into a bitter war with the Orcs of the North."
background=maps/wesnoth.png
[/part]
[part]
# wmllint: local spelling Galcadar
story= _ "The orcish host encamped at Galcadar by the ford of Abez, threatening the crossings and settlements beyond. The king rode out to meet them; he himself led the left flank, and the crown prince Eldred commanded the right."
background=story/httt_story1.jpg
[/part]
[part]
story= _ "Eldred was a capable leader, persuasive in speech and subtle in thought. He was also impatient— and ambitious. Over long years the evil counsel of those close to him had turned his heart to bitterness and treachery. In the heat of battle, Eldred’s men turned on the king. And so, Garard was slain in battle that day, along with his brother and all his sons but Eldred."
background=story/httt_story2.jpg
[/part]
[part]
story= _ "Garard’s queen, Asheviere, looked on with glee, having come to watch the battle from a nearby hill. Her son had proven far more susceptible to her wicked deceptions and flattery, and now her lust for supremacy would be nearly satiated."
background=story/httt_story3.jpg
[/part]
[part]
story= _ "As Asheviere had instructed him, Eldred brokered an uneasy peace with the northern orc warlord. Then the self-crowned prince led his army back to Weldyn, bearing in false sorrow the bodies of his brothers and the king."
background=maps/wesnoth.png
[/part]
[part]
story= _ "But Garard's archmage, Delfador the Great, had been amongst the company ambushed by Eldred. Seeing no hope of survival, he had escaped unseen by the Prince, and now he outrode the west winds and reached Weldyn first, where he mustered a small force of loyalists to confront the prince and challenge his claim to the throne."
background=story/httt_story4.jpg
[/part]
[part]
story= _ "Eldred made war upon Delfador and his forces with his mother’s advice ringing in his ears: <i>“Fight no one great or small except the old mage, whose head should be severed from his shoulders.”</i>"
background=story/httt_story4.jpg
[/part]
[part]
story= _ "And Eldred did indeed meet Delfador face-to-face in battle, in the hinterlands near Tath. Sword clashed against staff, as the wise old mage fought the brash young warrior."
background=story/httt_story5.jpg
[/part]
[part]
story= _ "In the end Delfador’s men were defeated and routed, but Asheviere found her son’s lifeless body, fixed to the ground by the great mage’s staff."
background=story/httt_story6.jpg
[/part]
[part]
story= _ "Asheviere herself then took command of the army and led it back to Weldyn, where she painted Delfador a great conspirator and worker of evil, presenting the dead prince and the betrayed king as evidence of his treachery. Knowing that the king’s young nephews were next in line to the throne, she secretly ordered them all killed along with nobles and lords loyal to Garard's memory. With seeming reluctance, she assumed the crown and declared herself Queen of Wesnoth."
background=maps/wesnoth.png
[/part]
[part]
story= _ "However, when the command had reached Delfador, he had stolen into Weldyn's palace and secreted away Konrad, the youngest of Garard II's nephews, saving him from the very clutches of death."
background=story/httt_story7.jpg
[/part]
[part]
story= _ "Fleeing to the Aethenwood beyond the southwestern border of Wesnoth, Delfador raised the child Konrad under the protection of the elves, sadly watching Asheviere's tyrannical rule over the land."
background=story/httt_story8.jpg
[/part]
[part]
story= _ "Twenty harrowing years later, Asheviere has turned her attention to one of the last bastions of resistance on her borders. Seduced by her bounty, an elf has betrayed Delfador's location to her ear, and in triumph she has mobilized a horde of orcs and surrounded the wood where the Crown Prince has lain hidden these many years. The day that the rebels have long feared has come."
background=maps/wesnoth.png
[/part]
[/story]

Also, Asheviere isn't necessarily unaware of Delfador's and Konrad's whereabouts, but simply hasn't had the resources to attack the elves sooner, and probably didn't see Konrad as a threat due to his age and the fact that only Delfador and the elves claim he's the heir anyway.

Finally, "last bastions of resistance" should probably be worded differently, although I'm not sure how; the elves haven't really been resisting her all these years, more like they've simply had nothing to do with each other. I think the situation is basically that the elves have been unwilling to try to wage a full-scale war to overthrow a Wesnothian ruler no matter how much they dislike her as long as she doesn't attack them, and she hasn't. So, Delfador and Konrad have been more or less stuck until now; Delfador is a friend of the elves but not their leader and thus couldn't have asked them to go to war for him, so there's been no way for him to try to put Konrad on the throne. However, now that Asheviere has actually grown strong enough to finally launch an attack at the elves (<insert reason>), the elves probably start to see things differently and are willing to supply Konrad with an army in the hopes that he'll defeat Asheviere. However, they've sheltered Konrad all these years primarily because Delfador is their friend and perhaps because Konrad is the heir of Garard who was their ally, not because they've put their hopes on him (until now).

All that should really have been said earlier already, but those are the kind of subtleties which don't immediately come to mind. I can only hope it's more useful than frustrating.