Dunefolk Lore - Revised

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ghype
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Dunefolk Lore - Revised

Post by ghype »



Hello everyone, hope your all well. Quiet some time passed and some new information turned up.

This will help us to finalize the dunefolk once for all to a degree they feel like a natural part of this game and still leaves a lot of gaps to be explored in future or filled with UMC content. Thus my current goal is to establish the most important things and not get lost in details. It does not mean the we disregard anything that was already said, we just take a step back and make use of all the was said up to this point in order to fill the new frame we are giving the Dunefolk.
Furthermore, I am gonna remodeling the the main post in order to keep track of the state as it was very hard to keep track of the data the deeper we went into discussing details.

The big rework of the mainline campaign into arc is not happening.

This has many implications, but here are the most important two for this matter:
  • It means that the old continent remains, humans originate from there and there have not been humans on the great continent before Haldric arrived there. Considering that, Dunefolk and Haldrics people share same ancestors which may be irrelevant as it could go back millennial or an insignificant large amount of time.
  • The Humans (Haldrics Ancestor & Dunefolk) inhabited the Old Continents together with the Orcs. With the events of the Gree Isle, some Lich-Lords have had to come back to the old continent and may remained. That could be the first Dunefolk encounter undead and necromancy, which could lead for whatever reasons to a mistrust of magic or just emphasize the distrust if it started with some internal conflicts.

LordBob is planning by next year to draw the dunefolk Portraits.
This is not directly linked to the development of Dunefolks lore. However, he may requiere soon enough a consolidated version of the Lore to know what they are about. Also consolidating the Lore goes in hand with the development of one mainline dunefolk campaign which I will open up the discussion once we settled on a mainframe for the dunefolk lore.




Considering the new information, many questions come up. Before that though, I want to redirect your attention to another three important things regarding core Lore that has already been consolidated and does not need to be discussed further in this thread:


We already explored a lot of context on how Dunefolk interacts with Wesnoth and the factions there.

This thread "Expanding the Great Continent" has a consolidated map of the yet unexplored southern parts of the the Great Continent and the threads discussion goes so far to show how these factions might interact with Dunefolk and with each other. This will become relevant once Campaign development commences again. I will display the maps in a spoiler just to get you familiar with it. One shows the general look and the other the influnce area of the Dunefolk.

Spoiler:



We already discussed how Dunefolk work on economical, social and hierarchical planes work in the mainline timeline.
I will add it as a spoiler as well just as a reminder. Not to mention all of the trivia and secondary lore we already established in all the threads which are easy (if not flawlessly) and well documented. With this I just want to show that the main things that have to be consolidated is What happened on the Old Continent and Why they emigrated to the Great Continent and Wheter they already had these political/social structures before they came or if they got established after their arrival. This it is:
Spoiler:

We already consolidated how Dunefolks mistrust towards magic is grounded in their philosophies and systems of beliefs.

Here is a quick reminder to the fact that we have the reason of their distrust and how it developed into a key element of their every day life - starting from political to economical and social planes. In the spoiler you can read it again:
Spoiler:




Since we got all that cleared now we have to find answers to the questions mentioned earlier.

What happened on the Old Continent?
  • While it is gonna be mostly context for the campaign or Wiki, the events on the Old Continent might help explaining Dunefolk and shed a bit more light to the yet mysterious Old Continent.
  • We know that humans, orcs and Lich Lords rumored the Old Continent according to Wiki. While the Wiki for "Haldrics People" and "Lich-Lords" are a bit unclear/contradicotry, one can expect that the Dunefolk had to deal with these factions (loy human, wesfolk, lich-lords, orcs) to some degree.
  • Haldric's People left the Old continent some unknown time before 200BW.
  • Around 200BW there must have been a big scale war on the Old Continent between the Wesfolk/Lich-Lords and another faction. That other faction presumably is a human faction
  • We know that Haldrics people were the first humans to arrive at the Great Continent. That means that Dunefolk could not arrive before 12BW, it would be more likely to be a lot later.


With all of this empty space yet to be filled regarding the Old Continent and all the established Lore for the Dunefolk Golden Age on the Great Continent, I think we can draw together a nice line from one to the other ... Now we could say that Dunefolk might as well has nothing to do with any of that and are just yet another faction that evolved independently of all the mainline events. For that I want to quote the human race description:
"The race of men is an extremely diverse one. Although they originally came from the Old Continent, men have spread all over the world and split into many different cultures and races. "
This description also allows us to perceive the Dunefolk as just another human sub-faction of the humans of the Old Continent just the same way Haldric's People were. If go on with that, we could further explore the lore of "the Ruby of Fire" as a powerful mineral with the possibly of other stones expressed in an idea that resonated well in the last thread. Here a quote by Celtic_Minstrel:
"...the existence of a Ruby of Fire certainly does make one wonder if there are stones of other elements – an Emerald of Earth, or a Sapphire of Air, or an Opal of Water? Not something that needs to be decided, though – it could be left open."
. This goes hand in hand with exploring further Lore of the Lich-Lords and the Wesfolk, more specifically of Lich-Lord Jeyvan, Lenvan and Caror, possibly in there human form...



In older discussions that we concluded that the Dunefolk started out as tribal faction only and through a cataclysmic event they allied themselves into an union to better defend themselves. That cataclysmic event becomes catalyst for their mistrust towards magic in general. (About this one can read more in the old thread under "Origin".) If we go on with this Idea, for all what we know, some time before 200BW a big scale war between the Wesfolk and another faction happened. The Wesfolk, a faction using magic in form of necromancy, could very well fit as Dunefolks defining antagonist on the Old Continent. While Haldric's People learned to use magic in the progress of fighting the Lich-Lords/Wesfolk, the Dunefolk decided against the use magic in their encounter of the Wesfolk/Lich-Lords.


in order to conclude ...

This is how I can see the Dunefolk as a key element of the Old Continent:
  • The human race on the Old Continent consists of at least 3 human sub-faction that we know of. They had to deal with one and another to some degree and were at least aware of each other. We got the Wesfolk, the Dunefolks and the humans where Haldric's People Emerged from.
  • The Wesfolk are closely tied to the undead Lich-Lords which both have detailed lore documentation also referencing the old continent. The Lich-Lords were a ruling class of liches who controlled the Wesfolk. While on the Old Continent, the Wesfolk spent many generations learning the dark arts of necromancy. Motivated by their desire for immortality, the elite of the Wesfolk became Lich-Lords upon death, while the lesser Wesfolk became their undead servants.
  • The Dunefolks are many smaller, self controlled tribes rumoring the more desolated areas of the Old Continent and surviving by awareness of natural occurring resources and trading with other tribes or factions.
  • The "other humans", (Yumi referenced them in the big rework as Valefolk, i might as well as a placeholder name), which Haldric's People emerged from, are living in a hereditary nobility which is the closest governing system that recent ancestors and descendants of Haldric's People used.
As referenced enough times, the Wiki talks about a war the the Wesfolk lost, but it never says actually what exactly happened. But it must have been very devastating. We could assume that the Ruby of Fire was already in use of the Wesfolk and Lich-Lords were strong on their own and they still got defeated.

Since we are talking about the Old Continent as a Continent, conflicts between all the factions wouldn't appear as often as on a dense island such as Green Island or the very developed Wesnoth, but one can assume that smaller conflicts where happening. Wheter it was the orcs attacking humans or the Valefolk blocking the dunefolk trading routes or the mindless corpses rumoring around or a wesfolk apprentice encountered by some tribe... some of that most likely would have happened from time to time. The war we however want to define has to do with the Wesfolk and their Lich-Lords. Either the Wesfolk/Lich-Lords were attacked and destroyed or they were attacking somebody and got repelled and counter-attacked. Wiki references this event just so much:
"Though they were powerful, the bulk of their military might was destroyed in a war, and despite holding out for as long as possible, the Lich-Lord Lenvan eventually led a small contingent of refugees east across the Great Ocean to the Green Isle."
It also get's referenced as Wesfolk War:
"The Lich-Lords lost the Wesfolk a war on the Old Continent,.."
So what ever happened, the wesfolk was in the focus of that war.

Now there could be a lot of speculation on how the events of that war could have been unfolded. That's also one part that we can debate together. Without going into details, I'll just gonna mention the main events of one possible scenario:

Dunefolk Origin
  • In the Dunefolk Tribes, the undead is known from stories and tales. Not all tribes have seen undead or encountered living dead corpses. Some Tribes only know them from tales from wandering merchants
  • While not as sophisticated as the Luminaries , the tribes wise man and elder still kept track of ancient stories and myths. One such could be in interest of the Lich-Lord.
  • Considering the corruptness of the Ruby of Fire, that was in their possession, it is not inconsiderable that they would have wanted to seek even more power. Regardless of how strong the ruby of fire already is
  • The Dunefolk ancient tales *could* mention the existence of another such powerful stone. How the Dunefolk relate to such items of interest can be left open
  • In order to locate evidences of these artefacts, the ruling lich-lords send out subordinate wesfolk to check tribe after tribe. some tribes could fence the wesfolk/undead off while some couldn't and got overpowered. This mostly depended on their knowledge of undead/wesfolk and wether they already encountered undead and not. If the Lich-Lords subordinates were successfully overpowering a Dunefolk tribe, they reanimated the dead Dunefolk and followed the next lead.
  • This happened over the course of couple years which led to the ever shrinking Dunefolk to raise awareness of the undead doings. Especially terrifying was when the tribes have had to face more and more undead Dunefolk.
  • the Dunefolk tribes become of aware of the undead threat and their evil intentions. Tribe leaders/consul started to organize and communicate more, but slowly as they were too scattered.
  • Once the lich-lords found substantial evidence of location of scrolls or individuals who may bring them closer to what they were looking for, they started to assemble a massive horde of wesfolk and undead, with the plan to eradicate what ever lays in their way to find more.
  • Words of that was brought to the tribes, which led them to rally up all the remaining Dunefolk and allies (which could have been Valefolk as well or other factions as possibly some friendly Orc Tribes). Spreading the word of the ever growing undead presence. Together with the Valefolk they plan to end the dead before they Lich-Lord can eradicate them.
Thats how the Wesfolk and the Lich-Lords got into a war ...
  • While the undead was not strong on their own, the difficulty was to protect as many lives of their own so none could be resurrected as an undead. Herbalists helped the wounded to prevent them from dying. Since every of the Dunefolk tribes were more or less unique it was hard to find a weak point in the tribes as they function just as well alone, as long they were not outnumbered and unprepared. Even the Valefolk was terrified how of an well they fought, given they have have the intelligence of a human, but the physical endurance , not exact, but comparable to an orc due to the harsher conditions they deal with in the more desolate locations.
  • The Wesfolk/Lich-Lords were surprised in how much they underestimated the Dunefolk as they only encountered them in tribes. That didn't stopped them using the Ruby of Fire. Devastating fire balls killed many of the Dunefolks and Valefolks. But that wasn't enough. As the humans cut through the undead and the fire balls and the fire also hit Wesfolk just as much, the Wesfolk lost moral as they saw that the Lich-Lords had no care wether they hit the enemy or their own. At the same time, the Dunefolk leader knew that if they do not win this war/battle, the undead would just raise all the dead and finish what ever was left of the Dune & Valefolk
  • Eventually, the Lich-Lords seek to flee with the ruby of fire and a small group of Wesfolk, while betraying the remaining Wesfolk
And thats how we get to the events we already know of from the Wiki Time line ...
  • After the retreat of the Wesfolk/Lich-Lords and the remaining Undead/Wesfolk were defeated, the aftermath was more then devastating. The Fires kept on burning and spreading for decades. Before Leaving, the Lich-lords used the power of the ruby to curse the land and dunes with never ending fire for every flame ignited by the ruby.
  • The land was corrupted and only ash and sand is left which once started to spread, never stopped to do so. As every dessert grows over the time, so did the harsh conditions. Vital rivers were and lakes were drowned by the sand.
  • The aftermath of the war and the every growing harsher conditions forced the Dunefolks to form classed groups such as guilds for more and more fields (trading, alchemy, ...). Over time, they developed into the Dunefolk we know of from today.


This was one example how Dunefolk could have evolved form the already given context to be found in the Old Continent. I cannot stretch enough how much this is an example of an Origin Story. I wish we can find something the majority can identify with and use this to ignite the Dunefolk conversation and slowly finish the book we started a long time ago...

Comments and thoughts wished.

Thanks for your time!
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Re: Dunefolk Lore - Revised

Post by Celtic_Minstrel »

I don't have any specific comments on the topic right now, other than misgivings on the term "khal" / "khalai", but I'm posting to make sure I get notified of further updates.
Khalai morphology:
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Re: Dunefolk Lore - Revised

Post by Sur_191 »

If anyone is interested, I wrote a campaign about Wesfolk-Dunefolk war (Wrath of the Lich Lords), although I didn't finish it. I wrote it before Dunefolk rework so it's not up to date, but maybe something could be salvaged for current lore.
Creator of Wrath of the Lich Lords (abandoned).
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Re: Dunefolk Lore - Revised

Post by Xalzar »

Oops I'm here
ghype wrote: November 18th, 2020, 8:48 pm The big rework of the mainline campaign into arc is not happening
Interesting. The mysterious project mysteriously derails. :hmm:
I have no intention to badmouth about it, I just don't like apparently unneccessary secrecy very much. :?
ghype wrote: November 18th, 2020, 8:48 pm It means that the old continent remains, humans originate from there and there have not been humans on the great continent before Haldric arrived there...
...Dunefolk and Haldrics people share same ancestors...
...The Humans (Haldrics Ancestor & Dunefolk) inhabited the Old Continents together with the Orcs...
Checks out.
ghype wrote: November 18th, 2020, 8:48 pm With the events of the Gree Isle, some Lich-Lords have had to come back to the old continent and may remained. That could be the first Dunefolk encounter undead and necromancy...
We may need to think about this a bit more, right now I cannot see why they should have, after having lost a massive war in those lands.
ghype wrote: November 18th, 2020, 8:48 pm I will display the maps in a spoiler just to get you familiar with it. One shows the general look and the other the influnce area of the Dunefolk.
Just saying, attaching a map displaying all the factions in the southern lands may prove useful for discussion too.
ghype wrote: November 18th, 2020, 8:48 pm The Ruling Council's members are the leader of each City. Depending on how many we create this number could rank between 10 and 20 members. The leader of each city is chosen in some manner depending on the city. They might be elected, they might be the leader of an elected political party, or they might inherit the position...
Great. Gives the possibility to differentiate the different Dunefolk cities and freedom for campaign makers to use different types of government.
ghype wrote: November 18th, 2020, 8:48 pm The Luminary Council's members are either all Luminaries from every city (if we assume that there are not many). In order to become a Luminary, you have to have contributed in one way or another to the Sciences of the Dunes...
Goo since it highlights the peculiar scientific mindset of the Dunefolk which is not so common in the Wesnoth universe (only Dwarves come close to that).
ghype wrote: November 18th, 2020, 8:48 pm The Khalai...
Some passages of the process of becoming a Khalai are a bit unclear, but I got the idea. Question: are the other Khala, those not promoted to Paragon, included in the Ruling Council?
ghype wrote: November 18th, 2020, 8:48 pm Four elemental forces that each bleed through into the 'material plane'.
...
The Sun bleeds through and creates the scorched deserts.
The Seas bleed through and create the fertile coasts and river valleys.
The Winds bleed through and create the windswept highlands.
The Deeps bleed through and create the mineral-rich underground.
The Aether has been suggested by some Dunefolk scholars as a fifth 'elemental force' ... granting the sentient species of Irdya the power to harness magic...
This is not a widely-accepted theory. Rather, magic is seen as an unnatural force outside of the 'great circle'...
Cultists would subscribe to the theory that Aether is an 'elemental force'...
The Luminaries would subscribe to the theory that Aether is a corruption, and so would want to keep it outlawed.
I like the general natural philosophy and the debate about the different theories open the possibility of heretical magic practitioners (not necessarily evil) and even Dunefolk necromancers. All things useful to create reasons for conflict and villains in campaigns.
ghype wrote: November 18th, 2020, 8:48 pm Around 200BW there must have been a big scale war on the Old Continent between the Wesfolk/Lich-Lords and another faction. That other faction presumably is a human faction
Not necessarily humans.
ghype wrote: November 18th, 2020, 8:48 pm We know that Haldrics people were the first humans to arrive at the Great Continent. That means that Dunefolk could not arrive before 12BW, it would be more likely to be a lot later.
Not necessarily, they could be the first to arrive in the region, while the first Dunefolk could have already arrived in the south. The main source of this information are the Elves, but distance could be the reason why their statement was wrong. I'm not opposed to the Dunefolk arriving later, just saying.
ghype wrote: November 18th, 2020, 8:48 pm ...the existence of a Ruby of Fire certainly does make one wonder if there are stones of other elements...
My headcanon says this is the case, and those stones could possibly be the remains of primordial elementals who shaped the world. Just an idea to explain their power and importance (and possibly their evil/chaotic influence, if we take as an example the Ruby of Fire), my main point is that I would agree with the existence of other stones. That said, it's better to not revolve the campaigns plots too much around macguffins. Better keep the story grounded for the most part, we already have the Fall for global apocalypse.
ghype wrote: November 18th, 2020, 8:48 pm In older discussions that we concluded that the Dunefolk started out as tribal faction only and through a cataclysmic event they allied themselves into an union to better defend themselves. That cataclysmic event becomes catalyst for their mistrust towards magic in general... The Wesfolk, a faction using magic in form of necromancy, could very well fit as Dunefolks defining antagonist on the Old Continent. While Haldric's People learned to use magic in the progress of fighting the Lich-Lords/Wesfolk, the Dunefolk decided against the use magic in their encounter of the Wesfolk/Lich-Lords.
ghype wrote: November 18th, 2020, 8:48 pm The Dunefolks are many smaller, self controlled tribes rumoring the more desolated areas of the Old Continent and surviving by awareness of natural occurring resources and trading with other tribes or factions.
How could they counter the magic of the Lich Lords? Haldric's folks were heavily struggling before they started using magic. An they were not as advanced as they are in the present form I suspect, given their tribal ways. An interesting dilemma to explore.
ghype wrote: November 18th, 2020, 8:48 pm The "other humans", (Yumi referenced them in the big rework as Valefolk, i might as well as a placeholder name)...
That's new to me... The name suggests they lived in a valley or in flatlands, it makes me ask how they survived on the Green Isle only in the end (maybe the massive war destroyed the main land of their kingdom).
ghype wrote: November 18th, 2020, 8:48 pm We could assume that the Ruby of Fire was already in use of the Wesfolk and Lich-Lords were strong on their own and they still got defeated.
We can safely assume so as per the "Rise of Wesnoth".
ghype wrote: November 18th, 2020, 8:48 pm Dunefolk Origin...
Interesting, but I think maybe it's best to not detail the events too much. Even the factions in war could be left unknown - except for the few factions we want to include - it could have been a continental war, bigger than anything described in other campaigns.
In general, I think we shouldn't be hasty to include necessarily the "stones" plot and put too much importance on the Dunefolk. They could have really only been caught in the crossfire, or obligated to take a side in the war and then they suffered too much from it and they scattered.
(Btw, - crazy idea - imagine if they were allies of the Wesfolk! And then they were too used as undead fodder as the war was being lost/the atrocities of their own side in the war made them reconsider the use of magic :twisted: )
ghype wrote: November 18th, 2020, 8:48 pm After the retreat of the Wesfolk/Lich-Lords and the remaining Undead/Wesfolk were defeated, the aftermath was more then devastating. The Fires kept on burning and spreading for decades. Before Leaving, the Lich-lords used the power of the ruby to curse the land and dunes with never ending fire for every flame ignited by the ruby.
The land was corrupted and only ash and sand is left which once started to spread, never stopped to do so. As every dessert grows over the time, so did the harsh conditions. Vital rivers were and lakes were drowned by the sand.
I love the neverending fires, even without the need of a curse. Simply the consequences of the Ruby out of control.
N.B.: remember Lich Lords and in general undead for some reason apparently avoid handling the Ruby directly. Just a thing to keep in mind.

Thoughts? Nice work! ;)
Some additional work must still be done to perfect the background package, but the draft is valid IMO!
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Re: Dunefolk Lore - Revised

Post by ghype »

Glad to see you here Xalzar.
Xalzar wrote: November 28th, 2020, 1:08 am ghype wrote: ↑November 18th, 2020, 8:48 pm
With the events of the Gree Isle, some Lich-Lords have had to come back to the old continent and may remained. That could be the first Dunefolk encounter undead and necromancy...

We may need to think about this a bit more, right now I cannot see why they should have, after having lost a massive war in those lands.
Good you went through that in detail as I wrote this post in multiple days and in various stages of research. What I wrote there in the beginning has to be adjusted as it contradicts what I wrote earlier. That paragraph makes no longer sense. I am hiding the corrected version in a spoiler and change it in the main paragraph as well.
Spoiler:
Xalzar wrote: November 28th, 2020, 1:08 am Just saying, attaching a map displaying all the factions in the southern lands may prove useful for discussion too.
I am not sure, but there is the map actually included. It should only show that a lot of time and effort was already put into that area of context for those that are yet not familiar with the stage of Dunefolk lore development.
Xalzar wrote: November 28th, 2020, 1:08 am Some passages of the process of becoming a Khalai are a bit unclear, but I got the idea. Question: are the other Khala, those not promoted to Paragon, included in the Ruling Council?
I would summarize the stages of becoming a Khal like this:
  • getting scouted as a teen by Luminaries/Luminary Missionaries
  • trained in special camps for combat/military expertise
  • public arena battles (for life & death) between the trainees
  • remaining are the Khalai
If needed we can add a passage where it states that if you do not get elected as paragon, you enjoy the same state of nobility as before, but they can accept roles as diplomatic/military/luminary missionary which is an important function. They are the ones that are trusted with important mission regarding what ever the Ruling Council decide.

Xalzar wrote: November 28th, 2020, 1:08 am ghype wrote: ↑November 18th, 2020, 8:48 pm
Around 200BW there must have been a big scale war on the Old Continent between the Wesfolk/Lich-Lords and another faction. That other faction presumably is a human faction

Not necessarily humans.
While it indeed doesn't have had to be a human faction, for the purpose of developing I choose them to be one.
It was multiply stated in the old discussion by devs that other factions and races (yet unknown) may to be found in the Old Continent or southern part. Creating new conflict with existing factions or creating entirely new factions/races goes above and beyond what I am trying to do with Dunefolk. That's why I resorted to
them.
Xalzar wrote: November 28th, 2020, 1:08 am Not necessarily, they could be the first to arrive in the region, while the first Dunefolk could have already arrived in the south. The main source of this information are the Elves, but distance could be the reason why their statement was wrong. I'm not opposed to the Dunefolk arriving later, just saying.


I am aware of that, however, when it comes to elves ,or dwarfs for that matter, I think they have some sort of information flux between their own race. Dwarves and Elves are found in the southern part as well. So they might could have arrived a year or so before Haldric arrived, basically the time it would require for the information to arrive (what ever way that may have been)
Xalzar wrote: November 28th, 2020, 1:08 am Dunefolk Origin...
All in all, what I wanted to show is how the dunefolk could be "squezed" in the already existing frame of Lore revolving around the Old Continent. I also might say, that as it seems, the wiki pages are very flexible (Yumi told me) and not even complete. How the Dunefolk backstory will look like, will probably depend on the first Dunefolk Campaign that gets mainlined.
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Re: Dunefolk Lore - Revised

Post by Tom_Of_Wesnoth »

The Map

Looking at the map, the main thing that strikes me is that the Ashland Desert pretty much cuts the Dunefolk lands in two. You've got one settled region around the Bay of Clouds, another along the Unnamed River in the south, and the Ashland Desert runs right in-between the two. There's no major waterway connecting the two, and land travel through a desert is, though possible, far from ideal for trade. The easiest option for the Dunefolk, then, is likely to be running shipping along the western coast of the continent.

Only, of course, we don't want to give them an easy option, because this is a video game. That means we're going to want enemies. Territorial Naga? Drakes who hunt Dunefolk for glory and wealth? Pirates? A return of the Sea Orcs? So now rather than a nice, safe shipping route, we've now got dangerous waters that only the most ambitious - or foolish - of captains dare to sail through.

Duberah, at the entrance to the Bay of Clouds, is now starting to look very important. Firstly, its likely to be a major naval base - the Bay of Clouds is central to the success of the northern Dunefolk, so they'd naturally want to protect it and keep dangers out. Secondly, high-risk, high-reward shipping along the western coast would flow through the city, and so you'd get a concentration of hardened captains, ambitious mercenaries, and wealthy merchants all in one place.

Moving into the Bay, Th'arwya and Serrul look like the two major cities in the region, one on either side of the Bay of Clouds - and so, it would make sense for them to be rivals. That creates a plot hook, where the Council of Rulers is paralysed by the antagonism between two of the most influential cities.

Down on the Unnamed River, we see that the river really is key to the region. Of the six cities south of the Ashland Desert (I'm assuming Mogrokh isn't a Dunefolk city) all but one are along the river. Wealth and power are likely to flow downstream to Al-Shizirad, and I think for this region we want to stick to one powerful city if we go with the rivalry in the Bay of Clouds, so that works.

In the Dunefolk lore there's already a split between the urbanised Dunefolk and the nomads, and I think the map is pretty well-suited to that. There's plenty of room for the nomads in the Ashland Desert and the Sandy Wastes, and possibly also out towards the western coast. Their relationship with the two clusters of urbanised Dunefolk could lead to plot hooks.

The Ruling Council(s)

I like this section. Having a Ruling Council who elect a Paragon to hold power over them sounds almost like the Roman concept of electing a Dictator during times of war. And I can see plenty of room for intrigue here - naturally, all of the powerful factions within the Dunefolk are going to want to elect a Paragon who is at least friendly to them, at best in their pocket. On the other hand, the Paragon is likely to want to centralise power into his own hands as much as possible, potentially by exploiting or inventing a crisis that demands a strong military leader.

What Happened on the Old Continent?

I've said before, and I still think, that we don't really need to answer this. Leave it open-ended as some kind of vague catastrophe - ideally involving magic, and so feeding into the Dunefolk's anti-magic outlook - and give room for UMC to explore what might have happened.

If we do go ahead and detail it, though, I'm not sure tying things too closely to the characters and events of TROW is a good idea, purely because the Wesnothians don't seem to know of the Dunefolk. I'd keep contact between them on the Old Continent limited, personally.

Leaving behind a ruined homeland that they can never return to is good, I like the apocalyptic vibes to the ideas there. An undead empire thriving in the ruined wastes could be cool.

'Rubies of Fire' for the other elements

My hesitation here is damage types. Fire is fire, of course. But Earth and Water would both likely want Impact, while Air - ? Cold? Blade?
If presented with the opportunity, I would take great pleasure in becoming a world ruler.
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Elven
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Re: Dunefolk Lore - Revised

Post by Elven »

i will make "how to play" dunefolk 1.15.x as well as a completely new campaign
Creator of Greenie knižnica and Greenie Linux and Wesnoth unofficial LiveCD; Slovak/Czech translator and creator of many campaigns. Everything is here on one place.
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Elven
Posts: 165
Joined: February 3rd, 2008, 12:02 am
Location: Slovakia
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Re: Dunefolk Lore - Revised

Post by Elven »

also, if someone can add some informations here, it will be very nice :)

https://wiki.wesnoth.org/Dunefolk
Creator of Greenie knižnica and Greenie Linux and Wesnoth unofficial LiveCD; Slovak/Czech translator and creator of many campaigns. Everything is here on one place.
shevegen
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Joined: June 3rd, 2004, 4:35 pm

Re: Dunefolk Lore - Revised

Post by shevegen »

I like dunefolk. Any Dune-like game effects are fun. :D
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