Bad Moon Rising & Trinity

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averyimaginativename
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Re: Bad Moon Rising & Trinity

Post by averyimaginativename »

1) Possible, Prologue, latest version.

2) 7 - you have to think a bit, but it's not very taxing

3) Clear, except in Darkside - you don't really have to defeat the pursuer.

4) It sets the tone well - despite it being 4am, I want to dive straight into part 2.

5) Bad luck (-12% delivered, +6% received!) in the final scenario left me blocked in completely, with no chance of finishing within the time limit.

6) 8

7) Scenario 2b (Trial) seems a bit pointless. It's incredibly easy and (unless it's referenced later in the campaign) doesn't seem to add much to the story. It either needs fleshing out or dropping. I won the campaign by moving Scarrion to one of the containers, hitting end turn, and only counter attacking.
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Re: Bad Moon Rising & Trinity

Post by doofus-01 »

averyimaginativename wrote:7) Scenario 2b (Trial) seems a bit pointless. It's incredibly easy and (unless it's referenced later in the campaign) doesn't seem to add much to the story. It either needs fleshing out or dropping. I won the campaign by moving Scarrion to one of the containers, hitting end turn, and only counter attacking.
Yeah, it was mostly for experience gathering, in case the player was still level 1. It fits in later, but so much later that the player may not remember it. Maybe it should be disabled for NORMAL and HARD levels, just for there for EASY.

Thanks.
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Re: Bad Moon Rising & Trinity

Post by averyimaginativename »

Enough is Enough

1) Easy, latest wesnoth and campaign versions. Scenario 1 Enough is enough.

2) 9, but should have been 3 (see 5).

3) Perfectly.

4) It's almost the opposite of what I was expecting. A complete change of pace from the prologue, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. The art work hints that the king is related to those blue things somehow, but doesn't give anything away. This alone is a hook for the rest of the campaign.

5) With so many level 0 units, I ignored terrain, and just advanced as quickly as possible to the enemy leader, and lost everyone except Lorenzon and Duval. If I hadn't been so stupid there would have been no real challenge.

6) 5. Distinctly average, but its more important to set the scene in the first scenario, and that is done very well.


The map itself is worth a mention. It's definitely one of the better maps for this sort of setting. Small settlement maps usually look bland, but this one has character.
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Re: Bad Moon Rising & Trinity

Post by averyimaginativename »

1) Scenario three, easy. latest versions.

2) 8

3) Completely

4) Very good. After two easy campaigns I did think this revolution thing was a bit too easy. It's finally made clear that so far you've only been dealing with a tiny fraction of the loyalists and it's not plain sailing after all.

5) The fog. Thieves seemed to know where my fog of war was. Could have been random chance, could be the new AI, but if I left just a couple of hexes I couldn't see through, thieves broke through it. Eventually dealt with by, well, lining up my troops properly. Also, holding the mounted troops at the far side of the river. My royal guard and halberdiers did a lot of the work here - but am I even supposed to have these units at this point? They came from levelled peasants - two from the first scenario, and one from the second.

Also, should have levelled some commandos to assassinate the enemy leaders, but I only one, and one level two. Taking them out with a frontal attack was probably much harder than an assassination would have been.

7) A bit more variety in enemy recruits.
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Re: Bad Moon Rising & Trinity

Post by doofus-01 »

I'm not sure if I'm giving spoilers, so reader beware.
averyimaginativename wrote:The art work hints that the king is related to those blue things somehow, but doesn't give anything away. This alone is a hook for the rest of the campaign.
I have to admit, that would have been a good plot. But that isn't what's going on. If the king looks like one of the blue people, it is because I am a third-rate "artist" - it wasn't intentional. Though one of the other characters is involved with the blue people, but it is not supposed to be too obvious.
averyimaginativename wrote: My royal guard and halberdiers did a lot of the work here - but am I even supposed to have these units at this point? They came from levelled peasants - two from the first scenario, and one from the second.
I'm not sure... It doesn't really follow the story, but from a gameplay/tactics perspective, it is nice, I believe. I can fix it if it just looks like a bug, players just have to let me know.
averyimaginativename wrote:The fog. Thieves seemed to know where my fog of war was. Could have been random chance, could be the new AI, but if I left just a couple of hexes I couldn't see through, thieves broke through it. Eventually dealt with by, well, lining up my troops properly.
The dogs are very helpful with this. They can't fight a thief in the woods, but they can clear fog and keep the thieves on the ice until a runner can catch up.
averyimaginativename wrote:With so many level 0 units, I ignored terrain, and just advanced as quickly as possible to the enemy leader, and lost everyone except Lorenzon and Duval. If I hadn't been so stupid there would have been no real challenge.
I should note that it does help to not get the loyal spearmen killed. They aren't necessary for the campaign, but they do have the "loyal" trait.

Thanks for using the review template.
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Re: Bad Moon Rising & Trinity

Post by averyimaginativename »

If the king looks like one of the blue people, it is because I am a third-rate "artist" - it wasn't intentional.
Third rate artist? One of the things I've liked about this campaign is the art!

He doesn't look like one of the blue things - he looks like whatever they did to Scarrion happened to him too. I'm very, very not an artist, so my "ooh, that looks like Scarrion" might well be just "that was drawn by the same person" to somebody else.
It doesn't really follow the story, but from a gameplay/tactics perspective, it is nice, I believe. I can fix it if it just looks like a bug, players just have to let me know.
The intention to revert to the "old ways" makes sense, but it also makes sense not to not to throw away weapons they already have, right? It would make more sense if the loyals in the first scenario (who are already armed as loyalists) didn't change to Ukians, and the peasants (who aren't armed) advanced to regulars/runners, but that's a nitpick.




Scenarios Fort, and Defend. Fort on 1.3.8, Defend on 1.3.9, latest Wesnoth.

1) Easy

2) 3. Both very easy for a siege, but see 4.

3) Perfectly.

4) Brilliantly written. I thought Duval's suggestion at the end of Fort was a bit over the top, and then what do you know - Lorenzon feels the same way.

Then in defend, I thought it was a bit too easy, and a couple of turns later Lorenzon says it's too easy, and the reinforcements come. Intentional or not, the characters anticipate my thoughts as a player. Also, I like what you did with the enemy castle. Such a simple thing having it to one side instead of the middle. That little change alters your tactics a lot.

5) The unexpected orcs in defend were the only real challenge of the two scenarios, and even then, not a huge one.

6) 7. Easy, but fun nevertheless.

7) These two scenarios are much easier than camp which doesn't seem right for what is supposed to be a massive fight. Perhaps giving more gold to the enemy leader in Fort as he tells his men to rally. Defend, I imagine, is harder to balance being directly related to how well you do in Fort...but I never felt pressured. More Orcs, and bringing the reinforcements in a couple of turns earlier would make all the difference.
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Re: Bad Moon Rising & Trinity

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averyimaginativename wrote:The intention to revert to the "old ways" makes sense, but it also makes sense not to not to throw away weapons they already have, right? It would make more sense if the loyals in the first scenario (who are already armed as loyalists) didn't change to Ukians, and the peasants (who aren't armed) advanced to regulars/runners, but that's a nitpick.
I see what you mean. I should take another look at that, I think I'll make some changes. Thanks.
averyimaginativename wrote:2) 3. Both very easy for a siege, but see 4.
On normal/middle difficulty, I found these to not be so easy. If it is too easy, I should change it. But the easy mode is supposed to be not-frustrating. Sounds like easy-mode "Camp" scenario needs to be toned down.
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Re: Bad Moon Rising & Trinity

Post by averyimaginativename »

On normal/middle difficulty, I found these to not be so easy. If it is too easy, I should change it. But the easy mode is supposed to be not-frustrating. Sounds like easy-mode "Camp" scenario needs to be toned down.
Camp feels like you're facing an entire army, but Fort feels like you're facing a few stragglers. Adjusting either or both would work. It doesn't have to be by much, just Fort should feel like the bigger fight.


Guardian:
2) 7, but this could vary between a 2 and an 8 depending on how you recruit, and whether or not you go back to the keep when you know what you're facing.
3) Vague but sufficient.
4) Shouting at Lorenzon not to be so stupid at the end of the scenario. Emotional attachment to the characters well and truly established.
5) Sent a commando too far ahead, and lost him to the nasty surprise halfway through, and did the same thing again straight afterwards with another and lost him to the second nasty surprise. I only had two, so time to play some skirmishes afterwards.
6) 7, a nice change of pace with a different enemy.
7) The amulet is picked up automatically by the first unit to go there. Setting it with {PICKUPPABLE_ITEM} might be a better way to do it.


Crush:

2) 7
3) Perfectly
4) Great. A nice surprise, I expected orcs, and was completely wrong.
5) The pikemen, cavalry and archers are invaluable given that you can't recruit them elsewhere. Keeping them alive long enough for your main forces to get there is a challenge. Also, choosing initial recruits (suicide some level 3s, or distract with some runners/dogs), and deciding at which point, if at all, you want to move Lorenzo to a bigger keep.
6) 8. This scenario is almost perfectly balanced. There's a real challenge, but without any frustration.

The first time I played this I got very lucky and managed to backstab the enemy leader on turn 7 before Huric's event fired, but the scenario ends anyway. I replayed the scenario a few times and wasn't able to do it again. It really was a freak of the RNG, but it can happen.

Also, on the world map after this, if you attack the wolf rider nothing happens. He shouldn't be able to reach you, but there'll always be some idiot like me who stands there waiting for a few turns to see what happens when he does.
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Re: Bad Moon Rising & Trinity

Post by averyimaginativename »

Latest BMR+Wesnoth, Easy.

Royal Rumble:

2) 9, or 7 once you've found a good strategy
3) Clear
4) Great. There's a "the story starts here" feel about it. The prelude is over and now the action starts. Lots of questions asked, few answered.
5) Getting the right strategy. Either ignoring time of day, using ZoC well, and pressing a spearhead at Huric at the cost of a few sacrifices, or taking your time, doing it slowly, and letting the cultists and loyalists wear each other down while picking off injured units until the gold runs out works.
6) 9


PIt:

2) Up to the enemy leader 6, catching Scarrion 3-10 depending on luck
3) Clear
4) Good. Slightly uneasy about how easily the Orcs agree to ally with you though.
5) Breaking through the enemy leader to catch Scarrion. Too long, and you've lost the scenario already, but don't find out for several turns.
6) 7 up until the enemy keep. Much frustration during the chase though.
7) If you take too long to break a hole in the enemy keep (or worse, have no dogs with skirmish) you can lose the scenario right there, and there's not really anything you can do tactically to avoid it, it's all down to luck. To avoid this, maybe let the story trigger in the same place as it does now to retain the tension, but then use a moveto for the hexes surrounding the enemy keep to teleport Scarrion to some distance ahead then start the chase from there, so he can always be caught regardless of hold ups at the enemy keep.

Also, the orcs are too willing to ally. Why would an Orc take a human at his word? An extra line of dialogue something like "It's true boss, I saw them fighting humans on the other side of the water"
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Re: Bad Moon Rising & Trinity

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averyimaginativename wrote: To avoid this, maybe let the story trigger in the same place as it does now to retain the tension, but then use a moveto for the hexes surrounding the enemy keep to teleport Scarrion to some distance ahead then start the chase from there, so he can always be caught regardless of hold ups at the enemy keep.
Yeah, something like that could make sense. I'll look into it.
averyimaginativename wrote:Also, the orcs are too willing to ally. Why would an Orc take a human at his word? An extra line of dialogue something like "It's true boss, I saw them fighting humans on the other side of the water"
That could be rewritten, I agree.
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Re: Bad Moon Rising & Trinity

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(I double post to use the quote thing)
averyimaginativename wrote:Also, on the world map after this, if you attack the wolf rider nothing happens. He shouldn't be able to reach you, but there'll always be some idiot like me who stands there waiting for a few turns to see what happens when he does.
The insta-loss doesn't happen unless the enemy does the attacking. If the wolf rider attacks and nothing happens, that is a bug. If you attack, and nothing happens, no bug, though maybe it should be changed for polish.
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Re: Bad Moon Rising & Trinity

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doofus-01 wrote:The insta-loss doesn't happen unless the enemy does the attacking. If the wolf rider attacks and nothing happens, that is a bug. If you attack, and nothing happens, no bug, though maybe it should be changed for polish.
i attacked it, then on it's turn, it attacked me, and died. It wasn't game over either way. Still, it shouldn't be able to reach you unless you stand around waiting for it anyway.


Part three feels like a finished campaign that just needs a bit of polish compared to part two, which feels more like a late beta, so it's not really appropriate to review each scenario separately.

Part three as a whole:

1) Easy, latest versions

2) 7 as a baseline +/- 1 for each scenario.

3) Clear in all cases.

4) Easily the most intriguing I've played, but there's a few holes...In salvation, if Raenna moves to the monolith, Athanta wonders something, but you never find out what. Also the behaviour of Nemesis is a bit odd. At one point, she's sympathetic to Athanta, yet later she sets the explosive off. That doesn't sit right.

Carusoe - what's he about? Why has he followed them? More importantly, how did he manage to follow them through the copper mine? I'm guessing these things are addressed in Trinity though.

5) The hardest part was of my own making - a mega powerful dog. The first unit I recruited in the first scenario of part two, fought every scenario and skirmish, AMLAed to ridiculous health, then he becomes an khthon... Trying to kill Athanta in the same scenario was a challenge, but when she broke through my ZoC it became obvious I didn't have to. Other than those things, keeping the Orc alive on the way up the mountain was the hardest bit of the entire three part campaign.

6) 8

7) Return to the copper mine. The second slog through the same map is the low point of all three parts. Objectively, as an isolated scenario it's done well, and the balance is about right, but having just done the same map in part two with the only real difference being orcs instead of cultists, especially with it being a large map, the result is tedium.


The three parts together overall - there's a lot of commented out bits and "this isn't working" in the WML, but from a players perspective, this is only lacking a bit of polish to be mainline quality.
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Re: Bad Moon Rising & Trinity

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averyimaginativename wrote:i attacked it, then on it's turn, it attacked me, and died. It wasn't game over either way.
Hrm, sounds like a bug then.
averyimaginativename wrote: Easily the most intriguing I've played, but there's a few holes...In salvation, if Raenna moves to the monolith, Athanta wonders something, but you never find out what.
She wonders if making the humans marked or "Khthon-proof" or whatever makes them something other than human. This means Belleros can open the cave, but Raenna cannot. Was I inconsistent in that? (Could be.)
averyimaginativename wrote: Also the behaviour of Nemesis is a bit odd. At one point, she's sympathetic to Athanta, yet later she sets the explosive off. That doesn't sit right.
It wasn't quite how I intended for it to come across, but I see what you mean. I think I can have a fix for next time.
averyimaginativename wrote:Carusoe - what's he about? Why has he followed them? More importantly, how did he manage to follow them through the copper mine? I'm guessing these things are addressed in Trinity though.
He's stitched in there pretty badly, isn't he? I'll admit, he wasn't part of the original plan, and maybe he should just be removed. He was mostly so that Raenna had some useful ally in the final scenarios.
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Re: Bad Moon Rising & Trinity

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She wonders if making the humans marked or "Khthon-proof" or whatever makes them something other than human. This means Belleros can open the cave, but Raenna cannot. Was I inconsistent in that? (Could be.)
You weren't inconsistent, it just wasn't clear.
Also the behaviour of Nemesis is a bit odd. At one point, she's sympathetic to Athanta, yet later she sets the explosive off. That doesn't sit right. It wasn't quite how I intended for it to come across, but I see what you mean. I think I can have a fix for next time.
After the first three Nemesis scenarios of Trinity, I feel I understand her more. She comes across more as "stop the Khthon at all costs, but also open to persuasion about other races roles in the world". This makes the final scenario of BMR just her backed into a corner, but without Trinity, less so.
I'll admit, he wasn't part of the original plan, and maybe he should just be removed. He was mostly so that Raenna had some useful ally in the final scenarios.
I don't think he should be removed - he was one of the questions in the story that you wanted answered. Mystery can be good sometimes too, he doesn't even necessarily need to be explained fully. The only bit that didn't make sense was the copper mine...they leave via an underground river, head through a cave to avoid Nemesis, then traverse a mountain in a snow storm, and he still manages to find them. I know WINR, but that's pushing it.

Having him come out of the shadows to chase after Lorenzon and Raenna (he could even replace the dog), or a temporary alliance with Carghanna and Belleros while they escape then getting lost in the foggy river and not returning until the final scenario would work.
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Re: Bad Moon Rising & Trinity

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averyimaginativename wrote:I don't think he should be removed - he was one of the questions in the story that you wanted answered. Mystery can be good sometimes too, he doesn't even necessarily need to be explained fully. The only bit that didn't make sense was the copper mine...they leave via an underground river, head through a cave to avoid Nemesis, then traverse a mountain in a snow storm, and he still manages to find them. I know WINR, but that's pushing it.
I put in a cut-scene that should help with this (2_05_Orcs.cfg). It may need to be fleshed out a bit more, but I think it helps.
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