A different way to look at the Intelligent trait (SP)

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Bardagh
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Joined: February 19th, 2020, 8:20 pm

A different way to look at the Intelligent trait (SP)

Post by Bardagh »

Yes, a L3 Intelligent unit is generally less powerful (albeit marginally) than one with a different appropriate trait. But consider it from a different angle: There's only so much XP, realistically speaking, to go around. The more Intelligent units you have, the further that stretches, and the deeper your high level roster. Food for thought, since so many people hate on that trait (myself sometimes included).
Elizar
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Joined: July 9th, 2013, 8:13 am

Re: A different way to look at the Intelligent trait (SP)

Post by Elizar »

In multiplayer, there might be "infinite" amount of XP - depends on the scenario and lenght (before someone loses or surrenders), but if it is 1v1, it will probably be over before you get to one L3 (unless your opponent has attrition and income advantage over you) Might be useful in survivals, but intelligent units aren't really necessary - intelligent player is. In teams/ffa? might give an edge in the early-mid, but you probably won't have loads of L3s - also, you generally in MP you need to manage with what you have - sometimes even adapt to fit the traits.
.... forgot there is (SP) in the topic - so, irrelevant
In campaigns, well, it is not really as important - you'll usually have enough high level units in the later scenarios. Maybe too much to recall them all.
For example Httt and Ei
I should probably cruise the mainline campaigns once more to say for sure.

Guess I'll update then, if I find some camp you can go with genial army.
kjn
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Joined: March 4th, 2016, 4:26 pm

Re: A different way to look at the Intelligent trait (SP)

Post by kjn »

Every trait is useful, but not every trait is useful in the same manner.

The main value of intelligent is to accelerate the development of a unit. An intelligent Elvish shaman requires only three kills to become an enchantress or druid, compared to four with other traits. The level up brings an instaheal, and much more tactical flexibility.

Over time, the value of intelligent diminishes, but in short campaigns or in the beginning of long campaigns, intelligent can be very valuable. You don't need it for every unit, but for getting your first healers or leaders or other specialised unit, it's great.
fire-emblem
Posts: 23
Joined: April 16th, 2020, 5:59 am

gotta do the math, but from a cost-benefit standpoint intel trait is the single best quality in any unit in single playe

Post by fire-emblem »

havent seen any surveys or data that says 'most ppl' dont like intel trait

gotta do the math, but from an overall cost-benefit standpoint intel trait is the single best quality BY FAR in any unit in single player campaigns, with very few exceptions
Zrevnur
Posts: 87
Joined: January 11th, 2020, 12:04 pm

Re: gotta do the math, but from a cost-benefit standpoint intel trait is the single best quality in any unit in single p

Post by Zrevnur »

fire-emblem wrote: April 16th, 2020, 5:44 pm havent seen any surveys or data that says 'most ppl' dont like intel trait

gotta do the math, but from an overall cost-benefit standpoint intel trait is the single best quality BY FAR in any unit in single player campaigns, with very few exceptions
You may be forgetting that units cost upkeep?

And in practice there are other relevant issues like some scenarios being easy and others being hard. And whether you end up filling (and never fully using) the recall list or if you end up using the whole recall list for suicide missions.


Edit: In general I also dont like 'intelligent' trait but in some cases its (obviously) the best one.
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revolting_peasant
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Joined: May 29th, 2012, 5:45 pm

Re: A different way to look at the Intelligent trait (SP)

Post by revolting_peasant »

Bardagh wrote: March 3rd, 2020, 7:31 pmthe deeper your high level roster.
Uh, a roster of units missing an important trait: Having relatively significantly lower HP or being 1 MP slow (and we know that 1 MP often means 2 or 3 MP slow, in poor terrain).

Also, the L3 units tend to accumulate some of that finite XP - so unless you refrain from using them to some extent, you aren't really gaining much in that department either.

Bottom line: I want my units dumb.
shevegen
Posts: 293
Joined: June 3rd, 2004, 4:35 pm

Re: A different way to look at the Intelligent trait (SP)

Post by shevegen »

I don't like the intelligence trait. While there may some benefits, I just don't like it.

My favourite trait is quickness by far. While it may not be as powerful, I just
love having quick units in general. It's also often a reason I try to get flying units.

Leadership can be very useful for cheap expendable unit types though.
Ktonian
Posts: 2
Joined: March 25th, 2020, 11:24 am

Re: A different way to look at the Intelligent trait (SP)

Post by Ktonian »

Having it on a a mage or elvish shaman (for example) make it easier to access to cure and heal +8 early. Can help to save some units from time to time and make it easier to other units to level up.
Having it on a elvish captain or a drakan flare make it a LOT easier to colect enought XP to level it up into a Lvl3 leader. The increased damage outpout make easier for Lvl1 and Lvl2 unit to weaken ennemies and deal fatals blow, thus to level up.

Having it on other unit is generally worse than having any other trait.
gfgtdf
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Re: A different way to look at the Intelligent trait (SP)

Post by gfgtdf »

Another way to see the intelligent trait, is that the 20%xp reduction, fully compensated the xp incementation of one default amla, so asymptotically a intelligent unit will (if fed a the same amount of xp) not only reach level 3 faster, but also have one amla (3hp) more, of course this is still less than the ressilant trait, but it also means your unit, given the same amount of xp will fully heal itself one more time than other units do which can also become quite handy.

furthermore in some amla heavy campaigns, this clearly makes intelligent one of the better traits. Afaik i always liked intelligent unit in loti when i played it for exactly this reason- (althogh this was quite some time ago and things might have changed)
Scenario with Robots SP scenario (1.11/1.12), allows you to build your units with components, PYR No preperation turn 1.12 mp-mod that allows you to select your units immideately after the game begins.
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revolting_peasant
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Re: A different way to look at the Intelligent trait (SP)

Post by revolting_peasant »

gfgtdf wrote: June 7th, 2020, 7:22 pmfurthermore in some amla heavy campaigns
None the mainline ones, I presume?...
gfgtdf
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Re: A different way to look at the Intelligent trait (SP)

Post by gfgtdf »

revolting_peasant wrote: June 10th, 2020, 8:42 pm
gfgtdf wrote: June 7th, 2020, 7:22 pmfurthermore in some amla heavy campaigns
None the mainline ones, I presume?...
yes
Scenario with Robots SP scenario (1.11/1.12), allows you to build your units with components, PYR No preperation turn 1.12 mp-mod that allows you to select your units immideately after the game begins.
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patience_reloaded
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Re: A different way to look at the Intelligent trait (SP)

Post by patience_reloaded »

There are also some modifications that make the AMLA more interesting by providing additional abilities or more damage or moves. For these situations, intelligent can become very powerful, since you can get the AMLAs earlier and more of them faster.
Actually, some of these mods can make AMLA totally op, to a point where you start using units that can only get to level 1 so you can get AMLAs for them fast and they become more powerful than your expensive lv3ers (Had a Soulless with some 8 moves and some 60ish hp once iirc).
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