Maximum damage from a single strike, or in a single turn

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Tom_Of_Wesnoth
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Maximum damage from a single strike, or in a single turn

Post by Tom_Of_Wesnoth »

On the Discord server this morning, EoZ, catbegemot, and I were discussing the maximum possible damage that a unit can do in mainline Wesnoth, both with a single strike, and in a single turn.

For the single strike calculation, we arrived at 81 damage.

This involves using a Grand Knight, which deals a base of 17 damage with its lance attack. With the Strong trait, this rises to 18 damage. A combined 50% increase comes from a 25% Time of Day bonus, and a 25% Leadership bonus from a Grand Marshal, bringing us to 27 damage. If we give this Grand Knight Holy Water, changing the damage type to arcane, we can now factor in the -50% arcane resistance many undead units have, bringing our damage up to 40.5. Finally, we add in the Charge ability that doubles damage dealt and received, and we arrive at 81 damage.

This can be achieved in mainline conditions during Eastern Invasion.

In practice, this is limited to 80 damage, as the Ancient Lich has only 80 hitpoints, and no unit with more than 80 hitpoints has the -50% arcane resistance that is so important to getting the number up to 81. Of course, you could always feed the Ancient Lich a stream of sacrifices so he levels up, and gains the extra hitpoints that an AMLA brings... But that's getting into the realms of silliness.
catbegemot was kind enough to provide us with an example of this in action
catbegemot was kind enough to provide us with an example of this in action
For the damage in a single turn calculation, we arrived at 256 damage.

This can be achieved by keeping Konrad at Level One during the Heir to the Throne campaign, and giving him the Sceptre of Fire - an item that grants him a 16x4 ranged fire attack. With the combined 25% Time of Day bonus, and the 75% Leadership bonus from a Grand Marshal leading a Level One, we can double this to 32x4. 1.14 Giant Scorpions have a -100% fire resistance, meaning we can double that number again to reach 64x4 - a total of 256 damage, if every attack hits. In 1.15, Giant Scorpions have a 0% fire resistance, so this method works for 1.14 only.

However, as the keen-eyed among you have surely noticed, the Giant Scorpion only has 40 hitpoints. So while the theoretical maximum is 256 damage, we have to look elsewhere to find our practical maximum damage.

For this, we turned to the Lancer, who can in ideal conditions deal 108 damage in a single turn.

The Lancer starts out with a 12x3 pierce attack, 13x3 with the Strong trait. Add in 25% Time of Day and 50% Leadership and we arrive at 22.75 damage, which we can double with Charge to arrive at 45.5 - rounded down to 45 damage per strike. However, this damage is then reduced by 20% thanks to the Yeti's 20% pierce resistance, giving us an actual damage of 36x3. If all three strikes land, without the Yeti killing the Lancer in retaliation, the Lancer will put out 108 damage in a single turn.

This should be possible during Heir to the Throne. Ideally, you'd give the Lancer arcane damage, but EoZ and I don't think that's possible during the scenario with the Yeti.
I can't be bothered to test this in campaign conditions, but creating the relevant units with the debug console demonstrates that it should be possible.
I can't be bothered to test this in campaign conditions, but creating the relevant units with the debug console demonstrates that it should be possible.
Have we missed anything? Can you beat our numbers of 81 theoretical/80 practical, for a single strike? Can you beat our numbers of 256 theoretical/108 practical, for a single turn? And - most importantly - can you achieve it in mainline Wesnoth?

EDIT: Quick edit to say that with Berserk against a Yeti, you could theoretically deal 142 damage - but the odds of this are so vanishingly small that it might not actually be possible. The Berserker would have to output somewhere in the region of 20-24 strikes, without taking more than a single strike in retaliation. The Berserker never gets more than 50% terrain defence, while the Yeti never gets less than 20%. Also, I don't think a Berserker can ever face a Yeti in mainline. Also, Berserk takes the fun out of it :p

EDIT2: I should also point out that this is using 1.14. Older versions of Wesnoth gave some undead a -100% holy resistance, which can lead to even higher numbers than are possible today.
If presented with the opportunity, I would take great pleasure in becoming a world ruler.

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MathBrush
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Re: Maximum damage from a single strike, or in a single turn

Post by MathBrush »

Very cool!

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Re: Maximum damage from a single strike, or in a single turn

Post by Velensk »

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Tom_Of_Wesnoth
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Re: Maximum damage from a single strike, or in a single turn

Post by Tom_Of_Wesnoth »

Always interesting to see how the game has changed, and yet even over thirteen years it's the Horseman line that remains the best damage-dealer in the game, and it's achieved through giving it holy/arcane damage.

Your old idea of a Yeti with holy water, defending against a Chocobone, would hit for 96 damage these days, which would break the record - but there's nowhere in mainline where that combination is possible.
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Nivanpylte2
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Re: Maximum damage from a single strike, or in a single turn

Post by Nivanpylte2 »

With a chokob's charging on a lvl3 shock trooper in perfect conditions we can get a 100+ damage per strike in retaliation !

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Tom_Of_Wesnoth
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Re: Maximum damage from a single strike, or in a single turn

Post by Tom_Of_Wesnoth »

Nivanpylte2 wrote:
February 17th, 2020, 10:35 pm
With a chokob's charging on a lvl3 shock trooper in perfect conditions we can get a 100+ damage per strike in retaliation !
How did you get to this? I tried this with a strong Iron Mauler, with 25% leadership and 25% time of day, and got 86 damage per strike.
If presented with the opportunity, I would take great pleasure in becoming a world ruler.

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lhybrideur
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Re: Maximum damage from a single strike, or in a single turn

Post by lhybrideur »

Can you have +50% instead of 25% from time of the day with illumination ?

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EarthCake
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Re: Maximum damage from a single strike, or in a single turn

Post by EarthCake »

No. Time of day and illumination ability are not cumulative.

patience_reloaded
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Re: Maximum damage from a single strike, or in a single turn

Post by patience_reloaded »

I see an possible issue with using Konrad in combination with a Grand Marshal: I don't remember where in the Campaign you get to have a unit of the Grand Marshal line. I don't remember gettin one, but I last played the HttT in 1.12 or before.
Therefore: Do you know where you get to have a Grand Marshal in HttT?

dwarftough
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Re: Maximum damage from a single strike, or in a single turn

Post by dwarftough »

Tom_Of_Wesnoth wrote:
February 26th, 2020, 5:45 pm

How did you get to this? I tried this with a strong Iron Mauler, with 25% leadership and 25% time of day, and got 86 damage per strike.
Iron Mauler's base damage is impact 25x2. I guess if you charge at him with Chocobone, you can get enormous retaliation by Iron Mauler.
patience_reloaded wrote:
March 26th, 2020, 3:38 pm
Therefore: Do you know where you get to have a Grand Marshal in HttT?
After you found the Sceptre of Fire and emerged to the ground, move a mermen to the far right of the river, after which you proceed to Cliffs of Thoria (instead of clearly mentioned paths to the north through mountains and to the south through swamps). And in that Cliffs you could find and rescue a Sergeant whom you could upgrade up to the Grand Marshal (if you'd manage to do it until the campaign's end)

patience_reloaded
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Re: Maximum damage from a single strike, or in a single turn

Post by patience_reloaded »

I didn't know about the possibility to go to the Cliffs. That fully explains my issue, thanks.

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