Stuck on NR: Infested Caves

[Laurent]

Hi everybody,

i managed to success in this scenario a few times in Nightmare : that's not so hard. You just need a bit of luck .

Here is the strategy i used :

1. Recruit 2 castles (footpads first then mainly thugs, 2-3 poachers)
2. Block Blue and green trolls
3. Keep 2 footpads with the mage outside the caves : this will attract some trolls and balance the batlle ith the undeads
4. Progress in the main chamber and free the trolls
5. Recruit in the main chamber and attack level 2 trolls blocking the way
6. Block North + South using villages and footpads
7. Place your troops on some fortified positions
8. When you see an opening, rush the east before the dark undeads kill the ennemy troll leader level 3. I was lucky there because the troll leader moved to my old position in the center of the main chamber which allowed me to take his castle wihtout fighting him.
9. Fortify your positions and heal your troops. Do not let a single units behind if it is not necessary : isolated, the unit is doomed. Bring all the survivors to your new castle and defend it at all cost !
10. Upgrade your troops to level 2
11. When you are taking advantage of the undeads (orange white and dark), rush south with your best units (level3) + your leader and get rid of the ennemy leader.
12. Keep defending your castle with the remaining weak units and try to upgrade them
13. Find the dwarves and grab their gold

REPLAY :

http://d01.megashares.com/dl/QRtpr0f/RN ... _partie.gz


Post 2:
https://www.transferbigfiles.com/2a644f ... E-Jve1NUA2

[Crendgrim]

If you want to add something to your post only a few minutes after it, and no one has replied yet, please use the "Edit" button instead of double posting.

[Laurent]

sorry

[taptap]

I manage to win on Nightmare with the migration strategy, though I play it a little differently I don't completely block the skeletons, more skeletons in sight keeps trolls away, and I rather have some units damaged by skeletons than too many L2 trolls in my path. And I keep a different task force in the top left corner (6-7 mixed outlaws with some poachers), actually too much just to survive but enough to get out again later and block blue reinforcements, it is not necessary but helps the main hall balance, but even with this force (several of it levelled up then) it isn't possible to me to push forward confidently and kill blue - without risking heavy irreplaceable losses and failure. 2 footpads and the mage looks luck dependent to me, and the mage is more productively employed with the main force anyway, and he is a big help in pushing the black skeletons back through the bottle neck. Starting with 610 gold I found myself recruiting considerably less than possible (leaving initially over 100 gold), because otherwise I end with just too many - mostly unproductive units eating away income - especially after letting out the whelps and while I am watching the fight in the mainhall without intervening too much myself. I may reduce my initial recruits even further.

It isn't necessary to defend your new castle at all cost, if you are really down with your unit count it is perfectly possible to retreat temporarily to the village cave of the brown trolls and retake the castle later. It is easily defended and the Black skeletons move out and engage with the trolls, then you can retake the castle even with relatively small forces, recruit with your banked gold and hurry down to the black leader. (It happened to me recently and I ended just one move short, so it is definitely possible.) This is the great thing about the migration strategy - it is working without optimal outcome on every front as long as you make it at all to the brown keep.

I would like to achieve more, however. I guess crucial is to take out black very rapidly (before turn 30?) for a front less, higher income and a one-time dwarf-wave and to swiftly retake the main hall. However retaking the main hall tends to be rather tricky and costly. It should be possible to take out at least blue and white in addition. Unfortunately the winning condition - unless you have a shot to kill them all which looks utterly impossible to me - effectively limits your reinforcements when you have most income as you have to leave your keep at turn 37 or 38. Under certain circumstances (an immortal aka 1xp from level up footpad e.g.) can sneak in the white village cave. Then taking out blue and white is perfectly possible. How you get enough units to green and yellow at the same time is unsolved. Any takers? Any comments? Or is it simply crazy to go for more in this scenario?

I admit I love trying around Infested Caves instead of playing through Northern Rebirth, partly because I hate "The Pursuit" as much as I love Infested Caves.

[godefv]

Hello,

yesterday, I managed to win on nigthmare defeating all enemies ! I started with 448 gold, which is really sufficient, and I think the senario is not based on luck at all actually. The only good strategy is migration strategy. I've tried either going North or South to kill troll and undead there locking the main chamber but it is much too slow (it had worked well however on 1.8, now it is 1.10).

The whole point is to first block the 4 nearest enemies with padlocks as soon as possible, to control the flow of undead to bate the trolls on them in order to kill brown trolls leader easilly (really, there was almost no fight against him as all his trolls were at the undeads). The undead near the dwarves was also very easy to kill with some level 2 padlocks and the mage (killed 2 or 3 skeletons each turn). Killing the few leveled trolls in the middle of main chamber and stealling some kills from the undead allow to have level 2 quilckly and easilly.

Controlling the flows of undead and unlokcing the 2 other trolls at the right time, I managed to have the south trolls kill the north undead leader (with some help of my troops who had been sent by the top-left corridor, those killed the north troll leader easilly with the help of 2 still alive leveled padlocks left on the grass). Then I started to attack both trolls and unded in the middle south corridor with the help of the dwarves which kills maybe 5 or 6 units per turn (because they also attack each other and the mage had recovered and come). So I killed easilly the undead and had to cheat a little to kill the last one at turn 44. I sacrificed a lvl2 unit to bate him and killed him with full successfull attacks of 2 padlocks (lvl 2 and lvl 3, normally the troll would have left with 5 hp hiding behind new recruited trolls and no turns left, but I couldn't let him go like that, so I reloaded my save until killing him /*_*\ ).

Before realising that I had time to block the two nearest undead I thought the scenario in nightmare was just impossible (I was quite surprised to see that the strategy I had employed in 1.8 didn't work at all, it would take more like 75 turns I think !) .

This is one of the best scenario I have played !

PS: about the east castle, there is no way you can lose it because nobody attacks, trolls and skeletons only want to fight each other since they are better targets than me. I've even saved units with 5 hp just by leaving a skeleton almost dead so that the troll next to me don't care anymore about me.

[HomerJ]

Replay, or didn't happen!

Other than that, I have to say: Exceptionally well done! Call again at Settling Disputes!


Greetz
HomerJ

[taptap]

Congratulations!

I posted a replay killing 3 enemy leaders on Nightmare in the feedback thread (with significantly negative luck but some insane moves in the end to see what might be possible), so I guess it is possible under optimal conditions and care for detail. I would however like to see the replay as well, because the less risk was taken in crucial situations the more impressive it is. Did you leave units in Camerins village? When did you reached the undead blocking the dwarves?

Eastern Castle: Whether you are attacked very much depends how balanced the fight in the main hall is, if one side dominates by chance (clogging in bottleneck or with trolls killing a skeleton AI which happened once to me) you can be hard pressed - especially when trolls do well and you have some L3 trolls hitting your walls.

[godefv]

Thank you and sorry for the delay...

Here is the replay, you will find only one risky move (very risky) as far as I remember which would have been removed by recruiting more units in east troll castle. The first contact with the south east undeads is at turn 11, but I start attacking them at turn 17 only.

http://www.2shared.com/file/I6yTJtT4/RN ... ir_la.html

[HomerJ]

Watched 14 turns so far and gotta say that you appear to be very lucky. You exposed Tallin to a troll and a rocklober very early in the main chamber, later, Tallin was two hexes away from a pack of 4 trolls/lobbers and had 3 hexes to be attacked from. Yet, the trolls never even tried to kill you.

Will probably edit more in when I watched more.

Edit: You were very aggressive, when I do that, it usually backfires
Tallin on 40% defense was exposed to the Deathknight once, 3 hits would've killed him, but I guess he's passive by design.
But seriously, 16HP Camerin available to two Skeleton Archers (one could suicide) and one Skellie axe (9 dmg * 3) shouldn't survive even on 60% defense. But you get away with it, 12 attacks 10 misses.
In the end it was close, if the last leader would have sent a whelp to attack you you would've lost to turns.

Anyway, still great effort, and I'm intrigued by your aggressive playstyle.

Greetz
HomerJ

[godefv]

Actually I play 2 completely different strategies depending on the situation : attack, or defense. I usually prefer to attack unless I cannot afford the losses. Here, my first thought was that it would be wiser to lock the main chamber using 70% defense hexes and go north and south, but it doesn't work at all. You have to be agressive in this scenario even if it looks like too dangerous at first glance.

Then, before giving oportunities to the enemy, I always looked carefully to his alternatives, and really most moves are quite safe considering weak enemy units too. I think even if enemies were human players, they would often choose safe hits and best chances to get kills over risky attacks even (more) if it has a chance to kill my leader.

But you may be right on some points : I know that chances of being attacked by enemy leaders are low, especially if it is risky (sometimes I am surprised though) ; Camerin should definetly have died but the point is that a few more earlier recruited footpads would have protected him very safely ; I might have taken more risks at the very end to have a chance to kill all leaders because anyway the scenario was going to end well...

By the way, I don't like the scenarios after this one which are very easy after having passed this one so well. I think I could even have killed the orcish king the first time I met him maybe... (I stopped playing after that, I will finish the campaign some day).

Greetz
godefv

[HomerJ]

Points acknowledged, of course you need to adjust playstyle for this kinda challenge.

By the way, I don't like the scenarios after this one which are very easy after having passed this one so well. I think I could even have killed the orcish king the first time I met him maybe... (I stopped playing after that, I will finish the campaign some day).

Greetz
godefv

You would be only the second ever to bring this to my attention, sadly, I don't don't remember the first, and I think there was some minor debuging involved...
Can someone confirm this?

Greetz
HomerJ

[gavenkoa]

Firstly I don't believe that this map can be passed on nightmare... After fail I read http://wiki.wesnoth.org/Northern_Rebirth#Infested_Caves and view replays from this thread as don't understand map goal.

Fist you need capture a fire mage from house in north-west grass corner. Next near turn 4 I start moving to east, near turn 10 reached east troll base and killed east troll boss at turn 11. Just one time reload in order to kill lvl2-troll by mage which block movement of main forces when I stay in middle of map.

At turn 5 I block white/yellow skeletons and open "gates" when trolls will come closer.

From saved money from beggining of play I buy 3 Footpads in the middle of map and have 50 gold in new troll base (I keep positive income...).

Next play is easy.

See my replay for Wesnoth v1.10.

[Pentarctagon]

The last post in this thread was from June of last year. In the future please make your own thread instead of necroing an old one.

[Warrior_SG]

Hey, So since this post was kinda old so thought i should update it. The methods noted down don't really work anymore.

Version - 1.16 (nightmare, no saveloading), 553 starting gold (I think the level might be beatable w gold above 500, if you don't have that much then just redo lvl 1) P.S - In level 1 i made tallin move to the south-eastern castle (the one close to the green orcs) after 1-2 turns of recruiting so u could try that:D

This is how i went about it, in the current versions the brown trolls are a bit too overpowered which makes the migration strategy hard to use (I tried it like 3 to 4 times with no success) . First keep - Only footpads (You would need to capture the defendable locations first and fast) , second keep - All thugs (Contrary to what most people above have said, i feel like thugs are very important for this scenario) the thugs should first fill up the defence wall against the green trolls, and the rest should move north. Third keep - mostly thugs with 1-2 poachers and if need be than 1-2 footpads (Poachers are pretty useful against trolls, not as a weapon (unless u get them to lvl 2) but as weak melee units they attract trolls, which if used correctly can save some of your high experience thugs . Just make sure the poacher wouldn't get hit by more than 2 trolls (ideally 1). So talking about the Scenario the plan is to stall the green trolls, and the orange skeletons. You need to stall the orange skeletons a turn or 2 so that the brown trolls focus on the white skellies first, if u don't do so , then the white skellies create a bit of pressure on you which could make you burn some units. Also you would need to have 2 footpads and 1-2 thugs to prevent the white skellies from reaching you through the 2 tile path along the impassable area. The main force needs to deal with the blue trolls and that too fast. P.S- In the first 1-2 turns make sure u get the archmage in the northern village out (In the replay i shared i messed it up cuz for some reason the one blue troll decided to not go for the footpad closer to it's keep) if u do it then beating the blue trolls would become faster. Once the blue trolls are finished, u would need to leave a small force (of poachers, zlex, 1-2 thugs and perhaps a footpad or 2) which would later go down and deal with the green troll leader and orange skellie leader if necessary. Rest go towards the white skellie king (in my replay a mvp rocklobber got the white king out, but even without that the white skellie king shouldn't show much resistance), now it's upto you wether you wish to try to go through the central chamber and attempt to reach the dwarves or fight w the brown trolls and try to get a total victory. The black skeletons died like all 5-10 times i tried the level by the brown trolls so they shouldn't really be an issue.

Extra notes - I think a different strategy of stalemating the blue trolls near the houses of your keep, totally stalemating the orange skeletons on the mushroom patches so they just can't get out and rushing the green trolls can also work. You would be able to kill the blue trolls although the brown trolls would be hard to kill unless the brown troll king comes out. With the orange skeletons blocked , the white skellie king will most certainly die by the hands of the brown trolls. The overall plan would be to get tallin to move to the green trolls keep and then through the orange skellie king's keep and from there to the dwarven castle avoiding the brown trolls. Winning would depend on wether you can time opening the orange skeletons stalemate perfectly, and also a bit on luck (if the brown trolls get too op then it might be hard to reach the dwarven castle unless you can recruit some new fodder for them. )

NR-Infested_Caves_replay_20230224-111835.gz

(117.8 KiB) Downloaded 73 times

Edit: Here is me finishing the level with the "Extra notes" strategy. As usual the more defensive approach (rushing the green trolls doesn't work cuz the passage is too small with a single village, so waiting for the green trolls to come to u is the way to go) seems to perform better even though wesnoth has gotten a bit better at dealing with it.I did end up saveloading twice and both times it was a troll killing camerin smh. (I should be more careful with unit placements ig). Anyways i finished the scenario at turn 39 with around 600+ starting gold for the next scenario, so this is definitely the better approach. Quick tips for this approach- when dealing with the green trolls you would want to extend your flank to the edge of map cuz wesnoth ai will try to cover the last unit on the flank so this will make them spread thin which allows for a faster cleanup of green trolls, and the faster u clear the green trolls, the more chances u will have to kill all enemy leaders and get the juicy gold carryover. Also while dealing with the green trolls focus on getting atleast one archer to lvl 2 as that makes life much easier (ideally 2). Another tip would be to make sure you don't block the orange skeletons for more than a turn or 2. I figured it out the bad way that if the white skeleton king dies , then the brown trolls just get too op to beat. So u would want to only block the orange skeletons so that the trolls engage the white skeletons coming towards you from the central chamber. Lastly, i think if you just want to finish the scenario there is no real need to kill the green and orange kings. Since the orange skeletons focus more on the trolls,you can just leave enough forces to deal with 1 troll whelp a turn coming from the green king.With that you might even be able to finish the scenario before turn 35 in nightmare. I will continue with my previous save tho since i saveloaded in this scenario and i can't be bothered to play this again when i already have a good enough save to finish the campaign.

NR-Infested Caves replay 20230226-091457.gz

(104.49 KiB) Downloaded 50 times

[Warrior_SG]

Edit - Didn't read @Pentarctagon message whoops. Kinda new here so not sure if deleting my post would solve it lmk tho and i can do it.