Weaker Bats

[boru]

In 1.9.x, all bats now have a new trait "feral." This new trait makes them weaker in villages ... 40% instead of the usual 60%.

This new trait is not in the help file yet, although I did file a bug report.

Also, the footpad attack has been weakened from 5-2 to 4-2.

I just wanted people to know about these features before they jump into their next game.

I know these things are done in the name of balance. It's just easier to adapt to things when you know what's coming up.

[pauxlo]

That bats have only 40% in flat villages is nothing new.
They did have 60% on "terrain villages" (hills, water, etc.), though.

[hhyloc]

Also, the footpad attack has been weakened from 5-2 to 4-2.

Yeah, I was suprised when I read the changelog, long time no unit balancing.

But you missed this:

Introduced a new allignement called "Liminal". Those units fight best during the twilight times of day.

[Glowing Fish]

But you missed this:

Introduced a new allignement called "Liminal". Those units fight best during the twilight times of day.

[/quote]

What units are liminal?
And do liminal units get a penalty at other times of day?

[hhyloc]

If I understand it correctly, no mainline unit currently is "liminal", but this is a new option for unit-maker.

[Skrim]

That bats have only 40% in flat villages is nothing new.
They did have 60% on "terrain villages" (hills, water, etc.), though.

This is a big enough change to make an impact though. Their village stealing would be slightly hindered without 60% on terrained villages (and there are lots of swamp, water and hill villes that they love stealing), and one of their trait slots gets taken up.
----

The Footpads' attack weakening would make a noticeable change when fighting the Undead, with Footpads being so common in that match. Saurians and HI also benefit in that the Footies won't be able to exploit their 10% impact weaknesses any more (5-2 instead of 7-2 for a ranged or non-strong melee attack at night). Other than that, it's just a slight damage reduction.

[boru]

and one of their trait slots gets taken up.

Yeah that is pretty significant.

GF - You're right, I missed the liminal alignment. There's only one line about it in Help. "Liminal units get +25% damage during twilight." I suppose that is dusk? And I suppose they are neutral at other times of day, or something. So basically, a neutral alignment with +25% every sixth turn.

[shadowblack]

I thought "twilight" refers to both dusk and dawn. I guess we really need someone to tell us for sure how it works.

[Simons Mith]

Liminal was initially intended for use in UTBS, I believe. Liminal units get a 25% damage bonus at dawn and dusk, but they don't get any penalties at other times. So better to be liminal than neutral, if you can arrange it.

[monochromatic]

Hm...personally, I don't like that idea. It's very un-KISS to me. I mean, you've got daytime warriors, nighttime warriors, and a couple jack-of-all-trades. Better during dawn and dusk? No penalties? It feels like some unbalanced hack of sorts. You've got units that fight better during day, and units that fight better during night, and especially in lawful-chaotic matches, dawn/dusk serve as a buffer zone. All the units are neutral at that time, so the appropriate units can retreat/charge ahead. It adds some flexibility in tactics. But during this buffer zone, some units can be stronger than the rest? It just doesn't make sense to me.

Personally, I'd keep it in the zone of UMC, but maybe the devs have a better reason for that. I just hope they don't put it in MP....

[Mica]

They aren't. They'd be stupid if they did, and they're not. MP is already pretty balanced, and adding that to MP would give them a lot of work. It's strictly for campaigns and UMC. I'd bet my life on it.

[hhyloc]

Hm...personally, I don't like that idea. It's very un-KISS to me. I mean, you've got daytime warriors, nighttime warriors, and a couple jack-of-all-trades. Better during dawn and dusk? No penalties? It feels like some unbalanced hack of sorts. You've got units that fight better during day, and units that fight better during night, and especially in lawful-chaotic matches, dawn/dusk serve as a buffer zone. All the units are neutral at that time, so the appropriate units can retreat/charge ahead. It adds some flexibility in tactics. But during this buffer zone, some units can be stronger than the rest? It just doesn't make sense to me.

Personally, I'd keep it in the zone of UMC, but maybe the devs have a better reason for that. I just hope they don't put it in MP....

I won't worry about KISS or un-KISS. Personally I think having some units that stronger during the buffer zone is a good thing, although they are normally stronger than lawful, chaotic or neutral units, but it wouldn't be unbalanced as long as the devs don't add them to MP. Some of those units in campaign would be quite interesting.

[Battlecruiser_Venca]

they should be good at harassing retreating units?

[Simons Mith]

One potentially interesting point about Liminal is that such units only get one turn at a time with the bonus, not two consecutive turns.

[hhyloc]

One potentially interesting point about Liminal is that such units only get one turn at a time with the bonus, not two consecutive turns.

Agree, it would add some varieties to the strategy and favor tactics like hit-and-run.