Bats: Flying Wonders?

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Rigor
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Re: Bats: Flying Wonders?

Post by Rigor »

here i got a very interesting replay against Kira1 who built a ton of dwarves/archers and even 2 'serks against bats.

judge for yourself.
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Kira1 v Rigor first part
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Raliven
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Re: Bats: Flying Wonders?

Post by Raliven »

In response to Tonepoet's strategy, going all scouts on the first recruit works well on really huge maps. On smaller maps, though, a good opponent would probably just send everything to your keep right away during daytime and it would probably be over quick for you.

manored
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Re: Bats: Flying Wonders?

Post by manored »

Raliven wrote:In response to Tonepoet's strategy, going all scouts on the first recruit works well on really huge maps. On smaller maps, though, a good opponent would probably just send everything to your keep right away during daytime and it would probably be over quick for you.
Indeed. Also depends of the gold avaible though, for going all scouts on the start may not be such a problem if you have enough starting gold to also make a decent army.

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Pentarctagon
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Re: Bats: Flying Wonders?

Post by Pentarctagon »

i have actually found that in most small maps and some medium sized maps there are some combat units that can easily substitute for scouts. one example would be the elvish archer-it has 6 base movement and 7 if it's quick. the base movement of the elvish scout is 8, only one more than a quick archer. even if I do use scout(s), I find that i dont usually use all of their movement anyway and even though I expand a bit slower, when we do fight, I have all combat units while my enemy has scouts in front that I can easily ZOC and kill (except for griffon riders because of their high attack).
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Eskon
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Re: Bats: Flying Wonders?

Post by Eskon »

Elvish scouts have nine movement, ten if quick, and remain considerably faster than the archer. But the point stands; on smaller, more cramped maps a seven move combat unit will be about sufficient for scouting. Best map for this in my book is Den of Onis.

This option is not available to undead, however. A quick adept is still much too slow for scouting purposes. You have to get ghosts or bats for scouting, and bats are much safer investments AND do the scouting part better.

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Araja
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Re: Bats: Flying Wonders?

Post by Araja »

The scout is better at scouting than the archer and mages with no melee attacks don't make good scouts either?
Well, I supposed all tactics have to start somewhere :roll:

7 gold cheaper and +1 movement on water is definitely better than the ghost for scouting purposes, plus unlike ghosts they can get the quick trait, which is even better :P

Eskon
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Re: Bats: Flying Wonders?

Post by Eskon »

With "the option" I was referring to the possibility of receiving a seven move unit thanks to traits that can look far enough to be an okay scout on small maps. Undead can't do that. Guess I was stating the obvious. In a sense, bats are "flying wonders" since they are the best unit if them all at sheer scouting, and cheap enough that they don't reduce your overall combat prowess too much even if you don't use them for anything else. The availability of the quick trait is just icing on the cake.

Smaller maps often contain less villages and thus reduce the number of units on the field in comparison, which means that the lower overall power of your forces caused by the recruitment of a scout will be more noticable. It can make quite the difference to have a quick drake fighter available instead of a glider, or a quick elvish archer instead of a scout.

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Pentarctagon
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Re: Bats: Flying Wonders?

Post by Pentarctagon »

Eskon wrote:In a sense, bats are "flying wonders" since they are the best unit if them all at sheer scouting, and cheap enough that they don't reduce your overall combat prowess too much even if you don't use them for anything else.
though on the other hand, bats get only 40% dodge on any village on a flat terrain, so ironically they can be significantly weaker on the actual village.
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Eskon
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Re: Bats: Flying Wonders?

Post by Eskon »

Curiously, many maps have swamp or cave villages in regions contested by both sides - flatland villages are usually ones bats aren't supposed to be able to hold, in order to somewhat discourage the good old village stealing tactic.

manored
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Re: Bats: Flying Wonders?

Post by manored »

Pentarctagon wrote:
Eskon wrote:In a sense, bats are "flying wonders" since they are the best unit if them all at sheer scouting, and cheap enough that they don't reduce your overall combat prowess too much even if you don't use them for anything else.
though on the other hand, bats get only 40% dodge on any village on a flat terrain, so ironically they can be significantly weaker on the actual village.
They recover nearly half their health per turn though. Off course, doesnt helps much if they get killed on one :) (What is usually the case, tragically)

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Pentarctagon
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Re: Bats: Flying Wonders?

Post by Pentarctagon »

manored wrote:They recover nearly half their health per turn though. Off course, doesnt helps much if they get killed on one (What is usually the case, tragically)
watching a bat get killed is not a tragic event. for me it is usually one of the best moments of the match, exceeded only by killing the enemy leader, mostly because once they're dead it's been after a long chase behind the front lines where i have been constantly frustrated by their dodge and drain...
99 little bugs in the code, 99 little bugs
take one down, patch it around
-2,147,483,648 little bugs in the code

manored
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Re: Bats: Flying Wonders?

Post by manored »

Pentarctagon wrote:
manored wrote:They recover nearly half their health per turn though. Off course, doesnt helps much if they get killed on one (What is usually the case, tragically)
watching a bat get killed is not a tragic event. for me it is usually one of the best moments of the match, exceeded only by killing the enemy leader, mostly because once they're dead it's been after a long chase behind the front lines where i have been constantly frustrated by their dodge and drain...
Depends of wich side of the bat you are on :)

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Pentarctagon
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Re: Bats: Flying Wonders?

Post by Pentarctagon »

manored wrote:Depends of wich side of the bat you are on :)
very true. i have never seriously played as undead, so maybe thats why. though even if i do happen to play as undead and one of my bats dies, theres a small part of me that that is very happy about it.
99 little bugs in the code, 99 little bugs
take one down, patch it around
-2,147,483,648 little bugs in the code

manored
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Re: Bats: Flying Wonders?

Post by manored »

Pentarctagon wrote:
manored wrote:Depends of wich side of the bat you are on :)
very true. i have never seriously played as undead, so maybe thats why. though even if i do happen to play as undead and one of my bats dies, theres a small part of me that that is very happy about it.
Lol

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Araja
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Re: Bats: Flying Wonders?

Post by Araja »

I rarely want bats to die, mainly because I choose them as my SurvialXtreme character 90% of the time.

They're uses in PvP may be debated, but you can't deny their SX uses. :geek:

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