Blitzkrieg! (the value of speed in Wesnoth)

[Pentarctagon]

but then what happens when your opponent isn't incompetant ?

[thespaceinvader]

That's the point of the quotation...

[Pentarctagon]

oh. guess i misinterpreted it then .

[thespaceinvader]

If you bet on your opponent being incompetent and he isn't, you lose. If you bet on him being incompetent, and he is, you win. If you bet on him being competent and act accordingly, your victory is more likely, even though it might take longer... If he's useless, you can adapt later

[ParadiseCity]

The strategy of blitzkrieg is multi-faceted. It is not composed of village stealing. It is not composed of leader rushing. There are many, many ways to do blitzkrieg.

Well just like any wesnoth strategy you need to be able to adapt when blitzing.

[Pentarctagon]

paradise, you forgot the quotes around the name, it should be [quote="donkey_noob_trash"]

also, blitzing is not particularly adaptive: if it doesn't work well, you just wasted a bunch of gold on scout units. if it fails badly, then you have basically lost the game.

[Turuk]

paradise, you forgot the quotes around the name, it should be

Looks fine to me.

[ParadiseCity]

Lol thanks, forgot to fix that

also, blitzing is not particularly adaptive: if it doesn't work well, you just wasted a bunch of gold on scout units. if it fails badly, then you have basically lost the game.

Well utterly simplified, yes, that is what would happen. If you say it like that, any game is not particularly adaptive. In a wesnoth game, if your attack fails you waste gold, and if using most of your units in an attack, you lose the game. But wesnoth does require adapting, if in smaller ways. These are the things like where you attack, who you attack, and what villages you take. The advantage of blitzing, due to good movement units, is that you can adapt these aspects of your attack very easily.

*Editted for clarity*

[Pentarctagon]

well, as i understand blitzkrieg, you make mostly/all fast moving units for the purpose of catching the enemy off-guard forcing them fight at times/places that are unfavorable to them and also using the extra movement to steal villages to reduce their income. what happens if that doesn't work? you now have a bunch of semi-expensive units that cost more gold than a unit that would be better-suited to actual combat. a wolf rider, for example, costs 17 gold, while an orc grunt costs 12 and a troll whelp costs 13. what i meant was that it is unadaptive simply because you have all the same type of unit, with the only bonus being, "Hey, I got more mp ".

[ParadiseCity]

what happens if that doesn't work? you now have a bunch of semi-expensive units that cost more gold than a unit that would be better-suited to actual combat

Well....thats why you dont fail . But yes, that is a huge disadvantage of blitzing, and the reason i choose not to use it that much.

Sorry that i misinterpreted your statement about being unadaptible, it is true that you do not have a huge choice in units a lot of the time. However, factions vary(such as the high mp drakes and saurians vs wolf rider spam).

[Caphriel]

Having a few scouts around means you just have to make them pay off, either by stealing some villages, or by taking advantage of their high MP to apply concentrated force toward getting some early kills. Blitzing is, in my opinion, all about starting something before the game settles down to the normal lines of units and ToD-driven back-and-forth action. It's about being in position to exploit common weakness of first recruit and village grabbing patterns that favor speed over security. If you recruit a bunch of scouts, and don't do anything with them, your blitz has failed and you're in a weak position

[Pentarctagon]

one thing that i have noticed is that unless your blitz is very successful, it is hard to get it to pay off in the long run. sure, you may get a couple extra villages right away, but then you are trying to hold villages with wolf riders/footpads against spearmen/elvish fighters, both of whom cost the same/less but deal significantly more damage as well as having a ranged attack. a blitz would be particularly hard to hold against northerners, given that their units costs even less.

[silent]

This is purely in theory but...

I'd say that if you did have a failed blitz and had left over several scout units, the way I feel that would be best to make them pay off their cost would be to use them as you would drakes, have them converge from far away into one area where your opponent is striking to even out numbers and turn the tide of battle your way. (I say this since most 1vs1 maps are treated as 2 sided e.g weldyn channel)

Just an idea.

[fareley]

well if you are playing undead and got some bats nothing is over yet even if you may not get any enemy's village/an early kill
i think bats are perfect to swarm and kill a mage (especially at night) and don't cost gold each turn
so even if you did get many scouts it's not all over yet

[Pentarctagon]

while bat spam can be effective, there are so many ways to counter it that winning solely or almost solely with bats would be a rare event.