The "strong" and "dextrous" traits, and you.

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Lone_Isle
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The "strong" and "dextrous" traits, and you.

Post by Lone_Isle »

The strong trait gives a unit capable of melee +1 hp and +1 damage per hit.
Dextrous is a trait that only elven units possess, but it gives the same effect to their ranged attacks.

The +1 damage effect can become EXTREMELY good due to modifiers(bonuses and penalties from Time of Day and resistances), and I'll list some examples below:

An elf archer without the dextrous(5-4 ranged) trait attacks a drake fighter(-10% pierce resistance). The positive modifier it receives turns the damage to 5.5. However due to the way Wesnoth rounds decimal numbers ending in .5, this is rounded down, to 5.

An elf archer WITH the dextrous trait(6-4) ranged attacking the same fighter gets modified to 6.6 per hit. As 6.6 is closer to 7, its rounded to 7.

The difference between a dextrous and non-dextrous archer on a drake is 8 points of damage.

This exact same phenomenon occurs with Elf fighters on units with -10%, or -30% resist to blade.

Strong fighter vs saurian = 7-4 damage. Non-strong fighter vs saurian = 5-4 damage.
Strong fighter vs rogue-type = 8-4 damage. Non-strong fighter vs rogue-type = 6-4 damage.

Consider for a moment what this means: a saurian augur can have at most 27 hp and at least 21.
A non-strong elf fighter has a 0% Chance to Kill against augurs with any combination of traits on any terrain. A strong fighter on the other hand ALWAYS has a non-zero chance of kill any augur. If an augur is on open ground, strong fighters have at least a 13% CTK outright, while if the augur has only 21hp(intelligent,quick) that CTK becomes 34%.

Feel free to list any other amazing things a strong/dextrous unit can do that its weak brethren can not :D
Ladder Name: Idle
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Eskon
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Re: The "strong" and "dextrous" traits, and you.

Post by Eskon »

Regular cavalry = 7-3 at day. Not overwhelming.
Strong cavalry = 9-3 at day. Destructive!!!

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Darkaros
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Re: The "strong" and "dextrous" traits, and you.

Post by Darkaros »

The entire horseman line...

Just... The entire horseman line... Especially with leadership, strong, and ToD. :(

desertdweller
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Re: The "strong" and "dextrous" traits, and you.

Post by desertdweller »

Well +1 damage correlates to a potential extra number of hitpoints reduced equivalent to the number of strikes. In this sense, strong improves a fencer more than a spearman, and both more than an infantryman.

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Pentarctagon
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Re: The "strong" and "dextrous" traits, and you.

Post by Pentarctagon »

and lets not forget that dextrous increases the range attack of the elf shaman line by one as well.
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take one down, patch it around
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randomdragoon
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Re: The "strong" and "dextrous" traits, and you.

Post by randomdragoon »

Flip side, of course:

Cavalryman at night: 5-3
Strong cavalryman at night 5-3 meh :\

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Mordocai
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Re: The "strong" and "dextrous" traits, and you.

Post by Mordocai »

Dextrous is a trait that only elven units possess, but it gives the same effect to their ranged attacks.
You know, i thought this too... but i recently started playing again(life got hectic) and I noticed that in The South Guard campaign, one of my human archers had the dextrous trait. Is this a glitch or did they change it? Oh, and I might be able to find the replay if you want it...

Edit: Nevermind... i can't seem to find the replay... I could swear i saw it though. Oh well, in any case... if anyone else sees this please keep the replay! Unlike myself...

Elvish Scientist
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Re: The "strong" and "dextrous" traits, and you.

Post by Elvish Scientist »

Maybe strong should mean +10% or +1HP, whichever is largers. As it is now, strong affects units with a larger number of weak hits (elvish fighter, fencer) much less then units with a few powerful hits (orcs, drarfish fighters, trolls).

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Pentarctagon
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Re: The "strong" and "dextrous" traits, and you.

Post by Pentarctagon »

it would be kinda wierd though, to say that since a orc is normally strong, a strong orc is much stronger than a normal orc than if you compared an elf fighter and a strong elf fighter.
99 little bugs in the code, 99 little bugs
take one down, patch it around
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A Guy
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Re: The "strong" and "dextrous" traits, and you.

Post by A Guy »

Mordocai wrote:
Dextrous is a trait that only elven units possess, but it gives the same effect to their ranged attacks.
You know, i thought this too... but i recently started playing again(life got hectic) and I noticed that in The South Guard campaign, one of my human archers had the dextrous trait. Is this a glitch or did they change it? Oh, and I might be able to find the replay if you want it...

Edit: Nevermind... i can't seem to find the replay... I could swear i saw it though. Oh well, in any case... if anyone else sees this please keep the replay! Unlike myself...
It's not a glitch if the archer was given to you by an event - those kinds of units can have whatever the hell they want as traits.
I'm just... a guy...
I'm back for now, I might get started on some work again.

uzy5o
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Re: The "strong" and "dextrous" traits, and you.

Post by uzy5o »

Hmm... I just looked through the cgi files of TSG campaign. I didn't find a dextrous human archer anywhere.

Eskon
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Re: The "strong" and "dextrous" traits, and you.

Post by Eskon »

Strong dwarvish fighters rock! Strong grunts and trolls benefit a lot from their strength - it's always good to have some variety of attack strength among your melee unit forces, and every bit of extra melee damage on your main melee unit is wonderful. Trolls aren't that good in the damage department to begin with and really want that boost. You want a unit that hardly gets anything out of being strong? Look at the orcish assassion or the mage...

The one unit that being strong really powers up to the extreme is the drake clasher. Thankfully he isn't stronger than a regular clasher at night.

manored
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Re: The "strong" and "dextrous" traits, and you.

Post by manored »

Usually I dont pay attention to traits, except the "quick" one wich is the best in my opinion. Its not that they dont make enough difference to be accounted for, but because I dont like to complicate things much so I use units the same way indendependly of their traits :)

5dPZ
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Re: The "strong" and "dextrous" traits, and you.

Post by 5dPZ »

manored wrote:Usually I dont pay attention to traits, except the "quick" one wich is the best in my opinion. Its not that they dont make enough difference to be accounted for, but because I dont like to complicate things much so I use units the same way indendependly of their traits :)
Trait is a very important part of game.

Units with different trait must be treated accordingly, in terms of unit positioning when defence and striking order when during offense.

Eskon
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Re: The "strong" and "dextrous" traits, and you.

Post by Eskon »

5dPZ is right. It doesn't matter in the same manner for all units, but for some units traits should partially determine the role in which they are used. It's most noticable for me for elvish fighters. I always rejoice if I get a resilient one, because they need those extra HP to become somewhat decent tanks. Similarly I react to strong fighters - these guys are quite a bit better at laying the melee hurt than the regular ones. If I have enough strong elvish fighters, I almost don't miss wose power at all. Quick fighters are also nice, since they can move just as swiftly as the elvish archers while laying down the hurt in melee instead of ranged against casters and archers, but unless they are resilient too they suck as tanks.

Of course, if you recruit a mage then you won't care about his traits - he is there to deal magical fire damage and otherwise be protected by others, as strong and resilient as he may be. But for the generalist units traits mean a lot.

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