Problems with LOW-Hostile Mountains

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Jozrael
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Re: Scenario Review: LoW 2 - Hostile Mountains

Post by Jozrael »

It is an extremely tough scenario using the SVN version (I don't know how to work SVN so I just d/l'd the scenarios. As a note, I'm getting an error 'no mixed-fighter type available to recruit', but that's probably because I only d/l'd the scenarios instead of every file.).

The dwarves do diddly (in 5 runthroughs they haven't encountered trolls once). The trolls have a swarm of level 2s and 3 level 3s (about 12 units total) and they are quite hard to defend. I have several level 2s out of the last mission but minimum starting gold, and I'm finding this quite difficult to beat (for ENTIRELY different reasons now, it's a much more classic scenario).

fabi
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Re: Scenario Review: LoW 2 - Hostile Mountains

Post by fabi »

Jozrael wrote:It is an extremely tough scenario using the SVN version (I don't know how to work SVN so I just d/l'd the scenarios. As a note, I'm getting an error 'no mixed-fighter type available to recruit', but that's probably because I only d/l'd the scenarios instead of every file.).

The dwarves do diddly (in 5 runthroughs they haven't encountered trolls once). The trolls have a swarm of level 2s and 3 level 3s (about 12 units total) and they are quite hard to defend. I have several level 2s out of the last mission but minimum starting gold, and I'm finding this quite difficult to beat (for ENTIRELY different reasons now, it's a much more classic scenario).
Me too, this level is quite hard (on HARD).
You loose people here, no doubt.
Protect the one loyal unit, Andulias. Only save reload if he dies.
You need archers, they are good in wood (70% defence).
Recruit or recall shamans or higher leveled shamans, not to heal, but to slow the most dangerous trolls.
You also may need some fighters to beat the trolls that have slings, this is new, the unit wasn't available when the campaign was written.
I am not sure if they need to be in this scenario, it is an experiment.
Trolls are bad on wood or in villages.
But most wood tiles are surrounded by hills or mountains, there the trolls have a good defense as well.
In wood this is reversed, trolls are very vulnerable and you can flee from them.
You can use the northern bigger wood strife but this is too far away to grab enough villages and you risk Olurf.
About the dwarves, they don't step over the river before another side steps at their territory. (On hard they never cross the river if only the Trolls have offended them. But they go over the river for the elves.)
It's quite useful to have them on your side, so try to lure the trolls on their territory. (Without doing this yourself, santi already gave a hint how this can be done)
The trolls are going to target the dwarves too, but not that hard as the elves.
One last hint: you don't need to kill all of them. Just bring Kalenz to the signpost.
That can be done without killing everything that moves.

Good luck.

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santi
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Re: Scenario Review: LoW 2 - Hostile Mountains

Post by santi »

Just elaborating on fabi's guidelines:
the loyal unit(Andulias) is only good in finishing off wounded trolls, provided this can be done safely(depends on whether he is lv1 or 2)
As in the replay I refrain from recruiting fighters. The key is to fight from wood terrain and use the elves's high defense. Losses are unavoidable though, so make sure to protect the units that must be preserved
You can win by Kalenz reaching the signpost, but this is in practice hard and you will need the extra gold in the next scenario, so try to kill the troll leader as fast as possible.

Velensk
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Re: Scenario Review: LoW 2 - Hostile Mountains

Post by Velensk »

I was just about to post feedback, but it seems that everything I had to say was already said. My problem was not defenating the trolls (infact the few trolls that came my way died easily to the sorcoress I'd gotten in the last level) However most of the trolls attacked the dwarves, who were ineffective in fighting them, and died foolish deaths. My suggestion would have been to remove Berserker from the recruit list, but it seems that you've already done stuff.

For refrence, I was playing on hard.
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csarmi
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Re: Scenario Review: LoW 2 - Hostile Mountains

Post by csarmi »

I had the same problem but I've beaten the trolls so fast and so soundly that it didn't matter (shaman heavy force with lots of ranged damage if I recall). The problem was that the dwarves were acting very very stupid. They made sure they could spend as many turns in the forest (are there forest dwarves?) as possible - so that they die. Maybe you could finetune that AI to behave in a way that makes sense (instead of the trolls targetting the elves). Also get more trolls: they are too easily killed (I only had to recruit a few rounds). So they attack dwarves AND elves.

fabi
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Re: Scenario Review: LoW 2 - Hostile Mountains

Post by fabi »

csarmi wrote:I had the same problem but I've beaten the trolls so fast and so soundly that it didn't matter (shaman heavy force with lots of ranged damage if I recall). The problem was that the dwarves were acting very very stupid. They made sure they could spend as many turns in the forest (are there forest dwarves?) as possible - so that they die. Maybe you could finetune that AI to behave in a way that makes sense (instead of the trolls targetting the elves). Also get more trolls: they are too easily killed (I only had to recruit a few rounds). So they attack dwarves AND elves.
At which difficult level did you play at?
1.5.6 or svn?

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Wintermute
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Re: Scenario Review: LoW 2 - Hostile Mountains

Post by Wintermute »

Here are two replays from SVN 31247 (after 1.5.6).

Both use the same strategy, and one is lost (because the dwarf leader walked among the trees) and the other is a solid win (because olaf stayed on the mnts this time). Even with the win, Olaf was at 1/2 health from staying on the mountians, so I think it is pretty clear that even one turn in the forest and I lose this game. That is quite frustrating as a player I think. I propose 3 changes, and probably only 2 of these changes are enough:
  • 1) Eliminate zerks from the recruit list. They are just throwing money away against the trolls. They really do nothing else IMO.
    2) Eliminate the forest around the dwarves (turning it into hills or something). Or put it on the north side, so that olaf doesn't run bounce off a troll and get himself killed on turn 5.
    3) Make Olaf stationary.
Another alternative to (2) would be to put the forest along the river, so that the elves are tempted to jump into it to get troll kills (thus angering the dwarves). But it should be 8-10 hexs from Olaf, unless it is north of him, IMO.
Attachments
LOW-Hostile_mountains_replay.gz
Silly dwarves, but no dead leader.
(23.29 KiB) Downloaded 209 times
LOW-Hostile_mountains_replay_DEAD.gz
@%#*!& Dwarves!
(18.42 KiB) Downloaded 174 times
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Zaphod
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Re: Scenario Review: LoW 2 - Hostile Mountains

Post by Zaphod »

Hmm… I found it useful to lure a single troll (or, towards the end where I had better troops, two) out of the hills/mountains into the woods with a unit that could definitely survive the troll's attack, then when my turn came, slow it, and then employ a mix of making it a pincushion, crispy, or hacked to bits. Often it wouldn't die, but it couldn't kill because it was slowed. :eng:
I tried this on easy, v. 1.5.3 and the dwarves actually helped by drawing the trolls into the water then going kamikaze on said troll until there was no troll/dwarf left. It also provided comedic value.
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governor
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Re: Scenario Review: LoW 2 - Hostile Mountains

Post by governor »

Zaphod wrote:Hmm… I found it useful to lure a single troll (or, towards the end where I had better troops, two) out of the hills/mountains into the woods with a unit that could definitely survive the troll's attack, then when my turn came, slow it, and then employ a mix of making it a pincushion, crispy, or hacked to bits. Often it wouldn't die, but it couldn't kill because it was slowed. :eng:
I tried this on easy, v. 1.5.3 and the dwarves actually helped by drawing the trolls into the water then going kamikaze on said troll until there was no troll/dwarf left. It also provided comedic value.
I actually had to recruit a number of scouts to hurriedly rush southward to the island with 2 villages and forest and sit in the water to lure the trolls. After losing a lot of units I was finally able to get through this map.

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Faello
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Re: Scenario Review: LoW 2 - Hostile Mountains

Post by Faello »

Just dled 1.5.6 to check out this campaign, this mission is very frustrating because of dwarven AI - check out these reps - every time about turn 7 or 8 dwarven leader died while battling trolls ( I tried it 4 times, and every time he died this stupid death ).
Attachments
LOWbadtriggeragain.gz
(14.36 KiB) Downloaded 167 times
LOWbadtrigger.gz
(16.64 KiB) Downloaded 193 times
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Akkarin345
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Re: Scenario Review: LoW 2 - Hostile Mountains

Post by Akkarin345 »

I just replayed Bad Trigger. Well, i don't know what wrong my Wesnoth or your replay. After a lot of error messages we got to the fighting. I have never seen Wesnoth do this but mine started doing wierd things. For example at one time when an elvish unit moved to a house it did not go red but went blue. Next halfway through a turn the game would cut it short and go on to the next team. The last wierd event, before i closed Wesnoth, was a troll that decided to defect on to the dwarves team lol! But it was still green coloures and not blue. Maybe my wesnoth has gone funny?

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Faello
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Re: Scenario Review: LoW 2 - Hostile Mountains

Post by Faello »

Nah, this replay is ok, I think your wesnoth went funny/you have different version or smthng :)
The yellow jester does not play
but gently pulls the strings
and smiles as the puppets dance
in the court of the Crimson King.

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Akkarin345
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Re: Scenario Review: LoW 2 - Hostile Mountains

Post by Akkarin345 »

Anyone else tried to watch the replay?

creed of hubris
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Re: Scenario Review: LoW 2 - Hostile Mountains

Post by creed of hubris »

Playing it on Hard, in campaign mode. Having a very difficult time. The dwarves never attack the trolls. There are areas of the river where the dwarves attack me when I go there, but when I get the trolls to enter those hexes the dwarves do nothing. I've tried hiding in the northeast corner of the board, and the trolls crawl over the east bend of the river to get there (which does nothing), but they never go onto dwarven land. I haven't seen them ever enter the dwarven land, just the river, no matter what I do or where I go.

I'll try finishing the first scenario with more leveled units/more money and taking on the trolls without any dwarven help, but there are not a lot of turns to work with, and Kalendz is slow -- if I just have to wipe out the troll leader, as some posters said about earlier versions, that's not so bad, but wiping him out AND getting to the signpost seems quite tough.

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Wintermute
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Re: Problems with LOW-Hostile Mountains

Post by Wintermute »

if you post a replay, someone may be able to give you a better explanation of what is going on (or determine that there is a bug).
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