Trying to beat Rise of Wesnoth.

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The Great Rings
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Trying to beat Rise of Wesnoth.

Post by The Great Rings »

I have spent dozens, perhaps hundreds of hours trying to beat this, and I'm sick of loosing. I have real trouble getting past Fallen Lich Point (I think its called), though I've managed on one try to get as far as the island with the drakes on it. The trouble is, by the time I get that far I'm down to little gold and a [censored] recall list. Worst of all is that I keep losing my dwarf character delaying one of the three orc forces at Southbay. Since by then I've leveled him to a mighty Dwarf Lord (probably my strongest unit), its a real blow.

So, ranting aside, I'm not looking at help with a specific senario so much as I'm looking for tips for the campaing as a whole. Specifically, I'm thinking of replacing spearmen with thugs as the bulk of my force, since they'll be much better against undead and all my enemies are chaotic. Plus, that one extra gold saved for each recruit will add up. Is this a good choice, or is making thugs and their upgrades the coar of my force a mistake?
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zookeeper
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Re: Trying to beat Rise of Wesnoth.

Post by zookeeper »

The Great Rings wrote:I have spent dozens, perhaps hundreds of hours trying to beat this, and I'm sick of loosing. I have real trouble getting past Fallen Lich Point (I think its called), though I've managed on one try to get as far as the island with the drakes on it. The trouble is, by the time I get that far I'm down to little gold and a [censored] recall list. Worst of all is that I keep losing my dwarf character delaying one of the three orc forces at Southbay. Since by then I've leveled him to a mighty Dwarf Lord (probably my strongest unit), its a real blow.
Even on the easiest difficulty?

One thing that really helps is if you save at least two of the HI in the second scenario and level them up.
The Great Rings wrote:So, ranting aside, I'm not looking at help with a specific senario so much as I'm looking for tips for the campaing as a whole. Specifically, I'm thinking of replacing spearmen with thugs as the bulk of my force, since they'll be much better against undead and all my enemies are chaotic. Plus, that one extra gold saved for each recruit will add up. Is this a good choice, or is making thugs and their upgrades the coar of my force a mistake?
Well, personally I guess I'd try to level quite a few thugs. Thieves don't sound very useful because they're so weak, but the footpad upgrades could be nice chaotic scouts. I'd also advice to try to get at least a couple of silver mages, they're really really useful.

Generally, I don't see spearmen as a very good choice in the campaign. Sure, royal guards and halberdiers are nice as tanks against blade and pierce enemies, but for the really heavy hitting grand knights are even better. And arch/great/silver mages are usually much better than any archers, I think. And I think for archers I'd prefer poachers over bowmen.

Throughout the campaign you'll mostly fight orcs and undead, so personally I think mages are one of the best units to have. Most of your enemies are either melee units which you can blast safely and/or very vulnerable to fire/arcane. You'll just have to protect your mages well, but disposable lvl1/lvl2 melee units should fill that role nicely. Don't be afraid of losing lvl2's every now and then for a good cause, just try to distribute the available XP in an efficient manner to replace them.

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Turuk
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Re: Trying to beat Rise of Wesnoth.

Post by Turuk »

As you already know by skimming through the guide page from the other thread, it's a good idea to have a bit of both. The royal guard will work as front-line units to absorb damage fairly easily while the pikemen can help with drakes and the dragon, as well as the wolf riders, but realize that these units are mainly expendable to protect your mages.

Mages are incredibly useful, and you should try to level up at least two of each, silver, white, and red. More is always better. They will help against the undead and even the orcs too, due to their ranged power.

The horsemen are useful, but as stated you do not need them all to be Paladins, Great Knights are quite useful in quickly wiping out a handful of units in one attack.

To answer your question on thugs, they are useful, particularly in the underground levels due to the chaotic bonus. They also allow you to cover your lawful units at night on the regular maps. Do not discount poachers as well, they can provide ranged support at night.

What difficulty are you playing at?

EDIT: Ah, I see zookeeper beat me to the punch, and we are essentially beating the same drum.
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The Great Rings
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Re: Trying to beat Rise of Wesnoth.

Post by The Great Rings »

Turuk wrote:As you already know by skimming through the guide page from the other thread, it's a good idea to have a bit of both. The royal guard will work as front-line units to absorb damage fairly easily while the pikemen can help with drakes and the dragon, as well as the wolf riders, but realize that these units are mainly expendable to protect your mages.
Well, first of all, I posted this before I read the other thread.

Yes, I suppose some of both is a good way to go. That way, I have one chaotic and one lawful for my basic infantry forces. Thugs are better against undead, but spears may be better against orcs (especially the wolves), and have first strike ability.
Mages are incredibly useful, and you should try to level up at least two of each, silver, white, and red. More is always better. They will help against the undead and even the orcs too, due to their ranged power.
I am certainly aware of the value of mages, and usually recruit them in large numbers. However, they rarely survive long enough to level. Protecting my mages is probably the area where I most need improvement.
The horsemen are useful, but as stated you do not need them all to be Paladins, Great Knights are quite useful in quickly wiping out a handful of units in one attack.
I always upgrade to Knights, and Grand Knights if I get the chance. Should maybe give the Paladin more consideration.
To answer your question on thugs, they are useful, particularly in the underground levels due to the chaotic bonus. They also allow you to cover your lawful units at night on the regular maps. Do not discount poachers as well, they can provide ranged support at night.
I don't know, I don't find archery very useful in this campaign. Mages are more accurate and powerful, and slings are better against undead.
What difficulty are you playing at?
Easiest. I'm by no means a great player.
EDIT: Ah, I see zookeeper beat me to the punch, and we are essentially beating the same drum.
Thanks guys.
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The Great Rings
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Re: Trying to beat Rise of Wesnoth.

Post by The Great Rings »

One thing that really helps is if you save at least two of the HI in the second scenario and level them up.
This at least I"ve been doing right. Unless I screw up, I can save all three, and I try to have at least two left by the time I start meeting undead, at which point they become an extreemly valuable asset. I never treat units as expendable, and so I always retreat these back to the towers in the middle of the map in the second senario, and support them with other units until I win.
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Re: Trying to beat Rise of Wesnoth.

Post by cobra »

:shock: Sorry to say this but...there a lot of far more challenging levels that await you. Good Luck, it to me a while to beat the campaign.
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Ask not what wesnoth can do for you, but what you can do for wesnoth.-cobra

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Re: Trying to beat Rise of Wesnoth.

Post by Wintermute »

The Great Rings wrote:
Mages are incredibly useful, and you should try to level up at least two of each, silver, white, and red. More is always better. They will help against the undead and even the orcs too, due to their ranged power.
I am certainly aware of the value of mages, and usually recruit them in large numbers. However, they rarely survive long enough to level. Protecting my mages is probably the area where I most need improvement.
I have two suggestions. First, try playing the game on the hardest difficulty a few times. I know it sounds crazy, but sometimes getting really killed a bit can help you imrpove a lot. It is sometimes easier to see what works and what doesn't when you are fighting for your life. ("wow, I lasted 10 turns longer when I do it like that...") Second, go back to easy and really focus on leveling up a mage ASAP. If you really focus on feeding a mage xp you might be able to get one (on easy) on the first scenario. Or get pretty close anyway. Having a WM early can really help you along.
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Turuk
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Re: Trying to beat Rise of Wesnoth.

Post by Turuk »

The Great Rings wrote:I don't know, I don't find archery very useful in this campaign. Mages are more accurate and powerful, and slings are better against undead
Fair enough, I have certainly had this feeling at times as well. But that might be why your Mages are dying so much? If you are using them as ranged support at all times, it will wear them out by all those slow drains at their hp. I know it's hard to pass up such a hard-hitting ranged unit, but I would advise (as suggested above me) to use archers of some kind to weaken a unit, then mages to finish it off. Of course if there is no ranged retaliation to worry about, you can always use the mages, but just watch what other units in the area might come to attack your mage. Sometimes (and I do this too still), players get so eager to kill off one or two weakened units that they let this weaken the placement of their units.

Just a few more thoughts, hope this helps. Good luck with the campaign.
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Re: Trying to beat Rise of Wesnoth.

Post by docrock »

i am just playing through current TRoW on 1.5.6 on default difficulty as i wanted to get a grip on how the campaign developed. interesting thing is that i had to build up several armies during that campaign, at some points even recruiting more than recalling. started with the common loyalist stuff, then switched to the bandits, developed a heavily mage-based one, then the merman and spearman stuff (against the drakes) to finally return to impact-damage units + mages + swordsmen (in "The Dragon", where i currently am). i have to agree though that keeping the HI alive is a great bonus as they are loyal and soak up tremendous damage. another thing i noticed is that it is great to have 3 healers with you (currently the hero-healer as MoL and two white mages) as they make it possible to just sit out the first waves and then counterstrike quickly without having to spend too much time on healing, thereby always finishing a few turns earlier and having really nice starting gold most of the time.
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Re: Trying to beat Rise of Wesnoth.

Post by Glaucon »

For mages you really need only three to four white mages max. All others should be Silver mages mainly for utility purposes. You'll want to choose silver because of the huge campaign maps that make teleportation much more useful than extra damage. There's also the fact that the Great mage costs 4 gold per turn for very bland movement and it's also likely to be an exp hog, killing anything it attacks.

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Re: Trying to beat Rise of Wesnoth.

Post by Zaphod »

My advice may be a little outdated, as I still use 1.4.3, but I make a point of being nice. :D
I generally try to level up 3 Bowmen and 3 Poachers, because l3 bowmen do quite a lot of range damage during day, and at night can serve as a meatshield if necessary. Poachers get 60% def in forests, and both the l3s are one-of-a-kind for your available units in the campaign. The huntsman can pick up the ranged fight with a marksman attack @night, and also sit in swamps if necessary. Rangers are my personal fave, because they get 60% def in hills, swamp, and forest, have quite good melee (at night) for an archer, and get not only an increased movement from lvling, but full movement on said terrains.
In campaigns, your units will die. I often fall into the habit of treating nothing as expendable, and inevitably use a lot of auto-saves. :oops: On the one hand, using this method gets lots of gold, which becomes particularly hard to get after a while. On the other, you might find yourself desperate when your enemy gets lucky, gravely injures the high-level (and small) core of your army, and is starting to find a way to your healers+villages where said units are kept. Believe me, I know. It's tough to watch your brave cannon fodder die, but in the final scenarios where you may be facing 4+ leaders, you'll be glad for the help.
Just my $0.02.
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docrock
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Re: Trying to beat Rise of Wesnoth.

Post by docrock »

For mages you really need only three to four white mages max. All others should be Silver mages mainly for utility purposes.
i do agree on the usefulness of silver mages, having them assasin an enemy leader is just always a great sight. though in those four scenarios around the ka'lian i was thankful for the extra damage the great mages provided, especially in "the dragon" and "lizard beach", which are imho a pest to play on 1.5.6.
Rangers are my personal fave
agree fully. they are just great at picking at the wolf-riders and preparing the kill for another unit in this campaign.
but in the final scenarios where you may be facing 4+ leaders, you'll be glad for the help
actually during the scenarios after the trials of the ka'lian i did not even bother to recall anyone below lvl2. i had kept all 3 HI alive (iron maulers by then of cause) and they together with three paladins, two grand knights, three white mages, three great mages and a silver mage were the core of my army. rounded out only by said rangers and a few fugitives. basically i was just running over the maps in a closed hedgehog and killed one leader after the other. if actually some gold was available i filled up with lvl2s (bandits + swordsmen) because of their high number of attacks which just helps in pulling enemies from villages and castles ending up with the mages almost cleaning out whole castles in one turn with their help. AMLA galore.
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