is "fast" a bonus or malus ?

sparr · Post by **sparr** » July 20th, 2007, 12:19 am

In every campaign, I would set my units to ALWAYS be quick if I could. quick+strong for melee units, quick+resilient for anyone else. The difference most people overlook is that it allows you to move your front forward 10-100% faster, depending on units and terrain, and that turns into massive gold bonuses for later levels. More gold means more units, and I will take five quick units over four non-quick any day.

Elvish Scientist · Post by **Elvish Scientist** » July 20th, 2007, 8:02 am

Velensk wrote:Of all my units I least prefer mages to be quick, because it makes them even easier to kill (especialy at higher lvls) and keeping your lvled mages alive is an important thing in campains.

I wish you much luck with your non-quick mages in mountains (trolls!) (not counting water and marshes). They will move one step per turn, which makes them completely useless. In caves, hills and forest quick trait means 3 movements instead of 2, still very significant, as this are terrain types where you find foes that you need to attack with magic.
Quick is a trait that is extremely useful. Of course, on grass the drawbacks are more important. That is why it is good to recall your mages selectively, depending on the scenario. In MP, if you have a few mages, you can choose where to use your mages depending on their trait.

Elvish_Pillager · Post by **Elvish_Pillager** » July 20th, 2007, 2:57 pm

sparr wrote:In every campaign, I would set my units to ALWAYS be quick if I could. quick+strong for melee units, quick+resilient for anyone else. The difference most people overlook is that it allows you to move your front forward 10-100% faster, depending on units and terrain, and that turns into massive gold bonuses for later levels. More gold means more units, and I will take five quick units over four non-quick any day.

I'll stick with my strong+resilient units. Strong and resilient help plow though the enemy faster, and since most scenarios have a lot of fighting in them, winning the battles sooner is just as important as getting to the battles sooner,

Macjack · Post by **Macjack** » July 26th, 2007, 9:18 pm

i like units if they have all the same movement points

Post by **taro** » July 26th, 2007, 9:42 pm

Elvish Pillager wrote:
sparr wrote:In every campaign, I would set my units to ALWAYS be quick if I could. quick+strong for melee units, quick+resilient for anyone else.
I'll stick with my strong+resilient units. Strong and resilient help plow though the enemy faster, ..

It's always a good sign if people disagree which trait (combination) is the best. If all would agree about the best trait the traits would be imbalanced

.

nebula955 · Post by **nebula955** » July 27th, 2007, 12:49 am

some may seem to be better than others though....
ie one can have an army of s/r units, but not an army of q/i units obviously, A mix of traits are necessary...and that does work out usually.

energyman76c · Post by **energyman76c** » July 27th, 2007, 5:40 am

nebula955 wrote:some may seem to be better than others though....
ie one can have an army of s/r units, but not an army of q/i units obviously, A mix of traits are necessary...and that does work out usually.

why not? most of my units are quick/intelligent. S/r may look good in theory. But they really suck if they can only move a hex/round. So IMHO an army with only s/r units is screwed. The enemy can run cycles around them and hit when he want where he want.

Sorrow · Post by **Sorrow** » July 27th, 2007, 6:09 am

Well considering zone of control, and the fact that if you chase something down with a quick unit that wasn't zoc protected, the quick unit is pretty much dead.
Then there are quick drakes which basically be come giant slabs of easily killed meat.
Quick mages could be useful if they didn't lose the HP, the HP loss makes it so that even the tiniest amount of unlock means the mage is pretty much dead. Since enemy units can shuffle past and cough in their the mage's direction and it dies.

Quick goblin spearmen shouldn't even be allowed, unless you can use them as firewood and get some sort of bonus out of that.

Every time i get a fast scout i gloat about how far it can go, of course it doesn't help that if he uses that range he is in enemy territory and can get zone of controlled half the time.

I can count the number of times i've been glad about getting quick on one finger.

energyman76c · Post by **energyman76c** » July 27th, 2007, 6:32 am

Sorrow wrote:Well considering zone of control, and the fact that if you chase something down with a quick unit that wasn't zoc protected, the quick unit is pretty much dead.
Then there are quick drakes which basically be come giant slabs of easily killed meat.
Quick mages could be useful if they didn't lose the HP, the HP loss makes it so that even the tiniest amount of unlock means the mage is pretty much dead. Since enemy units can shuffle past and cough in their the mage's direction and it dies.

Quick goblin spearmen shouldn't even be allowed, unless you can use them as firewood and get some sort of bonus out of that.

Every time i get a fast scout i gloat about how far it can go, of course it doesn't help that if he uses that range he is in enemy territory and can get zone of controlled half the time.

I can count the number of times i've been glad about getting quick on one finger.

that only shows, that you can't use the quick trait.. you are not very well versed in 'mobile' warfare, are you?

Konrad II · Post by **Konrad II** » July 27th, 2007, 11:13 am

I'm really not sure, but I think he's being either ironic, or that if he can "count" those times it means there are very few times where it was useful to him.

nebula955 · Post by **nebula955** » July 27th, 2007, 2:37 pm

wtf is this with "running around me"? I'll come with an ARMY and take all of your villages from ur 20hp q/i units and sure you can "run around me" but eventually I'll get a BIGGER army and you wont have that many places to "run around" with. And when you "strike", I'll strike back the next turn...this isnt a gurilla warfare....you attack you get zoced and killed the next turn.
Unless of course you're speaking of playing against the ai in which case that probably doesnt matter.

energyman76c · Post by **energyman76c** » July 27th, 2007, 5:25 pm

nebula955 wrote:wtf is this with "running around me"? I'll come with an ARMY and take all of your villages from ur 20hp q/i units and sure you can "run around me" but eventually I'll get a BIGGER army and you wont have that many places to "run around" with. And when you "strike", I'll strike back the next turn...this isnt a gurilla warfare....you attack you get zoced and killed the next turn.
Unless of course you're speaking of playing against the ai in which case that probably doesnt matter.

my quick units take a lot more villages in a lot less time. And while you are going forwards 1hex/round the quick units will do 3... and be long away before your much smaller army will ever reach them.

Elvish_Pillager · Post by **Elvish_Pillager** » July 27th, 2007, 6:11 pm

Dude -

In Wesnoth, normal units tend to move about 5 hexes per turn.

TL · Post by TL » July 27th, 2007, 6:18 pm

Elvish Pillager wrote:Dude -

In Wesnoth, normal units tend to move about 5 hexes per turn.

He's referring to heavy terrain. Because of course balanced maps hardly ever have any roads or grassland for units to move on at all so quick units are always moving 1.5 to 2 times faster than non-quick units. Because that's how MP maps actually work, really. It's not like he's using an isolated best-case scenario as a reference for how the quick trait works out in actual practice, because that would just be silly.

Elvish_Pillager · Post by **Elvish_Pillager** » July 27th, 2007, 6:30 pm

TL wrote:Because of course balanced maps hardly ever have any roads or grassland for units to move on at all

For your information, on most official Wesnoth maps, grassland is the most prevalent terrain.

TL wrote:so quick units are always moving 1.5 to 2 times faster than non-quick units.

On normal maps, you don't tend to see large patches of the same terrain close together. The variance can just as easily make quick units move no faster than non-quick ones.

TL wrote:It's not like he's using an isolated best-case scenario

He certainly isn't using a best-case scenario: Saying that Quick units ever move three times as fast as their non-Quick counterparts is better than the best case.