A question about ctr v and clr b

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Spanner
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A question about ctr v and clr b

Post by Spanner »

Newbie here.

How do you read "Show enemy moves" (cltr-V) and show "best possible enemy moves" (cltr-B)?

I'm still not quite sure, but from the one liner in the manual says the
former shows where the enemy could move (taking into account ZoC) while the latter (manual calls it possible enemy move) does not take into ZoC. Is that right?

Kind of counter intutive, since "best possible enemy moves" isn't really possible?? the addition of the word "best" doesn't help. I initally thought "best" means what the computer considered best which makes no sense...lol

While I had no problems interpreting the darkened square areas (unreachable right?) , what do the numbers represent? What about lighted square with no numbers?

I'm guessing that the lighted square with no numbers is the same as 1 right? why not just put 1 in there? Confused the heck out of me.

If that is correct, what do the numbers represent?

Are they the number of units that can move to that hex? Or the number of units that can attack that hex? I'm guessing the former?

I don't think there is that much of a difference usually in terms of trying to estimate how vulnerable a unit will be on that hex, but i'm curious.

But I was hoping for though is that the number in the hex shows the number of enemy units that could move to the surround hexes and attack that hex in one round.

In other words, what I want to know is, if I move a unit to a certain hex, and the computer is 100% determined to attack it , how many attacks from different units would I need to defend against.

It doesn't matter if the computer has 10 different units that could move to that hex, it doesn't matter if the computer has 10 different units that could
move to 2 adjecent hexes.

Assuming no kills on counterattack , if there are only 2 neighbouring hexes that the AI could move to , my unit only needs to stand up to 2 attacks from these 2 hexes. So having the number 2 is all i want to know.
in terms of whether i should move the unit there?

Is that too difficult to do?

Lone_Isle
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Post by Lone_Isle »

I am also curious about this function. Could a dev please explain in exact terms what "show enemy moves" represent?

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Viliam
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Re: A question about ctr v and clr b

Post by Viliam »

Spanner wrote:Kind of counter intutive, since "best possible enemy moves" isn't really possible??
But if may become possible, if you:
1) move your units now during your turn
2) enemy succeeds to kill some of your units in his turn, so his other units can proceed without being ZoC'd.
Spanner wrote:what do the numbers represent? What about lighted square with no numbers?
No number = number "1". It means how many opponent units can move to that hex.
Spanner wrote:I don't think there is that much of a difference usually in terms of trying to estimate how vulnerable a unit will be on that hex
Generally the unit is not more vulnerable if it can be attacked by more units from the same hex... because it can be attacked only by one. However as a visual tool it helps. The number warns you to consider more enemy units which can move next to you and attack you. Maybe the closest one, which you easily notice, is a weak unit, but there is further some stronger unit, which can move there too.

Also if there are two highlighted hexes next to your unit, without numbers, it very often means that the unit which can move to those two hexes is the same unit. (Not always, but often.) The number wans you that your unit can be attacked by multiple units.
Spanner wrote:Assuming no kills on counterattack , if there are only 2 neighbouring hexes that the AI could move to , my unit only needs to stand up to 2 attacks from these 2 hexes. So having the number 2 is all i want to know. in terms of whether i should move the unit there?
When you see that this hex has 2 highlighted neighboring hexes, you know you can face at most 2 attacks. If both hexes are without numbers, just check whether both are in the reach of the same enemy unit -- if yes, it is one attack only. Moving cursor above enemy units should show moves of that unit.

Spanner
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Re: A question about ctr v and clr b

Post by Spanner »

Viliam wrote:
Spanner wrote:Kind of counter intutive, since "best possible enemy moves" isn't really possible??
But if may become possible, if you:
1) move your units now during your turn
2) enemy succeeds to kill some of your units in his turn, so his other units can proceed without being ZoC'd.
Yes of course. My understanding though is "best possible enemies moves" never changes regardless of what *you* do on your turn when you check, because it just totally ignores ZoC.

Don't get me wrong I think the function might be useful sometimes if you totally absolutely have to ensure your commander is safe, and you are not going to risk a long shot of someone killing off a unit to clear ZoC and then another to romp in and kill your commander.

It's just that I think it should be renamed to something more descriptive. Like Possible enemies moves (ignoring Zone of control).
Spanner wrote:what do the numbers represent? What about lighted square with no numbers?
No number = number "1". It means how many opponent units can move to that hex.
Thanks , why not just put 1 then?
Generally the unit is not more vulnerable if it can be attacked by more units from the same hex... because it can be attacked only by one.
True. And as you say if a hex has 8 different possible units that can move there, chances are one of the 8 is likely to be your nemisis as opposed to a hex where the AI only has 1 choice. :)
Spanner wrote:Assuming no kills on counterattack , if there are only 2 neighbouring hexes that the AI could move to , my unit only needs to stand up to 2 attacks from these 2 hexes. So having the number 2 is all i want to know. in terms of whether i should move the unit there?
When you see that this hex has 2 highlighted neighboring hexes, you know you can face at most 2 attacks. If both hexes are without numbers, just check whether both are in the reach of the same enemy unit -- if yes, it is one attack only. Moving cursor above enemy units should show moves of that unit.
Seems a bit round about. What if there are 3 highlighted hexes around the hex you want to be on? 4? What general rules do you have for that in deciding the answer then? Would it depend on what specific numbers were on the neighbouring hex?

Spanner
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Post by Spanner »

Sorry for the newbie questions

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Zhukov
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Post by Zhukov »

I rarely use these options, prefering to simply check each enemy unit with a mouseover.

However one big use for the 'best possible enemy moves' thing is that it shows the enemy's visual range in an MP game with fog. Handy.

Spanner
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Post by Spanner »

Zhukov wrote:I rarely use these options, prefering to simply check each enemy unit with a mouseover.
Okay. Good tip.

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Viliam
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Re: A question about ctr v and clr b

Post by Viliam »

Spanner, don't get me wrong. I am not always trying to say that the features are good as they are now. I am just explaining how can one possibly use them. Actually, before reading this topic, I didn't even know there are two different functions to show enemy moves... :oops: I used one of them, probably the one which recognizes ZoC, because... well, because I found that shortcut on the keyboard, and it looked cool. ;-) Moving mouse cursor above enemy units is useful, but sometimes I just want a quick overview about which hexes are generally safe and which are not.
Spanner wrote:what do the numbers represent? What about lighted square with no numbers?
...
Thanks , why not just put 1 then?
Ok, I will defend this one. For me, the greatest difference is between values 0 and 1, or 1 and 2... other differences like between 3 and 4 are not so much different. The difference between 0 and 1 is highlighted hex vs not highlighted. Difference between 1 and 2 is no number vs number 2. It is easier to visually get this difference, than to get the difference between numbers 1 and 2. When you do not pay attention to some part of map, you could confuse 1 and 2, but you cannot confuse no number and 2. (There is a chance to confuse 2 and 3, but as I said, the difference between 1 and 2 is more important than between 2 and 3.) IMHO the only disadvantage for not displaying number 1 is... that it needs an explanation.
Spanner wrote:Sorry for the newbie questions
No need to apologize. If these things were unobvious to you, they were probably unobvious to some other people too... so they can now benefit from your question without having to ask themselves. Also questions like this are a good feedback that some things should probably be better explained... somewhere (GUI? tutorial? manual? wiki?).

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Re: A question about ctr v and clr b

Post by irrevenant »

Viliam wrote:
Spanner wrote:what do the numbers represent? What about lighted square with no numbers?
No number = number "1". It means how many opponent units can move to that hex.
I found this awkward too. Normally highlighting is fine, but when the screen is a sea of numbers, the highlighted hexes just don't stand out as much as the numbers to me.

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